The fun part about flying 5 ships is that you can *gasp* block a lot of stuff.

And yes this phantom player is good. He missed top 8 at our last store championship by 3 points. We were messing around. Oh no, someone flew echo without veteran instincts. Did you see the part where I flew 2 (TWO!) interceptors without ptl. That's supposed to be a death sentence.

For people saying if the Phantom is flown correctly it can't be stopped, its been my experience that any match up in X-Wing is usually won by the player that makes the least number of mistakes. As a result, I don't think its a meaningful distinction. If I fly a swarm perfectly and my opponent makes one mistake with his Phantom, I win. If my opponent flys a Phantom perfectly and I make one mistake with my swarm, he wins.

And yeah Echo is a beast, I flew against a good echo player while I had Intelligence Agent. Even after looking at his dial, I had no idea where he was going to end up (Okay, I generally could narrow it down to 3-4 locations, but still). Now to tie this into the above paragraph, the reason I lost that game was because I made the mistake of prioritizing his Decimator. I should have taken down the Phantom earlier in the game when he would have issues dodging my HLCs at range and just cleaned up the Decimator later on.

He beat an Expose/Weapon Engi Echo in a very casual, goofing around match and he acts like Phantoms aren't all that hard to kill... yeah.

I've killed plenty of Phantoms before with list not designed to kill Phantoms, but it was because my opponent made a silly/suboptimal move and put himself into harms way. Also dice were a bit in my favor a few times. I've also played against good players fielding Phantoms and have had my squad wiped while barely even knocking a shield off the thing.

The fun part about flying 5 ships is that you can *gasp* block a lot of stuff.

And yes this phantom player is good. He missed top 8 at our last store championship by 3 points. We were messing around. Oh no, someone flew echo without veteran instincts. Did you see the part where I flew 2 (TWO!) interceptors without ptl. That's supposed to be a death sentence.

Are you confident enough to play this against any other player?

I'm up for a vassal game on the weekend hopefully

(wife had a baby so schedule is little wonky)

Idk he missed top 8 So how does that make him good?

I question this

I'm not trying to come off rude

But i don't think that it is so easy as you sat.

Ya you have 5 ships but Imo you won't have 5 for long to block with

I'm more than happy to have a game with the exact list you used against your buddies echo and krassis

Best two out of three

May not get to play all in one night, but two out if three so one can adapt to the other, learn from mistake and know it's not just a fluke win

If I lose, I got no problem saying good game and that it us easier to kill

But if I win then I can say it's not as easy to kill a Phantom as you say

Btw I'm no excellent player or anything, but i don't know your opponents so as far as I know they could be great, or just terrible, but i know I've done well with phantoms

A lot of people don't have the time to practice or even just play a bunch and, unfortunately, that's the only way to "git gud". Problems arise when these same people whine instead of realize that they just aren't very good. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! Hells bells, people don't get participation trophies in real games of skill.

Nowhere did he say "phantoms suck, all of you suck, I am the greatest, bow before me". Many of you have projected this on to him. Phantoms are good, very good, ships, not unbeatable meta-killing monsters. THAT was what he said. Many of you are cherry-picking the Echo without even mentioning the Whisper he mentions three post down because no one reads the thread anymore. And as for the echo being "non-optimal", in the hands of a good player that echo could clean up in the 2-3 ship meta. Two locks so after killing the first you just turn and blow the other away with a focus+target locked 4 dice shot or a TL+expose 5, 6 if rage 1, dice shot. Expose obviously was to be used when the opponent hadn't a shot, a frequent occurrence with phantoms, or the fore mentioned range one shot. 6 target locked dice will blow almost anything away and if you only have 2-3 ships...? Not "optimal", still good in the hands of a good player.

Why am I even defending Mr. white here? All of these things are obvious, and just prove the old saying about arguments on the internet.

people have skipped over the fact that adv cloaking device still worked against 80% of my list.

unfortunately, i dont have vassal. i also do most of my internetting from mobile, so i likely wont be bothered to download it.

Congrats on your tournament result. My advice ranking for how to defeat phantoms would be:

1. Induce stress - this really limits cloaking and/or movement options.

2. Turret weapons with full range 1-3 ability - you can slide in behind a YT with no range 1 attack, but you have to stay within range to attack obviously, so this always puts your phantoms at risk of bad dice or being decloaked, or both.

3. Higher pilot skill - You will get caught decloaked when your opponent has PS 10+.

4. Block the decloak - this is easier than blocking the subsequent move.

5. Cover the board with firing arcs, especially from behind where the phantom just was - Echo can slide back a bit, but Whisper Is always moving forward somewhat.

These are tactics that make me worry about sudden death when flying a phantom. Bad dice rolls and crits help too, but you can't count on those.

Well that is really to bad.I use my phone on here all the time, but i do use vassal on my laptop

I would just like to see this tactic work for myself because I don't think it's something I'd put my money on.

I won't doubt it wouldn't work, I mean it is possible for a rookie to get a range 3 shot through an asteroid and score hit hit crit, and echo roll all blank, and get dealt direct hit. I've seen this, but i don't think it's something that would work as much as you say it does.

Sorry but I'll remain sceptical till shown other wise.

Ya advanced cloak is good, but your opponent probably has no defense modifiers.

He is using his action to expose which reduces his agility, and weapon engineer to get a lock,

Rolling 3-4 dice with no focus is more likely to flop

Which is why i use recon specialist on echo.

Especially in a two ship build

Well that is really to bad.I use my phone on here all the time, but i do use vassal on my laptop

I would just like to see this tactic work for myself because I don't think it's something I'd put my money on.

I won't doubt it wouldn't work, I mean it is possible for a rookie to get a range 3 shot through an asteroid and score hit hit crit, and echo roll all blank, and get dealt direct hit. I've seen this, but i don't think it's something that would work as much as you say it does.

Sorry but I'll remain sceptical till shown other wise.

I've done it multiple times, with multiple generics, against multiple phantoms.

So I click on this thread because the title promises actual tactics, but instead it's just bragging about recent victories. Anyone have actual tactics to discuss here?

So I click on this thread because the title promises actual tactics, but instead it's just bragging about recent victories. Anyone have actual tactics to discuss here?

Read the thread. Tactics are discussed literally three posts up.

Well that is really to bad.I use my phone on here all the time, but i do use vassal on my laptop

I would just like to see this tactic work for myself because I don't think it's something I'd put my money on.

I won't doubt it wouldn't work, I mean it is possible for a rookie to get a range 3 shot through an asteroid and score hit hit crit, and echo roll all blank, and get dealt direct hit. I've seen this, but i don't think it's something that would work as much as you say it does.

Sorry but I'll remain sceptical till shown other wise.

I've done it multiple times, with multiple generics, against multiple phantoms.

All we have to go by is what you say.

You said they are good, but your last opponent didnt make top 8

So that is good? What's tour definition of good? Vs say my definition?

Not trying to insult, but understand that what you suggest doesn't sound like a true tactic against Phantoms.

I've killed lots as well, but that doesn't mean those games were true counters. But more on capitalizing on my opponents mistakes

Killing echo with two academies was not because I outflew him, or anything, he just flew in a bad spot counting on the green dice which statistically he should have lived.

Does that mean my list in that game was a optimal anti phantom list.

I've also destroyed players who don't know how to fly phantoms well. In more than one game.

Again does that mean my list was anti phantom? No. They just don't get the mechanics well. But they do great with other ships.

You see what I'm getting at.

At least if I could play you, I could see for myself how well your tactics would work. Because as of now I don't believe it. Again not trying to be offensive or rude. I'm just saying how I see it.

At least if I lost, then I could say ya, your right. But I guess I'll never know.

So again I'll remain sceptical

Why not post a video showing this. At least that way people could see how well it works

A picture is worth a thousand words

So I click on this thread because the title promises actual tactics, but instead it's just bragging about recent victories. Anyone have actual tactics to discuss here?

Read the thread. Tactics are discussed literally three posts up.

The op gave no tactic at the start of this thread

As so the title suggests

But when asked that was his reply.

One bank and slow play

Pretty vague

Weapon's engineer is an odd choice...

Weapon's engineer is an odd choice...

It grants stronger action economy in junction with expose and Fire control system.

He missed top 8 by 3 points. That's just as good as top 8 and you know it.

I then beat another whisper to make the top 4 using a handful of generics, but yet again, everybody seems to be avoiding that point.

No missing top 8 is not as good as top 8.

Imo he would have made top 8

I'm not ignoring the fact you beaten a whisper build, but again how good are your opponents?

Maybe you are that good with generics, Idk.

I can start a post saying phantoms beat all lists because I never lost once playing with them. Does that mean they are the best, or maybe my opponents were not that great

How would you know since you never player me, or know my opponents.

Well its the same thing here.

Your post is actually more of a bragging post instead of how to destroy phantoms.

Because you never went into any detail in your opening post.

And your only tactics is do one banks and slow play

Sorry but that is a pretty vague tactic

Edit

Also since you seem so confident that generic xwings can beat them, I question how good your opponents are With phantoms. I'm not questioning your skill.

I'm familiar with both the OP and the opponent he's speaking of flying the "sub-optimal" Phantom. If there's one guy in the local meta that knows how to fly a named Phantom, it's OP's opponent. He's scary-good with them.

The OP had a knock-down, drag-out with a Whisper/Chiraneau build in Swiss at our Store Championship last weekend that he barely lost, followed by beating the same player in the first round of eliminations.

A man I greatly admire once told me, "One time is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern."

I freely admitted to bragging in the opening sentence, not really sure why every one feels the need to tell me stuff I already know.

My issue with some of the responses are that they can be summed up with this.

"If you beat a phantom, it's because that player is bad". Not only is that a horrible thing to assume, it's also rather demeaning to the person who beat that phantom. Because clearly no amount of skill on his or her part had a factor...

Phantoms are not all powerful gods, who are immortal and can only be beaten because they were asleep at the wheel. Anyone who thinks so, as set themselves up for failure.

He missed top 8 by 3 points. That's just as good as top 8 and you know it.

I then beat another whisper to make the top 4 using a handful of generics, but yet again, everybody seems to be avoiding that point.

So we can read this as a weak player with a strong list (hence top 8) with Whisper lost to a another (possibly stronger) player with a generic list. From this we are supposed to to believe the generic list is a Phantom killer.

As has been said before - the Phantom is quite powerful. In the hands of a mediocre player it is strong. It allows them to recover from numerous mistakes with action phase movement and it is survivable given good rolling.

In the hands of a good or better player it is truly excellent. A good player won't rely on the dice to survive but will place the ship where it can't get shot. Once it can't be shot no amount of generics, stress, ion weapons, or anything else will kill it.

As per real life combat tactics, if the situation isn't in your favour, disengage (run away) and re-engage on better terms.

The best players of this game practice this with all their ships. It is very easy with a Phantom to go for a kill and leave yourself open to multiple return shots. This is the mistake that an average player is likely to make, a good player won't. It isn't an error in play, it's an error in judgement.

Well your right VanorDM

I'm not trying to be demeaning to his opponents but i just wonder is maybe his skill lvl higher than those he plays.

I'm also not saying if you beat a phantom then your opponent is bad, but based off the information given and the amount of bragging I do question the difference in skill lvl.

I said it multiple times I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, but i just don't see it happening not against a highly skilled phantom player

I mean imo a skilled phantom should not be killed by generic xwings so easily

Maybe that is how I should have put it.

Maybe his skill lvl is just higher than his opponent?

I mean he sounds so confident and bragging about it, but i do wonder what the skill lvl is of th players he is playing

I mean we don't know. Maybe.they really are good, but as I said

I'll remain sceptical till shown otherwise

Either play against him, or see a video

I'm sorry but I do feel confident that could beat this list, but that's just my opinion

I freely admitted to bragging in the opening sentence, not really sure why every one feels the need to tell me stuff I already know.

I for one have been reading this for some tactical advice, and would appreciate something more solid than what you gave. Another poster offered to draw some nice pictures to show what you mean. So indulge us.

As has been said before - the Phantom is quite powerful. In the hands of a mediocre player it is strong. It allows them to recover from numerous mistakes with action phase movement and it is survivable given good rolling.

I actually could not disagree with this more. The Phantom in the hands of an unskilled player is a death sentence on twelve systems. It is a very unforgiving ship with its low health. Players without the experience necessary to fly a Phantom correctly will almost assuredly misuse their actions.

The Phantom is not an equalizer, it's a weapon. And like any weapon, in the hands of someone unfamiliar with how to use it properly, it's at least as dangerous to the wielder as it is to the target.

I freely admitted to bragging in the opening sentence, not really sure why every one feels the need to tell me stuff I already know.

I for one have been reading this for some tactical advice, and would appreciate something more solid than what you gave. Another poster offered to draw some nice pictures to show what you mean. So indulge us.

Just a brag post