I'm still astounded by the amount of emotional investment of some people.

Midichlorians (or however it's spelled) makes sense, I disagree that it demystifies anything - although I do understand the arguments, but I disagree with them. It's a link. I'm not a super-fan of it, but I don't get the nerd-rage directed towards this, sure I can get Jar Jar (to some extent) as it was a poorly written character, but this whole deal? To me most of it sounds like reactionary naysaying and fear, sometimes just for the sake of it.

PS: Poor Jar Jar XD

(while we're hatin' on the prequels...)

I had nothing against JarJar. Phantom Menance was, I felt, just a fairly bad film in a year that seemed full of bad films.

The absolute obscenities and cinematic atrocities came later, I felt.

To me most of it sounds like reactionary naysaying

You can have my reactionary naysaying when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

it trivialities it, almost.

Not "almost". It 100% trivializes it.

Eh. Never had a problem with midichlorians. Like someone else has said "It's a transmitter, a radio for speaking to...the force". They to me are a bi-product of life and thus any life can tap into the force, however the more you have the easier it is to tap into the force. Anakin had it easy, he got the fast track and was that A+ student who didn't have to do the reading, he could just turn up and pass the exam because somehow he just knew the answers. Whereas there's the poor student in the back who practices every day, moving items, tapping into the force etc. yet is struggling because he doesn't have as much 'natural talent' with the force.

It also to me makes it more believable as an entity seeing that the Jedi sought to understand the Force and how it works. Do I think it lead to their downfall? No I think that was to do with other more pertinent issues within the 'politics' of the Jedi itself and not the science.

It doesn't take away the mysticism for me, it just adds another layer to it.

I think the big rub for people is that when Midi-Chlorians got introduced. It was just so "yup here yea go, this verifies something, and that was all we got." They really never get talked about again and we really do not have a true indicator on how significant they are in being able to connect with the force. We are given a Example of Standard measurement but no chart to compare it to.

He compares Anakin to Yoda (Which was a very poor decision that was meant with good intentions) and we really do not know how much his count is higher or what is normal amount found in Force Users. The explanation of them is just so lacking it just bothers you.
I seriously think that if what was said was that about Anakin's Midi-Chlorian count was "The count is over 20,000 is goes far beyond the threshold of possible force potential. You rarely hear about anyone in training that has more than 10,000" It links in the more explainable "High Midi-Chlorians equal Force Potential", but leaves enough room for the mystical side to wonder how much does it factor in actually using the Force.

Honestly this was Lucas' way of trying to tie in the Bloodlines concept of Force Users. Example "Skywalker Family" It could also bind in why there is such high potential for Force Users in certain races.

The Novel Death Star tried to give a better standard. 2000 is normal for non-force users, 5000 is kind of like a minimal threshold to be force sensitive. Also in one of the The Clone Wars "Lost Episodes" Episodes it states that everyone has the Force in them. (At the time they were extracting the Force from JarJar who was whining it was not possible since he is not force sensitive)

In general, all Star Wars movies... are "not so good movies"... call it bad if you wish XD

Don't misunderstand me, I love them! They were revolutionary in the late 70s and 80s but... are bad movies XD (I'm not refering to technical aspects as photography or soundtrack).

I love some concepts but, interpretation, script and some concepts are, well, not so polished (old and new movies).

But even with all those valorations... I still love Star Wars. Thats the SW effect

I'm 16 and I don't really know Star Wars without midichlorians, too. They don't bug me at all. I'm as mystified by them as I am by Oldie Won Kenobi's later explanation to Luke.

In our game, they're all but forgotten due to the Empire's efforts. My character learned about them after discovering her own Force Sensitivity. Part of that learning was that midichlorians were (quoting my notes), "...never anything more than a controversial fringe science that periodically gained popularity but when research or experiments concluded with confusing or contradictory results, they'd eventually fade back into obscurity."

I have no clue how much of that is canon or Dadspeak... but that's why they don't bother me at all.

And I LOVE Jar Jar!!

This image resumes what I felt when I first heard of the midi-chlorians

Star Was manga style!

His midi-chlorian count is

The major issue with midichlorians is that their inclusion in PM (and apparent exclusion from AotC/RotS) causes major plot holes within the core arc of the films. How did Palpy keep his midichlorians secret? Since the Jedi apparently blood test babies and recruit five year olds to train with lightsabers (one of like a hundred other issues I have with the prequels). Why didn't they do blood testing in the senate when they thought there was sith involvment?

Like it is a stupid idea that they noticed was stupid (and a potential issue with plot holes) and then completely discarded when the fan reaction was negative. Midichlorians NEVER* show up again after PM.

*I don't care about whatever books mention it. The authors who try and shoehorn **** from the prequels strike me as Prequel Apologists.

The major issue with midichlorians is that their inclusion in PM (and apparent exclusion from AotC/RotS) [...] Midichlorians NEVER* show up again after PM.

It comes up again in RotS. Palpatine explains that Plagueis could... "use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying."

Edited for clarity.

Whatever we want to make of the Force is up to us.

However, what's interesting I think, and maybe telling, is that thus far there's been no mention of the M word (that I can find) in the Core Books.

Which I think is wise; FFG likely know this is a controversial issue (casual fans might not even know of it) so there's little point in bringing it up.

It comes up again in AotC. Palpatine explains that Plagueis could... "use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying."

You mean RotS...it's the scene in the opera house.

Right. My mind was in 3 different places when I wrote the quoted post. I'll edit it for clarity.

Maybe Force isn't so easy or voluntary to detect, maybe Palp had diplomatic immunity... maybe just a bad script... I dunno XDD

not really. that's just symantics that lead to the same thing

a rose by any other name and all that.

No, it's not semantics at all. It's based on actual dialogue from the films.

"Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicate with the Force."

Two separate things. My radio receiver/radio waves example is an analogy, not semantics. Many energies in nature were completely inexplicable to science until we discovered the technology to observe them.

as long as you don't like the prequels, we're cool

And there we have it. Revealed, your opinion is. It's fine to not like things, in fact there is a lot about the prequels I don't like either. (As with the OT, nothing is perfect).

But don't misrepresent the actual dialogue to support your own biases.

I will post my own take on it.

Prior to their introduction, the Force was something that permeated all living beings and its use seemed to have a strong tie to one's spiritual development. There were elements of being strong in the force because one's family is strong in the force, but it was always covered in a vaguely respectable veneer of DESTINY and MYSTICISM. The Force being a spiritual and egalitarian thing is important to many of us if we are to regard it as a good or cool thing.

Midichlorians took the hitherto vague intimations of destiny or family ties and made it a biological component of the host. You could meditate and be spiritual all you wanted, or you could be a whiny brat (Anakin) but what really mattered most of all, was whether you had won the genetic lottery and scored high on your midichlorian count. Now maybe they still required a bit of training and discipline to make use of but the damage had been done and the roles had reversed. A Jedi was special because they were one of the genetically gifted. You can rationalize or tack on various things you think mitigate that, but those are things one does deliberately to try and make it into what you want. All most of us saw was Qui-Gon Jinn give young Anakin a blood test to measure how much Jediness he had.

Whilst it didn't kill off the Force as a factor of your spiritual enlightenment, it dealt it a pretty massive blow. Yoda had the highest count known, based on Obi Wan's reaction. And he was head of the Jedi coincidentally? No. Clearly midichlorians supplanted wise mysticism as the determinant of what makes a Jedi. And a lot of people really like the egalitarian nature of the wise mysticism approach to Jedi.

The Force "just was" it didn't need explanation, because giving it one removes the mystical magical nature of the force. The Force required faith back then. Adding midiclorians made it not faith, but simple, testable, provable, science. It's still really cool, but it removes that special something that made you feel like, if you concentrated hard enough, you could one day move something with your mind.

It is quantified though. Yoda says "life creates it, makes it grow". There's a biological mechanism behind this energy field, akin to the eastern concepts of chi and chakras and meridians and whatnot. Our life field intersects with other life fields and the effect cascades where the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. The philosophies behind these concepts are not necessarily "faith-based", though I'd say they're more accepting of the "subjectively empirical" than western philosophical thought. Objective quantification is actively pursued.

Putting a name to the biological mechanism isn't a problem imho. It doesn't take away the mystery of how you get midichlorians or whether the Force chooses you to receive them.

I'm curious if you saw the last three episodes of TCW season 6? I think for those worried about midichlorians and the loss of mystery they managed to both explain more and add more mystery.

Midi Chlorians take on a more significant meaning in the Darth Plaguis book. It explained Palpatine''s motivations and his master's. Unfortunately with the EU being relegated to legends so was that book.

Well I just ignore them. If I were to bother I'd say that Midichlorians don't give you Force abilities but are instead drawn to living creatures that are in tune with the Force. Sort of Force parasites.

Edit: Maybe this misunderstanding, that Midies were the source of the Force in living beings rather than them being a parasite, caused the Counsel to focus on the wrong people to train. Instead of finding good people who could then "attract" Midies by growing in the Force they only took people who were unaware of their natural affinity. This may have led to their complacency toward the end.

There was no suggestion in either way. Other than it is a rare ability. Rare ability tends to imply people can't do it with out the ability,

Plus, going by strictly what we see on screen in E4-6 and not any books or comics or anything - one's Force potential is very clearly hereditary. Long before any of the E1 stuff dropped, I always entertained the notion of a Jedi breeding program, where you would pair off two powerful Force users, make some woo-hoo and spit out a "the force is strong with this one" baby. The whole No-Nookie-For-Jedi thing put a kibosh on that - but the idea that the force is genetic has been here for a long, long time.

Midichlorians took the hitherto vague intimations of destiny or family ties and made it a biological component of the host. You could meditate and be spiritual all you wanted, or you could be a whiny brat (Anakin) but what really mattered most of all, was whether you had won the genetic lottery and scored high on your midichlorian count.

Except that genetic lottery thing is already in RotJ...Luke says to Leia, "the Force is strong in my family". Foundations of this were already there.

Parasite Eve

If the concept had been used well in a narrative way, I don't think it would have been so bad. For example, if Anakin and Obi-Wan had been closer to the same age, you could've had the "gifted slacker vs hardworking student" dynamic between them until they became good friends. Or even explore the Sith alchemy connection more. Maybe Palpatine HAD been trying to inject midichlorians into clones to make them Force-sensitive, but for whatever reason it didn't stick except with however Anakin was "created". Then you get the whole "crisis of identity" thing with Anakin, and it's all suddenly much more interesting.

As it stands though, it's just a really jarring addition without a whole lot of payoff, so it sticks out in everyone's mind.