Dec&Phantom are taking names worldwide. Counters?

By Sethis, in X-Wing Squad Lists

So, we've all seen how well Decimators and Phantoms are doing in the current SC meta pre-S&V. Something like 50% of all top 5 lists are featuring a Decimator, at least. Blagh.

Now I enjoy using my Phantom and my Decimator, but I don't really want to join the crowd, so to speak, thus I'm considering other choices that are good against this type of list. Concurrently, it'd be nice to do well vs Fat Han + Corran and A-Wing swarms, which also seem to be things to look out for.

I'm looking at:

Krassis Trelix (36)
Ion Cannon (3)
Tactician (2)
Assault Missiles (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Kath Scarlet (38)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Rebel Captive (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Total: 99
As a rough first draft. Multiple stress/ion inflicting ships with multiple arcs (although of course the Ion doesn't work in the rear... c'est la vie) would seem to be a decent answer to cloaking shenanigans, and being a large ship with boost myself would let me stay away from that Chiraneau R1-2 crit threat band. The assault missiles are purely there to get some headway vs people running some swarm variant lists.
I'm very open to suggestions, I haven't even tried flying double Firesprays before. Can anyone tell me their weak points? Strengths? Cool tricks or tactics? Should I swap the crew over, or can you tell me better ones? Are Firesprays even a decent counter, and if not, what is?
I don't often post lists for tabletop games, as I'm aware that you guys probably have more important things to be worrying about than some strangers inability to construct squadrons! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Roark as support ship for Super Dash is surprisingly good against both Phantoms and Decimators.

[...]
I don't often post lists for tabletop games, as I'm aware that you guys probably have more important things to be worrying about than some strangers inability to construct squadrons! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Some of us have more Squadron Lists than time to fly them all...

As for the thoughts on the Firesprays I've not much advice as I only own and can field 1. Other than that I might move the AM to Kath, she's got the Captive so that forces whoever is attacking before her have to take a Stress if they want to try to Nuke her before she takes her shot.

As for other list ideas might want to give this one a shot:

Dash Rendar — YT-2400 36

Veteran Instincts 1

Heavy Laser Cannon 7

Kyle Katarn 3

Tactical Jammer 1

Outrider 5

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25

R7 Astromech 2

Airen Cracken — Z-95 Headhunter 19

Veteran Instincts 1

An alternative is to drop Cracken for Filler and give Biggs Experimental Interface and R2-F2.

The strategy is to keep Biggs on the opposite side of Dash. Thanks to Tactical Jammer Dash acts like an Asteroid protecting Biggs this should mitigate damage enough for Dash to return fire against other Turreted Ships and destroy them before they delete Biggs.

I've flown well over 100 games with dual firesprays, so that might make me the resident expert in some ways.

Easily my favorite squad, and much better once the new scum pilots come out.

My version is different than yours, but I'll give you a few general guidelines.

1) Fly them together as much as possible. With only two ships you need to maximize your focus fire.

2) If you get the chance, fly past the enemy ships using a 3 or 4 straight and hit them hard with your rear arc. The 2 and 3 hard turns also do this nicely, and often means you're not getting shot back either.

3) The evade action is very handy when you're low on health and/or near the end of the game. That combined with 2-3 defensive dice can keep you alive long enough to win.

4) While the rear arc is nice, don't be afraid to kturn. The worst thing you can do is keep using the rear arc while other ships are chasing you and get in a bad corner and have a turn or two where you have no shots and they do. Kturning means you can bring the fight back to them beforehand.

I've flown well over 100 games with dual firesprays, so that might make me the resident expert in some ways.

Easily my favorite squad, and much better once the new scum pilots come out.

My version is different than yours, but I'll give you a few general guidelines.

1) Fly them together as much as possible. With only two ships you need to maximize your focus fire.

2) If you get the chance, fly past the enemy ships using a 3 or 4 straight and hit them hard with your rear arc. The 2 and 3 hard turns also do this nicely, and often means you're not getting shot back either.

3) The evade action is very handy when you're low on health and/or near the end of the game. That combined with 2-3 defensive dice can keep you alive long enough to win.

4) While the rear arc is nice, don't be afraid to kturn. The worst thing you can do is keep using the rear arc while other ships are chasing you and get in a bad corner and have a turn or two where you have no shots and they do. Kturning means you can bring the fight back to them beforehand.

Huehuehuehuehue.

On a more serious note, if you can squeeze it in (huehuehuehue), a Proton Bomb could work wonders against either 1) an A-wing Swarm or 2) seriously making a player guess where his Phantom wants to de-cloak. I know it's pricey, but they have helped me tremendously. I essentially killed an entire Z-Swarm with a Proton Bomb once (two direct hits and one minor explosion; no extra damage though). The Firespray's 2 agility is typically enough to out-last some focused fire when combined with Recon Specialist as an action, and since Proton Bomb is only dropped when revealing the dial, you can do it when stressed or if you'll bump.

I've flown well over 100 games with dual firesprays, so that might make me the resident expert in some ways.

Easily my favorite squad, and much better once the new scum pilots come out.

My version is different than yours, but I'll give you a few general guidelines.

1) Fly them together as much as possible. With only two ships you need to maximize your focus fire.

2) If you get the chance, fly past the enemy ships using a 3 or 4 straight and hit them hard with your rear arc. The 2 and 3 hard turns also do this nicely, and often means you're not getting shot back either.

3) The evade action is very handy when you're low on health and/or near the end of the game. That combined with 2-3 defensive dice can keep you alive long enough to win.

4) While the rear arc is nice, don't be afraid to kturn. The worst thing you can do is keep using the rear arc while other ships are chasing you and get in a bad corner and have a turn or two where you have no shots and they do. Kturning means you can bring the fight back to them beforehand.

Huehuehuehuehue.

On a more serious note, if you can squeeze it in (huehuehuehue), a Proton Bomb could work wonders against either 1) an A-wing Swarm or 2) seriously making a player guess where his Phantom wants to de-cloak. I know it's pricey, but they have helped me tremendously. I essentially killed an entire Z-Swarm with a Proton Bomb once (two direct hits and one minor explosion; no extra damage though). The Firespray's 2 agility is typically enough to out-last some focused fire when combined with Recon Specialist as an action, and since Proton Bomb is only dropped when revealing the dial, you can do it when stressed or if you'll bump.

I do like the idea of the bomb - if you place it well then it's much more reliable than Missiles vs 3+ green dice, but I've never really practiced with them, so I don't know if I'll ever manage to pull something like that off... I've used Prox mines before for fun, but that was basically a matter of filling up the space between three asteroids to create an entire no-go zone for my opponent.

Roark as support ship for Super Dash is surprisingly good against both Phantoms and Decimators.

A 2 ship version? I worry that Dash would be the only one shooting as I try to keep Roark alive, leaving me with 4 red dice vs 7+.

[...]
I don't often post lists for tabletop games, as I'm aware that you guys probably have more important things to be worrying about than some strangers inability to construct squadrons! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Some of us have more Squadron Lists than time to fly them all...

As for the thoughts on the Firesprays I've not much advice as I only own and can field 1. Other than that I might move the AM to Kath, she's got the Captive so that forces whoever is attacking before her have to take a Stress if they want to try to Nuke her before she takes her shot.

As for other list ideas might want to give this one a shot:

Dash Rendar — YT-2400 36

Veteran Instincts 1

Heavy Laser Cannon 7

Kyle Katarn 3

Tactical Jammer 1

Outrider 5

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25

R7 Astromech 2

Airen Cracken — Z-95 Headhunter 19

Veteran Instincts 1

An alternative is to drop Cracken for Filler and give Biggs Experimental Interface and R2-F2.

The strategy is to keep Biggs on the opposite side of Dash. Thanks to Tactical Jammer Dash acts like an Asteroid protecting Biggs this should mitigate damage enough for Dash to return fire against other Turreted Ships and destroy them before they delete Biggs.

That's an interesting concept, I might give it a try! Might be difficult keeping Biggs alive long enough to keep the heat off the Outrider, and presumably the large base of the Outrider makes it easier for them to play at R3 so that it's their only legal target, although I guess if they do that then I'm punching back with a HLC and 2+ green dice of my own... And it prevents Chira from getting crits. Looks promising! I've just not played with Rebels much, so don't know how well it'll perform in my hands. Thanks!

I've flown well over 100 games with dual firesprays, so that might make me the resident expert in some ways.

Easily my favorite squad, and much better once the new scum pilots come out.

My version is different than yours, but I'll give you a few general guidelines.

1) Fly them together as much as possible. With only two ships you need to maximize your focus fire.

2) If you get the chance, fly past the enemy ships using a 3 or 4 straight and hit them hard with your rear arc. The 2 and 3 hard turns also do this nicely, and often means you're not getting shot back either.

3) The evade action is very handy when you're low on health and/or near the end of the game. That combined with 2-3 defensive dice can keep you alive long enough to win.

4) While the rear arc is nice, don't be afraid to kturn. The worst thing you can do is keep using the rear arc while other ships are chasing you and get in a bad corner and have a turn or two where you have no shots and they do. Kturning means you can bring the fight back to them beforehand.

Great advice, thanks very much. I'll try to remember it all! If you were running a double Firespray list designed specifically to deal with Phantoms (and, if possible, Decimators) then would it look totally different to mine?

Thanks for the comments. :)

Edited by Sethis