The temptation to rock up with three Deltas is strong.

I must say that i am a very big fan of defender i have tried him in this build with good success:

Whisper+FCS+VI+ACD

Vessery+VI

OGP+Vader

Instead of OGP+Vader i was considering Yorr to help Defender with sharp turns but Vader on OGP is very good so i do not want to get rid of him .

Also this list could be a lot of fun:

Vessery+Lone Wolf

Sigma+Tactician+FCS+Stygium Particle Accelerator

Sigma+Tactician+FCS+Stygium Particle Accelerator

Give it a few weeks and you could add two Manglers and a Flechette Cannon to that trio.

The 20th can't come soon enough.

If only I had a legal Flechette Cannon ... ... I could run my double TIE/D list in the two SCs I have coming up.

Something like this:

It is my belief that T/Ds will enjoy a short golden period immediately following the Wave 6 launch. People will want to run Defenders with the new cannons and a lot of players aren't familiar with flying against them. That's my hope, anyway.

I was thinking that once the new Tie Advanced fix comes, I will have a hard time finding the points for the Defender. I just pulled up my list builder...

Col. Vessery w/ VI

3 x Tempest Squadron w/ X1 + Accuracy Corrector

99 pts

I was thinking that once the new Tie Advanced fix comes, I will have a hard time finding the points for the Defender. I just pulled up my list builder...

Col. Vessery w/ VI

3 x Tempest Squadron w/ X1 + Accuracy Corrector

99 pts

Oh that's not too shabby at all.

It needs a good name. Something like Advanced Defender.

Vessery in Heaven

I love the ship and it's great to see people brainstorming in this thread.

I remember when it released, there were a lot of heated arguments regarding whether or not it was a disappointment and/or overpriced. A lot of people contended that it was simply misunderstood and we'd see it's potential unfold over time. Here we are ~7 months later and we're still having this conversation.

A few of my thoughts:

1. The pilot abilities are still disappointing. They are, indisputably, inflexible. Vessery requires you to build a list around him (note: his pilot ability seems far better suited for Rebels) and Rex, PS8 mind you, benefits from shooting last. Additionally, there's a chance you may not see Rex's ability come to fruition, given the importance of saving the focus token for defense.

2. It still sucks at clearing stress and has stress-inducing turns. This puts a larger penalty on using elite pilot traits that use stress as a cost. Additionally, we are seeing more abilities and weapons added to the game that induce stress. I think FFG really overcompensated for the white k-turn here.

3. Cost. Players wanting to field the Defender competitively need to a good argument to field Vessery (for example) over alternatives. For example, would a naked Vessery ever be of greater value than Vader with TIE/x1, Lone Wolf, a list-independent pilot skill, and Engine Upgrade? On this note, it almost seems silly to field a Defender over a TIE/x1 Advanced. A PS2 Tempest Pilot with Accuracy Corrector is a whopping 9 points cheaper than a PS1 Defender. I think the main question really is whether or not you need a small-base cannon ship in your list. I'm not convinced that anybody would choose it primarily for its movement dial and one more hull.

I actually want my cynicism to be proving wrong about the ship, but I think FFG really dropped the ball this time. The Lambda is an example of a previously misunderstood ship that was spared by its cheap cost and vast customization options. If I'm missing something about the Defender that justifies its cost over all other options, I'd love to know what it is. Again, this conversation continues ~7 months after the ship's release.

I'll start by saying I love the Defender, its model is cool and the fact that it has a white K-turn is awesome. However, it is a little overpriced now, and after the Raider hits it will be severely overpriced.

TIE/D - Delta (30)

PS1, 3 Attack, 3 Defense, 3 Hull, 3 Shield

TIE/x1 - Tempest (21), X1 Title, Advanced Targetting Computer (1), Shield Upgrade(4) - (26)

PS2, 3 Attack (better than actually, since one is a guaranteed crit), 3 Defense, 3 Hull, 3 Shield

As long as the x1 can maintain a target lock (not really that hard) it has the equivalent of 3 Red Dice, except one of those dice always comes up Crit. Unless your opponent is running lots of Expert Handling or Countermeasures your x1's will only ever need to TL once per target, then they are free to focus up (except for the badass Vader who doesn't even need to wait a turn). This effectively negates any reason to take a non-unique Defender.

The only Defender I could see being taken after the Raider his is Vessary being run with a pair (or even 3) x1s. HLC + TL + focus every turn is pretty good, but even that you are paying a lot for.

I really wish Defenders were good, but they are only going to get worse as times goes on (until FFG releases a title for Defenders just like they did for Advanced).

As for being the best place to put a HLC I'd disagree, as Lambdas and there ability to do a 0 maneuver actually make HLC workable (and at 28 points, which is less than a naked Defender).

I remember when it released, there were a lot of heated arguments regarding whether or not it was a disappointment and/or overpriced. A lot of people contended that it was simply misunderstood and we'd see it's potential unfold over time. Here we are ~7 months later and we're still having this conversation.

What I see now, though, is some people saying, "Yeah, I love my Defender! I win games with it" and everyone else saying, "They cost too much. I never use them." What the difference is is that there is a small group of people that are using the Defender and happy with it, while there are a lot of people who don't use it.

Even once wave six is out they'll remain the best cannon ship in the game.

I love the Defender, but the best cannon ship trophy would go to the Outrider, Truth be told.

Hmm, I wonder, Delta Squadron vs. wild space fringer with no upgrades.... sounds fun

A free title taking 4-5 points off of cannons would nice

A free title taking 4-5 points off of cannons would nice

A free title that take 3 points off a cannon would be justified. The Defender SHOULD have an Ion cannon built into it!

It's a friggin' TIE Defender. if it gets a title it should be akin to the Ywing Longprobe but more Defender-ier

"When attacking, fire every equipped weapon at once. Because you're a Defender and you don't take **** from anyone."

It's a friggin' TIE Defender. if it gets a title it should be akin to the Ywing Longprobe but more Defender-ier

"When attacking, fire every equipped weapon at once. Because you're a Defender and you don't take **** from anyone."

Well that would certainly make people take a second look at Defenders. 4 Dice from HLC followed by 3 Dice (or 4) from Primary.

It's a friggin' TIE Defender. if it gets a title it should be akin to the Ywing Longprobe but more Defender-ier

"When attacking, fire every equipped weapon at once. Because you're a Defender and you don't take **** from anyone."

Well that would certainly make people take a second look at Defenders. 4 Dice from HLC followed by 3 Dice (or 4) from Primary.

Good title card, would add more to the price. (would have to, that'd be as OP as anything).

How about this. replaces [cannon] with [turret] that must only fire in arc, may fire primary then turret (or turret then primary).

That removes the HLC option yet keeps ion as a thing.

A free title taking 4-5 points off of cannons would nice

A free title that take 3 points off a cannon would be justified. The Defender SHOULD have an Ion cannon built into it!

This. 2-3 points off a cannon should do it. Would make their price about right.

I don't demand a fix or anything i think defenders work okay, but hows this:

Linked fire: when equipped with an ion cannon you may attack with both weapons at the same time.

It fits with the canon of the defender, only works with one weapon system so you cant buy a HLC and roll 7 dice.

I don't demand a fix or anything i think defenders work okay, but hows this:

Linked fire: when equipped with an ion cannon you may attack with both weapons at the same time.

It fits with the canon of the defender, only works with one weapon system so you cant buy a HLC and roll 7 dice.

I remember when it released, there were a lot of heated arguments regarding whether or not it was a disappointment and/or overpriced. A lot of people contended that it was simply misunderstood and we'd see it's potential unfold over time. Here we are ~7 months later and we're still having this conversation.

What I see now, though, is some people saying, "Yeah, I love my Defender! I win games with it" and everyone else saying, "They cost too much. I never use them." What the difference is is that there is a small group of people that are using the Defender and happy with it, while there are a lot of people who don't use it.

There's also a very small group of people who absolutely detest the Defender as an X-wing unit but despite their anguish have found a way to make it somewhat playable.

There's also plenty of people who are simply disappointed with the ship and don't use it as often.

I wish I had more cause to put the Defender on the board but that 30 points is too steep for most lists. PS1 is also very punishing (and hard to understand given this unit's lore).

As an aside, TIE Advanceds are going to be fun for once with the new system fix. It makes them better escorts for a tricked out Defender than relying on crunchy basic TIEs or expensive phantoms.

I remember when it released, there were a lot of heated arguments regarding whether or not it was a disappointment and/or overpriced. A lot of people contended that it was simply misunderstood and we'd see it's potential unfold over time. Here we are ~7 months later and we're still having this conversation.

What I see now, though, is some people saying, "Yeah, I love my Defender! I win games with it" and everyone else saying, "They cost too much. I never use them." What the difference is is that there is a small group of people that are using the Defender and happy with it, while there are a lot of people who don't use it.

Keep in mind, and here is where I think the confusion comes, is that people can and do say both!

1. "Yeah, I love my Defender!" - Yes, it takes a bit of practice (10+ games) but the FFG Tie Defender definitely has a very interesting play style. It is not the computer game Tie Defender, but it has its own virtues. As discussed 100 times already, the ability to zoom 5 forward followed by a white K-Turn, or 3 Hard+Barrel Roll followed up by a white K-Turn with another Barrel Roll can put your ship in many different and interesting places with guns pointing at your opponent. For further tricks, you can always choose to go slow (1 bank is rare for imperials) and 1 bank with a barrel roll all but stops the ship. Vesy with a squad around him can be good on the offensive while Rexy with a shield upgrade and lone wolf can and has won 5 to 1 fights for me. In casual play I have had T/D lists which at one point had been at 8 wins 1 loss.

2. "They cost too much. I never use them." - Yes!!! I would never want to play a Tie Defender in a competitive tournament! All of my X-Wing friends have now faced my Tie Defenders so many times, that they know all of their tricks and limitations. Even then, I can win about 50% of competitive games but it is just a painful experience for me: I know where I want to go with the ship and what to do with it but I just keep getting shot down, the T/D is not a well thought out ship. Consider this, forget all turreted ships, you can get Keyan Farlander (the B-Wing that fires stress out of his guns, at lvl 9, with a heavy laser cannon, with advanced sensors with Chewbacka or C3PO and still cost less than a loaded Rexler!!!

The Defender has a good stat-line but it's also predictable. Some say the 4-White K-turn is over-valued and this might be the case. Really it's the 1-2 turns being red that punish this ship more than anything else I think, that and the cost since you can't give it more upgrades.

Heh, and compared to an Advanced Sensor B-Wing it has less resiliency and more reliance on the evade dice. With Murphy's law in play, expect your TIE Defender to die first.

It's a friggin' TIE Defender. if it gets a title it should be akin to the Ywing Longprobe but more Defender-ier

"When attacking, fire every equipped weapon at once. Because you're a Defender and you don't take **** from anyone."

Well that would certainly make people take a second look at Defenders. 4 Dice from HLC followed by 3 Dice (or 4) from Primary.

Good title card, would add more to the price. (would have to, that'd be as OP as anything).

How about this. replaces [cannon] with [turret] that must only fire in arc, may fire primary then turret (or turret then primary).

That removes the HLC option yet keeps ion as a thing.

That wasn't meant to be at all a serious suggestion, guys. C'mon ...