My thinking is your already paying out so go big or go home, people don't blink at making the phantom or decimator half their list but because forum wisdom says trips suck they pull their face at the idea of running a tooled up rexler with miniswarm.

Two defenders with ion cannons and captain jonus buzzing about behind them is funny. It's the closest thing imperials have to guaranteed ion.

The problem with the Defender is that it's a ship based around going fast in a straight line, and that is of almost zero value in this game.

I once played 3 Defenders with 3 Stealth Devices against Super Echo and a Decimator. When I complained about how overpowered the Phantom is he told me to not fly so predictably. XD

I am extremely excited for the Tie x1 because I thing it will pair very well with completely replace the Defender. Up until now there was no really good option for the 20 point range for imperials so now we can run a heavy hitting defender for 30-40 points and some excellent support in the 20 point range to go with it.

Fixed it for ya.

But you are right, the Defender is good. Its just not good enough for how much it costs. You really limit your options when you want to field one. Its also completely out-classed by the Phantom for a similar amount of points. If the Phantom did not exist in this game, I assure you, you would see a lot of Defenders.

And now on top of that, you have a cheaper and nearly as good replacement in the ATC X1.

The generic Phantoms are fun to fly and actually balanced without the ACD + VI nonsense. The problem with the Defender is that it has a red hard 1. You see the red hard 1 and say to yourself, "that's fine, I'll just do the hard 2" and it's red. A red hard 2 on a 30 point ps 1 ship. a red hard 2 once you do one of these moves, you can't let go of the stress. Rarely is a green 2 forward the best way to burn stress. HLC's mean nothing when the Phantom has 4 base attack btw.

White K-turn isn't very special, Advanced Sensors B-Wings have one already pretty much.

The thing would be nice if it could 6 straight or 4 bank. If this ship is based around going fast in a straight line and not slowing down, being the only ship in X-Wing to 4 bank or 6 straight would at least make it unique. The 3 banks never carry you as far as you'd like.

The generic Defenders are objectively overcosted by a few points, although not to the extent that E-wings are. While FFG has done a good job keeping the game balanced, they consistently overprice any ship with 3 green dice.

Just think of the generic pilots for these, when they were first released:

-Tie Advanced

-A-wing

-Tie Interceptor

-E-wing

-Tie Defender

They're basically the worst ships in the game, and three of them have already received patches to make them workable. The two Scum ships with 3 greens are already looking a bit questionable too.

However, Vessery (already the best Defender pilot) is going to be great with the new X-1s with ATC, as ATC doesn't consume the target lock. Vader, Vessery, and friends will be fun to play.

Yeah.. Vessery like how Vader is now is going to be the only Defender pilot who will likely see play time. E-wing is in this boat too.

I am extremely excited for the Tie x1 because I thing it will pair very well with completely replace the Defender. Up until now there was no really good option for the 20 point range for imperials so now we can run a heavy hitting defender for 30-40 points and some excellent support in the 20 point range to go with it.

Fixed it for ya.

But you are right, the Defender is good. Its just not good enough for how much it costs. You really limit your options when you want to field one. Its also completely out-classed by the Phantom for a similar amount of points. If the Phantom did not exist in this game, I assure you, you would see a lot of Defenders.

And now on top of that, you have a cheaper and nearly as good replacement in the ATC X1.

I don't think I would call the defender the new Tie Advanced. There is so much stuff that is different.

For Jousting values Tie Defender does have an advantage being able to perform actions after a K-turn while others will need to green to remove stress. Of course most people will not do just a simple K turn after green after other K-turn.

Tie Advance may be cheaper but it is also 1 less health and 1 less shield as well. Also it can't K turn and action at the same time.

I have felt that the defender doesn't need upgrades. Not that it can't make very good use of some but it is fully suited to running naked it needed. Most other ships have some upgrade that becomes "must have" to make it worth running. The defender has no glaring weakness. I do enjoy running an ion cannon since the defender can ion a ship then pull a green K and be perfectly lined up to send one straight up the jacksie!

I'm in the same camp.

I love putting some upgrades from time to time on my defenders, but I don't consider them necessary and think the ship fly just as good without any. His survivability relying mostly on the green dice and overplaying your opponent, I feel that putting half your team points in it can backfire at you, especially with all those turrets flying around these days. Making it a third of your fleet is enough to be a threat on its own while leaving you a lot of points for the rest of your team.

I think people really downplay the white K turn. I would not want to give that up for a white 1 turn! Just what do you guys think an unlimited use white K-turn would cost as an upgrade??? I would say easily over 5 probably 6-7 points. Just imagine what someone like Wedge would be like with a white K.

I think people really downplay the white K turn. I would not want to give that up for a white 1 turn! Just what do you guys think an unlimited use white K-turn would cost as an upgrade??? I would say easily over 5 probably 6-7 points. Just imagine what someone like Wedge would be like with a white K.

The problem is that the White K is impossible to quantify the way we do in the forums.

It makes you substantially harder to predict than the rest of the ships, making it easier to win back the "points deficit", but that's as best as the statisticians can describe it.

Moreover, as people get more used to playing against a White K, its unpredictability factor declines.

Now, if you can show me that the White K is more valuable without going with difficulty of prediction than non-red turns are, you've got a winning case .

They also underestimate the tricks you can play, if someone thinks your going to k turn and plans for it and instead you pull a 1 bank or a 2 forward you can really throw them and get a free round of shooting.

What I believe is that promoting & inciting people to use defenders for the next set of tournaments is, after all, a very clever strategy.

Machiavelli would be proud of you all.

I don't play in tournaments and never use net lists, for me it's not about min maxing but testing my personal skill.

There's nothing like the warm glow taking a two small ship list and winning will give you.

I don't play much tournament scene. I have a group of 6 friends who have been gaming for about 20 years together so we play quite often. We do play a lot of the "meta" lists but we also feel much more free to diversify since we aren't out to dominate a local meta. I have much more fun finding that list that breaks the mold and works then cut and pasting Paul Heavers latest winning list. That's why I have grown to respect the Defender. I should be happy, if everyone keeps shelving the defender it will get an upgrade and one of my favorite ships will be even better.

In my area where its mostly small base ships the defender has a very respectable reputation. I think its a much better ship when doing a white K turn actually means you probably won't be shot at, as opposed to turrets just shooting behind them. Also there aren't as many phantoms here either.

PTL-Engine? So the Defender's strongest trait is moving in a straight line.

If a Lambda with Engines is considered maneuverable with it's dial a Defender should be able to Equal or surpass it.

Yes it's a shame that the generics aren't EPT eligible, but the same could be said about a number of ships (e.g. E-Wing, Starviper) but they're bound to get something unique to redeem their lackings.

3-Turn, Barrel Roll, Boost or 4-K, Boost, Barrel Roll can drastically change your position. Also since PTL generates stress why not just take a 1,2-Turn?

If you're thinking you're going to be bottlenecked with green maneuvers you won't be unless you're double stressed; 2-Straight, Boost, Barrel Roll can change your escape angle quite drastically the following turn.

If you're double Stressed take a K-Turn then double 5-Straight and setup a new angle of attack.

The idea that non-Focus/TL shots are worthless is a terrible mindset most are locked into. Statistically non-focus shots are inferior, but dice, at least my dice rarely adhere to Statistics.

The oddities of the Defender's dial and how your opponent perceives are it's strengths and weaknesses are it's greatest asset.

If your opponent thinks it's predictable do the unexpected by anticipating how they predict you'll move. (because the dial us weak, right?)

In a 100 point list, it's hard to justify 40 of those on a ship that can't turn and only has 6hp.

The defender can't just be the best ship at its price tag, it needs to be head and shoulders above the rest and it's not.

You're doing it wrong.

In a 100 point list, it's hard to justify 40 of those on a ship that can't turn and only has 6hp.

The defender can't just be the best ship at its price tag, it needs to be head and shoulders above the rest and it's not.

You're doing it wrong.

Quoted for truth.

I tried out a Biophysical's 2 defender list today and both my opponent and I were pleasently surprised by it.

I'd tried out this list before.

Rexlar, hlc

Vessery, VI, Hlc

academy pilot

The academy didn't really do much. spending the points beefing up the defenders made them quite fun, and I took out a deciphantom list with it (though my opponent hadn't had much experience with the phantom). I still feel I need more practice with the defender dial, getting used to it and what it can do, but its long been one of my favourite ships from the EU.

I have yet to be brave enough for a two defender list but i think it might be able to Work. If rolling well on defense the defender can take an enourmous effort to kill. People seem to think that the B-wing is tough but they have nothing on the defender. As I said earlier, I guess I should be happy so many people don't fly it because that means it will probably get a boost at some point which will make it dominate.

It's not a tournament winning list but double D is fun, it's not that far behind with eight attack and has more hit points than a triple interceptor list.

It's not a tournament winning list but double D is fun, it's not that far behind with eight attack and has more hit points than a triple interceptor list.

I'm unconvinced of that. I'm taking my Defender list to a Store Championship in a couple weeks.

Vessery+Outmaneuver is one of my new favorite ships to fly. Paired him up with two shuttles. Pure death.

It's not a tournament winning list but double D is fun, it's not that far behind with eight attack and has more hit points than a triple interceptor list.

I'm unconvinced of that. I'm taking my Defender list to a Store Championship in a couple weeks.

Take pics I'm interested to know how you do.

It's not a tournament winning list but double D is fun, it's not that far behind with eight attack and has more hit points than a triple interceptor list.

I'm unconvinced of that. I'm taking my Defender list to a Store Championship in a couple weeks.

Take pics I'm interested to know how you do.

I also would like an update. Vessery is certainly the cream of the crop. With a focus and TL he is a killing machine. I used him with Kagi the other night to ensure a TL and he was murderous. Vader+ATC would fit in a list with those two for more TL synergy. With the defender though you have more options, unlike the E-Wing I think the 30 point defender is very viable.

I feel like I should try "Push up bra".

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Recon Specialist (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

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