I also love defenders and took a two Defender list to a tournament before Christmas, I hate to burst people's bubble but I had a hard time.

I won against an A wing list and scraped though against a 3 Interceper list but was beaten thourghly by Dash, a tie swarm and Fat Han, so while I applaud people's efforts I feel we( Defender lovers) need something extra to beat the currant dominant archetypes.

Not going to stop me trying some of the above lists mind

In a two-ship defender list, would it be better to take Egine Upgrades, Shield Upgrades or Stealth Device on the Defenders? Or back them up with an academy TIE?

I think the defender is like a God...

... its paths are straight and it does not vary to the right hand, nor to the left.

But in all seriousness, I've been digging the great discussions here. Wingman, in particular is a neat little card in a Rexlar/Vessery build, and it's one of my favorites. I kept them pretty barebones so I could fly them with Captain Yorr+Fire-control system. He was handy for stress removal on those tight turns, and FCS is great for Vessery's ability.

A ship like the Defender, even the lowly Delta Squad Pilot, can become a real issue. This is especially true in the endgame and a reason why I place them really high in my targeting priority.

Absolutely. Defenders re a priority target because you never, ever want to be facing them in the endgame. The ability to 180 and retain actions (possibly paired with a HLC) means they're ideal closers.

That's why I believe Defenders work best in 3 ship lists where every target is a priority target - give your opponent tough decisions from the start.

Vader+ATC

Vessery+HLC

Stele+ATC

100points

I got a chance to run this list this afternoon and I have to say I was very pleased with the result. My opponent tried a three ship rebel ace list with Corran +R2-D2 & , Wedge and Luke+R2-F2 . I kept Maarek and Vessery together to work some TL synergy and I ran Vader out a little wider. On Turn two I moved all the ships into closer range since I saw I might be able to get three ships on Corran. Vader and Maarek did three hits on Corran at range 2. I thought Vessery was going to pummel him with HLC. It turned out that Vessery was a tiny fraction out of line to hit Corran. Instead he only got 2 hits on Range 3 Luke. Next turn it was all Col. Meat Grinder. The white 4 k allowed him to k and have focus+ TL HLC (thanks to Vader) on Luke and he just demolished him. Next turn Vader went down to Wedge and a now 4 HP Corran ( I hate R2-D2). Again Vessery was clutch landing 3 hits on Corran after Maarek softened him and he blew up. Wedge got Vessery down to 2 hits left but Maarek providing the TL's was just too powerful. I really think the Tie Advanced has improved the usability of Vessery to near phantom levels. He was landing 3-4 hits every turn. The synergy between ATC advanced and Vessery is a beautiful thing!

I think "Col. Meat Grinder is a very appropriate name for Vessery.

I recently had fairly solid success at a store championship outside of Philly with a two ship Boba Brath list.

It's 50 points, but Brath + HLC + Lone Wolf + Engine was the all-star of the day. He notched over 90% of my kills on the day and propelled me to top 8 in a 26 person field. Boba was the big let down of the list in my elimination round when he couldn't hit the broadside of a Decimator from range one...

The defender is the best cannon ship so far. I would think your breath load out would be pretty scary to face. In my game today I paid close attention to how many times I was able to use the HLC. In 8 rounds of play I got 5 HLC shots and 3 primary. The firespray can't match the defender for % of time that a cannon can be used. I wish Krassis was in a defender.

currant dominant archetypes

And now I can't stop imagining people playing this game with a bunch of dominating berries.

I also love defenders and took a two Defender list to a tournament before Christmas, I hate to burst people's bubble but I had a hard time.

It was a two ship list Ashey, you were always going to have a hard time!

currant dominant archetypes

And now I can't stop imagining people playing this game with a bunch of dominating berries.

Stupid phone plus Red wine........

Anyway, still considering two Deltas with ions and a shuttle to taste for store championship, I must be a sucker for punishment

I also love defenders and took a two Defender list to a tournament before Christmas, I hate to burst people's bubble but I had a hard time.

It was a two ship list Ashey, you were always going to have a hard time!

Unless it's Fat Han, Super Dash, or Decimator, that's true.

Two HLC defenders should eat up a Falcon pretty quick and you would still have 26 points for another decent ship. I would go with a shuttle or Tie advanced. The new auto thruster interceptor would be great if you knew you were going to face a turret.

I was thinking that once the new Tie Advanced fix comes, I will have a hard time finding the points for the Defender. I just pulled up my list builder...

Col. Vessery w/ VI

3 x Tempest Squadron w/ X1 + Accuracy Corrector

99 pts

Let there be locks!

Col. (Meat grinder) Vessery synergizes better with a higher skill pilot that can get him a lock. If using low skill buddies he will have to wait till after the first engagement most likely to get a free TL.

What I really want for the defender is more cool pilots. Perhaps a level4/5 generic with an EPT. And a named pilot or two.

Imp aces two maarek and Vader in defenders with reduced PS and new abilities slightly weaker so as not to invalidate the advanced versions.

Vader still has two actions but one must be a focus say, and maarek choses three face down cards and picks one to flip over or something.

Two HLC defenders should eat up a Falcon pretty quick and you would still have 26 points for another decent ship. I would go with a shuttle or Tie advanced. The new auto thruster interceptor would be great if you knew you were going to face a turret.

Jonus, baby!

wouldn't actually play it because it's not my style, but I did run Jonus + 2 deltas w/HLC as half of my team epic list (other half: tie swarm )

No contest, those 3 were the terror of the table-top. Even though the swarm did all the blocking, they did most of the work chewing through 3 b-wings, Jan Ors HWK, and Dash Rendar

In normal games, I don't think I could throw that many points on a 6 health ship that boasts 3 fickle green dice for defenses. I will, however, run a pair of them with ions to chaperone the new auto-thrusting baron around.

Jonas works well because they ignore the two attack ship in favour of taking out a defender, with predator Jonas can put out respectable damage.

They should of course go for Jonas but you see what those two defenders can do with two rerolls and a focus it makes you sweat.

Jonas! That would be an excellent pick. I have been known to run Bombers just because 6 Hp are a lot to chew through for a bargain of 16 points for the cheapest so I am pretty familiar with them. Jonas would make a HLC defender supremely deadly.

Ran Brath today for store champs. HLC, Lone Wolf, Stealth. Went 2-1. He was ok, but I'd have certainly preferred Soontir (especially w/ Autothrusters) or either Phantom. I'll keep with them, but there is just something missing.

Ran Brath today for store champs. HLC, Lone Wolf, Stealth. Went 2-1. He was ok, but I'd have certainly preferred Soontir (especially w/ Autothrusters) or either Phantom. I'll keep with them, but there is just something missing.

What did you run with him?

An interesting effect of the new cannons is that you can run Manglers for a 3 point discount compared to HLCs in a Jonus Brother's list. Previously you could only do HLCs for 7 if you wanted a damage dealing cannon. Now you can do a minimum of 2x Deltas with Manglers for 68 + Jonus for 22 = 90 points. 10 points for customization instead of 4 with the previous versions. I'm not sure what the extra 6 gives you, but it's something to think about.

An interesting effect of the new cannons is that you can run Manglers for a 3 point discount compared to HLCs in a Jonus Brother's list. Previously you could only do HLCs for 7 if you wanted a damage dealing cannon. Now you can do a minimum of 2x Deltas with Manglers for 68 + Jonus for 22 = 90 points. 10 points for customization instead of 4 with the previous versions. I'm not sure what the extra 6 gives you, but it's something to think about.

I will take a Ion Pulse Missile and a Proximity mines on Jonus for 6 points Bob.

Bombs could really keep your opponents on guard when K-turning not could give a nice edge.

Tie Defender needs to be in a Empire aces, with Bombers. End of story.