So much interest in defenders. I have to admit initially I didn't like it, over costed and cant really turn. I did have some success very early against them with Bee's also. But then after a while I noticed that they seemed to do well against most lists. It is hard to compare them to another ship. Possibly Bee's but as for the Empire not much and at a stretch the Advanced, Phantom only because of shields. But I think its in its own category for sure with the white K, 3 shields and 3 agility. It is one of the few imperial ships that can take a hit including crits from an alpha strike and still keep going. I believe it has its place and if used correctly can be very deadly.

You've seen B-Wings do well against them? Of all the times I've used Defenders, B-Wings are like their favorite snack! That 1 agility is useless against Ion Cannons.

That is what I was wanting done also! That would make the Defender very unique but in my opinion with a white K-turn might make it too powerful. That is my favorite move with a Defender on the alpha strike. If I can line up an ion hit with room to K behind it is devastating to opponents especially if you can K into range 1.

Actually now that I think about it, isn't there a S&V ship that doesn't cancel dice results with ion weapons?

Just wanted to chime in here and say great thread, personally I love the Defender but have to admit I only started flying them to annoy my mate, and now I can't stop. My current go to list is a Double D list and Ive been flying it at any event I can get to, it's a little different to the builds I've seen on here...

============ Double D Mk2 ============

100 points Pilots ------

Rexler Brath (52) TIE Defender (37), Proton Rockets (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Lone Wolf (2), Stealth Device (3)

Colonel Vessery (48) TIE Defender (35), Cluster Missiles (4), Autoblaster (5), Veteran Instincts (1), Stealth Device (3)

Biggest problem I'm having at the moment is Double Decimator lists, they punish me hard, but I belive this game is mostly about practice and familiarity with your lists so I'm not gonna moan about the maths.

Honestly, turrets were why I went with Shield Upgrade in my Double Defender list. You could try trading Stealth Device for Hull Upgrades. It's better against big guns and bad dice. Other than that, I think you've got all the tools to drop Decimators hard. Cluster Missiles drop the Shields (and then some), Rex piles on the Crits. That's only the first turn, too. You should be able to either kill or severely reduce the damage output of one Decimator before you lose a Defender.

I tried out that dual Defender with decoy list and VI Rexler and it was a hoot!

My friend wanted to run the Worlds 2015 Fat Han list. The trick was whether or not to spend the 'tag' TL that Rexler has after Col Vessery does the Free TL + Focus. Think it could could give Phantoms a headache provided one can keep the two defenders within 1-2 of each other.

The plan was don't let up on the Falcon till it was a dead gundark while ignoring the Tala's... since Col. V was using his focus most of the time to dump 3-4 hits on the Falcon, he eventually went down to the nitpicks of the three angry Talas.

But in the end, 3 full Tala's were picked off by Rexler.

The list had a hard time vs. a mini swarm list consisting of Soontir, Howl, backstabber and a bunch of TIE's. Took out Soontir right on the get go, then Howlrunner, but the dice gods were cruel.

Cool, thanks for the account. I think that list actually matches up against the Worlds list fairly well. No Gunner and 3 2-Attack ships have a hard time against that many AGI3 hit points. I don't know what happened in your game, but I've found that killing 1 or 2 Talas early can really make killing the Falcon easier. You can do it quickly, there are less ships to block you, and the Falcon isn't putting out that much damage each turn, especially if you can get a kill in on a Z at Range 3. In regards to your second game, it's all about positioning. I've found myself being to aggressive against swarms and getting mobbed by close-range 3-dice attacks. Sometimes you get caught.

Love the defender. I'll echo some sentiments about needing to play them slow. Weight for the right moment to either zip past an opponent or unexpectedly do a short turn. I believe having the all the turns as red (edit: save the 3 of course) can make you more unpredictable since most folks will shy away from self stressing.

Has anyone done any testing to see if the Mangler is a reasonable take for vessery?

How annoying would it be if you ran 3 Delta's with Ion Cannons? Particularly against Bs, Ys and Deci's I'm guessing. Not much hope of avoiding it, though they're low PS could mean they get shot down first. Positioning would be very important.

Accidentally doubled up there. Apologies.

I believe having the all the turns as red can make you more unpredictable

Don't forget, your 3 turn is white.

The Defender is one of the first ships I bought (after the Firespray; IIRC I bought a Defender when I bought my first Core Set). I love the thing, but I really do lament both its price and its red turns.

I think that FFG creating title and other upgrades would allow you to customize your Defender, specializing it in one of several ways. The more options you have, and the more you have to pick and choose between them, the more interesting the Defender becomes.

Cannon: TIE Ad/x7. TIE Defender Only. Treat all Turn maneuvers as White.

Title: TIE/D Integrated Cannons. TIE Defender Only. Cannon upgrades cost -3 squad points, to a minimum of 0.

Title: TIE/IN Ace. TIE Defender Only. May only be equipped to non-unique pilots. Gain an EPT. [Alternatively: May only be equipped if you have a PS of 3 or higher.]

Has anyone done any testing to see if the Mangler is a reasonable take for vessery?

It's a bad value on its face for most ships with 3 Attack. The marginal value of changing a hit to a crit isn't worth 4 points; compare to Marksmanship, which isn't typically worth it at 3 points.

To be fair, Marksmanship effectively improves a hit to a crit only if that hit was first an eye. Natural hits are more common and so Mangler will key more often than Marksmanship. Additionally, Mangler is a cannon slot instead of an EPT, so it's not taking up that valuable real estate. Finally, Mangler doesn't allow an extra defense die at long range.

I still don't think I'd use it on an Attack 3 ship, though.

How annoying would it be if you ran 3 Delta's with Ion Cannons? Particularly against Bs, Ys and Deci's I'm guessing. Not much hope of avoiding it, though they're low PS could mean they get shot down first. Positioning would be very important.

Another defender list that I have wanted to try. I think this could be very good.

Has anyone done any testing to see if the Mangler is a reasonable take for vessery?

It's a bad value on its face for most ships with 3 Attack. The marginal value of changing a hit to a crit isn't worth 4 points; compare to Marksmanship, which isn't typically worth it at 3 points.

Agreed your going to have a re-roll from his ability and you keep those crits.

Ion or flachete for control is a different thing but I'd either go HLC or stick to base attacks personally.

The Defender is one of the first ships I bought (after the Firespray; IIRC I bought a Defender when I bought my first Core Set). I love the thing, but I really do lament both its price and its red turns.

I think that FFG creating title and other upgrades would allow you to customize your Defender, specializing it in one of several ways. The more options you have, and the more you have to pick and choose between them, the more interesting the Defender becomes.

Cannon: TIE Ad/x7. TIE Defender Only. Treat all Turn maneuvers as White.

Title: TIE/D Integrated Cannons. TIE Defender Only. Cannon upgrades cost -3 squad points, to a minimum of 0.

Title: TIE/IN Ace. TIE Defender Only. May only be equipped to non-unique pilots. Gain an EPT. [Alternatively: May only be equipped if you have a PS of 3 or higher.]

A title giving the Defender white turns, albeit at a cost or with competition, would certainly be interesting. As long as they're not green: the limits on the TIE defender's maneuverability on the green dial is what keeps PTL off of it.

Wouldn't mind a Title for the Defender that allowed you to turn any Green maneuver revealed into a White-1-Straight or Red-0.

Thanks to the Cannon Slot you either want the Defender staying at Range (HLC, Mangler) or move slowly and stay behind a target (Ion, Flechette).

The ability to move slow or stall would prove useful.

Cool, thanks for the account. I think that list actually matches up against the Worlds list fairly well. No Gunner and 3 2-Attack ships have a hard time against that many AGI3 hit points. I don't know what happened in your game, but I've found that killing 1 or 2 Talas early can really make killing the Falcon easier. You can do it quickly, there are less ships to block you, and the Falcon isn't putting out that much damage each turn, especially if you can get a kill in on a Z at Range 3. In regards to your second game, it's all about positioning. I've found myself being to aggressive against swarms and getting mobbed by close-range 3-dice attacks. Sometimes you get caught.

Pretty much the Falcon led the way and found my Defenders in between the Falcon and the Talas which were deployed off to corner. The Ion Pulse missile sorta reined the Falcon from the edges. Just wanted to burn that Falcon for sure.

Vs. the swarm that's exactly what happened, gunned down the two mains, Howlrunner and Soontir, was too aggressive and got mobbed. But will continue to fly your list more, it's a lot of fun... the other list I usually fly is a bunch of royals with Col v. with Opportunist... rolling 5 dice from Opp with TL from TC's on the Royals with a focus for hit conversion is fun... the trio's PS6 is alright with them moving all at the same time and all.

The Defender is one of those ships you've gotta know how to fly. Fly it wrong and the opponent'll just splat.

I see a lot of build guides but not many flying guides: the only one we ever got was Sable's Flight School for Lambdas. We really need some more big posts from the experts on certain ships detailing how to best to use them while not behind the refit requistion terminal but instead behind the flight stick.

I present to you Tycho Celchu's private tutoring session for gifted pilots: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128556-tycho-celchu-daredevil-101/

Excellent.

Now bring more.

Excellent points! I slow play my defender because at range 2-3 a 3 dice ship can still put the hurt on someone and with 3 agility it is at an advantage at longer range then most of its opponents.

Woah, woah, I really wouldn't say "slow play." If you mean sticking at a range that's not slow playing, slow playing is deliberately taking ages with your moves to run the tournament clock down.

Excellent points! I slow play my defender because at range 2-3 a 3 dice ship can still put the hurt on someone and with 3 agility it is at an advantage at longer range then most of its opponents.

Woah, woah, I really wouldn't say "slow play." If you mean sticking at a range that's not slow playing, slow playing is deliberately taking ages with your moves to run the tournament clock down.

I try to keep my distance as long as possible. Especially with a HLC the defender is in an advantageous position at longer range.

A ship like the Defender, even the lowly Delta Squad Pilot, can become a real issue. This is especially true in the endgame and a reason why I place them really high in my targeting priority.

A ship like the Defender, even the lowly Delta Squad Pilot, can become a real issue. This is especially true in the endgame and a reason why I place them really high in my targeting priority.

Absolutely. Defenders re a priority target because you never, ever want to be facing them in the endgame. The ability to 180 and retain actions (possibly paired with a HLC) means they're ideal closers.

That's why I believe Defenders work best in 3 ship lists where every target is a priority target - give your opponent tough decisions from the start.

A ship like the Defender, even the lowly Delta Squad Pilot, can become a real issue. This is especially true in the endgame and a reason why I place them really high in my targeting priority.

Absolutely. Defenders re a priority target because you never, ever want to be facing them in the endgame. The ability to 180 and retain actions (possibly paired with a HLC) means they're ideal closers.

That's why I believe Defenders work best in 3 ship lists where every target is a priority target - give your opponent tough decisions from the start.

Vader+ATC

Vessery+HLC

Stele+ATC

100points

A ship like the Defender, even the lowly Delta Squad Pilot, can become a real issue. This is especially true in the endgame and a reason why I place them really high in my targeting priority.

Absolutely. Defenders re a priority target because you never, ever want to be facing them in the endgame. The ability to 180 and retain actions (possibly paired with a HLC) means they're ideal closers.

That's why I believe Defenders work best in 3 ship lists where every target is a priority target - give your opponent tough decisions from the start.

Vader+ATC

Vessery+HLC

Stele+ATC

100points

Drop the HLC on Vessery for Engine Upgrade on Vader and Veteran Instinct on all 3, or predator on Vader, and you're good to go.

The Defender is one of the first ships I bought (after the Firespray; IIRC I bought a Defender when I bought my first Core Set). I love the thing, but I really do lament both its price and its red turns.

I think that FFG creating title and other upgrades would allow you to customize your Defender, specializing it in one of several ways. The more options you have, and the more you have to pick and choose between them, the more interesting the Defender becomes.

Cannon: TIE Ad/x7. TIE Defender Only. Treat all Turn maneuvers as White.

Title: TIE/D Integrated Cannons. TIE Defender Only. Cannon upgrades cost -3 squad points, to a minimum of 0.

Title: TIE/IN Ace. TIE Defender Only. May only be equipped to non-unique pilots. Gain an EPT. [Alternatively: May only be equipped if you have a PS of 3 or higher.]

This is perfect, a little something for everyone in there.

Been entertaining list where a pair of Defenders with Ion cannons cause a ship to fall behind and then get killed by an Elite pilot flanking wide. Sounds good on paper.....

Been entertaining list where a pair of Defenders with Ion cannons cause a ship to fall behind and then get killed by an Elite pilot flanking wide. Sounds good on paper.....

2 Deltas with ion cannons is 66 points. Just enough for Soontir, PTL, autothrusters, and targeting computer. Vader would fit nicely as well.