Not sure I agree with that. The possible combinations in a CCG/LCG are quite a bit higher then X-Wing. The number of possible combinations you can get into a 100 point list is a good bit smaller then the possible number of combinations you can have in a 60+ card deck.

The CCGs are not dice games, card turnover is very fast (even a broken card can just be hit by a kill spell) and the cards don't fly around.

A pack that contained every wave 1 pilot and upgrade would cost them little more than the cost of the cardboard and printing itself, plus packaging.

So it wouldn't take much to make a profit off of that. Although the question of lost sales comes into it.

You've already got all the Wave 1 cards if you've got the ships, if you don't have the ships you can't use the Wave 1 cards. Not a very sensible product.

Plus printing and shipping a ton of boxes of Wave 1 cards isn't exactly cheap. They might make a very small profit on it but it's not worth the time they could spend on much more profitable design and manufacturing tasks.

You've already got all the Wave 1 cards if you've got the ships, if you don't have the ships you can't use the Wave 1 cards.

There's a lot of upgrade cards that people may not have, or have enough of from Wave 1, even if they own 1 of each ship already.

For example there's Determination, Swarm Tactics, and Ion Cannon Turrets. All cards people may want more of. When you look at Wave 2 there's even more cards people may want from there, cards that they don't have because they only bought 1 of a given ship.

There is a question of how much sales of ships may be hurt by such a thing, but that's not something we can really know the answer to. How many YT-1300's get sold for the sake of the ship vs the Engine Upgrade?

Plus printing and shipping a ton of boxes of Wave 1 cards isn't exactly cheap.

Yeah it is, I worked as a printer for a few years, I know how cheap it is. They could crank out a ton of cards in very little time, and have next to no impact on other products, especially X-Wing, since the models are what take all the time to produce.

A box of Wave 1 cards would be almost pure profit. It would cost them nothing in design, little in materials, and little in packaging.

I'm not saying FFG should do it, in fact they've said they don't have any plans on it. But it could be profitable, the question is how much and if it's an net increase or not.

The £10 CCG expansions come with loads of cards because that's the nature of the game and because it's comparatively less taxing in terms of playtesting to make a CCG card (with a few exceptions) than an X-wing card. Also, look at the size of a Netrunner expansion: making a card only pack with enough cards to be sellable without the ship would double a faction's pilots in one shot.

You are aware that they don't playtest each individual pack separately? That each cycle is designed and playtested at the same time? And generally speaking, printing off 3 identical card sheets is much cheaper than printing and sorting a pack with a varied amount of cards. Much less any card board elements you need to add if you want pilots (also, different sized cards).

Also, I think you may be overestimating the cost of the minis to FFG. The question is, why would they make something that they reasonably cannot charge more than $8, when they can add a very cheap mini and charge $15. The minis add a value to the cost. There is a reason they include standard usable stuff in with the Epics. FFG, while not as bad as other companies, wants you to buy as much as possible. And they have been masters of promoting cross buying.

I still favour it for a one off top-up pack to give everyone access to the non-Epic cards included with Epic ships (and potentially a few handy duplicates of other cards like Predator, PtL or VI). Regarding the above posts:

a) The arguments above regarding people buying the ship for the cards don't apply to Epic ship packs (and several people have chirped in saying they don't buy the ship for the cards even with normal packs, but would buy just the cards if the option were there)

b) There is a profit margin to be had since with this particular set of cards they aren't cutting into Ship sales, production of cards is cheap and there's a huge market for it. (Pretty much every player I know would buy it, as most of them haven't bought any Epic ships but would love some of the cards).

c) To add to b) it would actually increase sales of other ship products that people might be avoiding due to being unable to get the cards they'd want to run on that particular ship. It would also increase general good will, as I know having certain cards stuck in Epic packs has left some people (at least locally here) feeling a little shafted.

d) With the right selection it will make the game more accessible to new players, especially those with interest in tournaments, as the ship and card pool is getting to the point where competitive or completionist entry isn't that cheap anymore.

I still favour it for a one off top-up pack to give everyone access to the non-Epic cards included with Epic ships (and potentially a few handy duplicates of other cards like Predator, PtL or VI). Regarding the above posts:

a) The arguments above regarding people buying the ship for the cards don't apply to Epic ship packs (and several people have chirped in saying they don't buy the ship for the cards even with normal packs, but would buy just the cards if the option were there)

b) There is a profit margin to be had since with this particular set of cards they aren't cutting into Ship sales, production of cards is cheap and there's a huge market for it. (Pretty much every player I know would buy it, as most of them haven't bought any Epic ships but would love some of the cards).

c) To add to b) it would actually increase sales of other ship products that people might be avoiding due to being unable to get the cards they'd want to run on that particular ship. It would also increase general good will, as I know having certain cards stuck in Epic packs has left some people (at least locally here) feeling a little shafted.

d) With the right selection it will make the game more accessible to nee players, especially those with interest in tournaments, as the ship and card pool is getting to the point where competitive or completionist entry isn't that cheap anymore.

So if I am reading you properly here the main gist is you don't want to buy into epic but you would like to have access to all the goodies?

I can understand the sentiment...but I have some issues with your argument...

A.

Why shouldnt the same line of reasoning apply to epic packs? There are people out there who do buy the epic packs for the cards...or use the demand to subsidize a second purchase...

B.

There may be a margin...but I doubt it's high enough to overturn their current distribution model...which is why we have not seen this happen. It could end up being a net loss in the long run...or at the minimum not worth the risk to the corner regime. What is being suggested here is a rewriting of their core distribution model.

C.

This is doubtful and sounds very much like wishful thinking...the people in this category aren't going to buy into epic anyway and probably spend that money on new ships or perhaps some other ffg products.

D.

This has almost nothing to do with new players...there are plenty of builds out there that require no epic cards...and most of the players I have met would gladly loan a card or two to help a player in need...one of the nice things about this community I have noticed...

I wouldn't count on it becoming a reality. There are a large number of people who will plink down that money weather or not the plan on actually using the ship...a great many based on what I have read around here. The company needs to drum up more excitement for epic and including a few awesome sought after cards is a good way to do it. If they sold those cards separately how much less do you think they would make? I don't have the numbers of course but based on the fact that this hasn't been done despite the and gnashing of teeth (from previous threads...not accusing you here) leads me to believe that the margin on this idea just isn't good enough for them...

That's my take anyway...

I still favour it for a one off top-up pack to give everyone access to the non-Epic cards included with Epic ships (and potentially a few handy duplicates of other cards like Predator, PtL or VI). Regarding the above posts:

Hate to break it to you, but it will never happen. Do you have any idea how long the LCG players have been clamoring for such a pack as a way to get playsets of cards of their core sets (have to get a third core to get a playset on a small handful of cards). Certain cards will make their way to other products, sure. But the pilots/unique upgrades will never be seen in a different expansion.

There is a question of how much sales of ships may be hurt by such a thing, but that's not something we can really know the answer to. How many YT-1300's get sold for the sake of the ship vs the Engine Upgrade?

This. My sole reason to get a second YT-1300 would be for more copies of Engine Upgrade. However, I am hoping that it will show up in another expansion if I wait.