Hello... I have no idea if this forums denizens have a nickname for themselves like some of the other forums I've frequented do (First post here, woo!)

Anyway, I picked up the starter set after Christmas, and, well, I'm hooked. I love the simple yet deep manuvering system (Dancing out of my opponent's firing arc via clever planning was very satisfyint), the ease of setting up the game, and the fact I can run a swarm without breaking the bank, something I can't do with, say, 40k. However, as I expand my force (Currently two starter sets, an E-wing, and hopefully another Tie Fighter unless the vendor I bought it from online was sold out and hasn't updated their site*), I'm developing a few questions about list building.

1) How valuable is pilot skill? I can see how getting to choose your action after you've seen your opponent's move and action is valuable, and shooting first is what saved Han from Greedo (Heh), but is it the sort of thing I should prioritize, or will Academy Pilots and Rookie Pilots serve me well?

2) Are missiles and torpedoes worth it? 4 points seems like a lot for one use of proton torpedoes, when they're only a marginal improvement to the average damage of a target locked shot from an X-wing or E-wing. And is the stress token from a flechette Torpedo worth a target lock and 2 points?

3) Warhammer 40000, the other miniatures game I play, has a number of list writing taboos (In particular, it is really, really bad form to write the cost of individual upgrades down. For one thing, it makes the list unsightly when you're running a unit with a ton of upgrades. For another, the manufacturer gets ticked since they let people discuss just about every other part of the codex online, so wargear prices being written out makes piracy even easier). Now, with the rulebook as a free pdf, I imagine FFG isn't going to go out and send cease and desists for listing upgrade costs, but is there any general advice for how to write and order your Squad list?

4) Assuming the tie fighter comes in*, what would be a good point value for me to pit my Imperial and Rebel Forces against each other (A number of people have learned the basics of the game including my Sister, but have no models of their own)? I was thinking 80, but I could see 75 working too.

5) I'm debating what I should purchase to expand my forces- The Lambda Shuttle and Y-wing appeal to me (The Lambda is another force multiplier for my swarm, while the Y-wing has an ion turret, which impressed me during the tournament I watched), and I'm wondering if they're considered competitive, and if they'd fit into my current forces.

Thanks for the advice!

*I set it to all ship in one box, but the Tie wasn't in the shipping order with the starter set. Hence my uncertainty

(First post here, woo!)

Welcome

1) How valuable is pilot skill?

Depends

Right now, there's little difference between PS7 and 1 for a large chunk of the meta. That's because of Phantoms mostly. Most people shoot for 9-10 or else don't worry about it much.

Generally speaking though, lower PS means lower cost, and more ships is still in general better than less. Plus low PS has an advantage when blocking other ships, since you move first they run into you.

2) Are missiles and torpedoes worth it?

For the most part no. The points are better spent somewhere else.

3)but is there any general advice for how to write and order your Squad list?

No not really, unlike 40k (which a lot of us either play or used to play) there's no codex so no reason to keep costs hidden.

We tend to abbreviate a lot of stuff though so that can be confusing.

Top of this form is the Useful Links section I highly recommend checking it out, and checking out some of the list building sites out there.

4) Assuming the tie fighter comes in*, what would be a good point value for me to pit my Imperial and Rebel Forces against each other

Standard games are 100 points, if you have Z-95's any value works, but if you don't the values divisible by 12 can be a bit unbalanced in favor of the Empire. Because that means another tie, but not another rebel ship.

5)I'm wondering if they're considered competitive, and if they'd fit into my current forces.

Yes and Yes. Very few ships are considered uncompetitive, not all shine, but for the most part everything is useful.

Pilot skill is fairly situational and depends on what other ships your likely to face (the meta). I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. In the early days of the game, a swarm of PS 1 TIEs and a single named TIE was a very very good list. That list is still good, but it doesn't dominate the way it used to.

Ordnance, not so much. They are getting better at releasing missiles and torps that are worth the cost, but even still, I wouldn't bother with them until you are more familiar with the game.

No real restrictions on what you can post. FFG may get involved if you went and started posting high res scans of actual cards on a personal blog, but other than that they are pretty cool. There are even a number of online squad building sites that let you experiment and tweak lists without having to get your actual cards out. My favorite is Yet another X-Wig Squad Builder

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/

For point levels in your early games, it sounds like the rebel ships you have will be the limiting factor so try putting together a list for your rebel ships and then match it with your TIEs.

Lambda shuttles are a good ship, but they can be very difficult to fly. There have been many articles on how to get the most out of a lambda, try searching for "Lambda Flight School 101" for a good and very enjoying read (there is a 102 as well).

Welcome aboard

You did well picking this game

It truly is awesome

To answer your questions

1) point score can be important

Shooting before low ps ships can at times kill a ship before it even gets a chance to fire back.

However, low ps ships you can fit more in a 100 pt list and are great blockers.

They will get their actions and high ps ships won't. Which actually can be in the low ps ships advantage

Especially when they get in range one.

Sometimes a mix is nice. Low ps to block and high to shoot before others.

2) No, as it is now they are not really worth it. There are much better upgrades to sink points into for the price.

Though in friendly games, loading up four bombers is fun.

Problem is on low ps ships you often move before your opponent, and unable to get in target lock range, then he moves and gets in range, but your unable to fire since no target lock.

Next round you get that lock but now he is range one.

Also they require some assistance as you need to spend the target lock but now you have nothing to modify, so you need ways to get extra action or pass actions.

Nothing worse than botching a roll and waste four pts.

Proton rockets and homing missles are good because they don't require you to spend your focus/target lock

Which leaves you a token to modify with, but even so, for a one time use, there are usually better investments

3) No, I'm not aware of anything, buy i never played Warhammer, so I'm unfamiliar with what your asking here

4) You can use whatever amount of pts you like. We use to roll a 10 sided dice and use a simple formula for squad pts and then come up with our lists.

Just so long as everyone has enough ships to field the amount. 1-2 pts in the difference no big deal, but if there is 5-10 or more you may start seeing unbalanced issues.

Standard tournament is 100 pts which a lot use as default

5) I believe at least have one of everything to be honest. Especially if you want to have ships for friends and family to use.

The shuttle is a great ship imo. The ywing is fun, but not in many top competitive lists. You may see one every now and then.

You already have two core sets which is an excellent start. A xwing and tie expansion is probably the next I'd want to get for the pilots

Wedge is awesome, and howlrunner is a must for swarms or mini swarms. Not a must for mini swarms, but she still finds a home.

Firesprays

Shuttle

Falcon.

Bwing

Interceptor

Imperial/rebel ace packs.

Phantom

Defender

Ywing

Hwk

Actually I'm probably going to name them all. Lol. As i said, I think over time you'll want one of everything. Even if you don't want the ship there maybe upgrades or another pilot you may want.

But if your playing at home you can always proxy in what you need. If you plan on attending tournaments, then you will need to have the appropriate upgrades and everything that comes with expansions

I'm probably been nj'd as I had to stop mid post to have supper, buy hope this helps

Welcome Welcome

Vanor & Lore seem to have everything well covered but hell i like the sound of my own voice so i'll repeat them for my own pleasure...

1) the value of pilot skill (PS) is very much dependent on what you have, what you are facing and what you plan to do.

Movement/actions;

As you know having a higher PS means you move second but shoot first. A Pro of moving second is you know where your opponent will be for the coming combat phase. Whilst this won't generally help you with your movement decision (as it was set in the planning phase) it will allow you to optimize your action choice. for example if your move puts you in harms way you can choose an action to adjust your position to remedy the situation (such as using a boost or barrel roll action to get back out of your opponent's firing arc). Even if re-positioning isn't possible, or won't help you, acting second will allow you to choose the most suitable action for your situation (like taking an evade action if you have no shot but he does or taking a target lock in a reversed situation). On the flip side having a lower PS and therefore moving first allows you to mess up your opponents plans by landing your ships where he would like to move his. Whilst this doesn't appear to be a massive advantage you will quickly learn that performing actions greatly enhances a ships abilities and being denied the chance to perform an action (because you finish your move colliding with another ship) is a HUGE disadvantage... this therefore is a big Pro for low PS's.

Shooting;

Generally its much better to shoot first, if you kill your target he doesn't get to shoot back (unless he has equal PS of course) so high PS tends to rule here. I say "tends" to because there are certain situations where it would be advantageous to shoot after someone else but i wouldn't worry about these specific situations as a newbie.

As a very basic rule i'd say it's preferable to have a higher PS than your opponent if he outnumbers you, if you outnumber him it isn't as important. There is lots more minutae you could discuss on this topic but i'm rambling enough as it is so i'll stop here...:-/

2) ordinance is very situational. On a very basic level ordinance has the greatest advantage on low attack dice ships (like A-wings, Z-95's, Tie Bombers & Tie Advanced's) and isn't worth it on 3 attack value ships. This is obviously somewhat oversimplified but for starting out i'd leave ordinance out unless you were trying to even up the points costs of the opposing squads with limited numbers of ships

3) as stated above neither FFG or any players have issue with itemizing lists and there are some great electronic squad builders out there. if anything everyone discussing squad builds will itemize their builds for transparency...

4) std games are 100pts but with only two starter sets and an e-wing expansion that may be a little tricky without bolting on as many upgrades as you can (especially for the 4 tie fighters you will currently have). I would advise limiting upgrades to begin with and concentrate on the basics so 60-70 points would be more viable for you at this stage. this'll probably have you playing 2 rebel vs 4 imperial ship squads for the moment... (but still great fun i assure you)

5) All ships have their pros and cons and generally all ships are competitive enough to be on the field (and threads arguing over underpowered/overpowered ships are generally looking at smaller differences than they make out and are akin to a car journalist bitching about a car being slow because it's 0-60 time is 0.5 seconds slower than another). If i were you i'd choose ships you like the look/feel of (keeping the rebel/imperial lists approximately equal strength if you are providing all the ships). The Y-wing is a sound choice at your stage but i would consider swapping the lambda for a firespray if you are insistent on getting a large based imperial ship as they are much more newbie friendly to fly..

Thanks for the advice. I'd heard good things about the firespray, so that'd be a nice choice too, although I wanted a mini-swarm of ties, so I need 50 or so points for that.

An advantage of the ambiguity of pilot skill in the game is that you can not worry about it too much while you are learning. Generic pilots are usually pretty good buys (maybe not in a few cases) and you can just take the lowest cost pilots while you are learning to fly and maneuver well and not worry that your screwing yourself or missing some vital element. Then, once you are more comfortable with the ships you can start adding in the higher PS pilots (and their abilities) and by then you'll have a better idea of what impact PS has on the game.

Hello... I have no idea if this forums denizens have a nickname for themselves like some of the other forums I've frequented do (First post here, woo!)

Greetings! I see that some other brilliant folks from the forums have chipped in, but I'd love to throw in my 2 cents as well

1) How valuable is pilot skill? I can see how getting to choose your action after you've seen your opponent's move and action is valuable, and shooting first is what saved Han from Greedo (Heh), but is it the sort of thing I should prioritize, or will Academy Pilots and Rookie Pilots serve me well?

The benefits to having the higher pilot skill are obvious. Less obvious are the benefits of having a lower pilot skill.

• When setting your dial, you know what the board will look like, so any collisions will be due to pilot error.
• When activating, you get to move first. That means that if you move so that your opponent will collide with you, you don't lose your action, and get to have your full maneuver. Higher PS doesn't have this ability.
• When defending, you don't have to agonize over whether to save your Focus token for defense, or use it for greater damage. Focus actions are therefore less likely to be wasted with a lower PS pilot, and therefore more valuable.
• You're cheaper, buying more points for other/better ships in your squad
• You're cheaper, therefore becoming less of a target for opponents in a game where total-annihilation is implausible.

In Wave 3 (Bombers and Shuttles vs B-Wings and HWKs, and all the previous expansions), the unskilled pilots were the dominant force. The logic was that More Guns > Named Pilots.

Now-a-days, we're sitting on a High-PS bidding war, due almost entirely to the TIE Phantom's Advanced Cloak modification, which turns it into a very maneuverable beast with 4/4/2/2 stats if you're shooting after it. Sicknasty. However, the Scum and Villany faction will probably knock us back to a mid-PS metagame.

2) Are missiles and torpedoes worth it? 4 points seems like a lot for one use of proton torpedoes, when they're only a marginal improvement to the average damage of a target locked shot from an X-wing or E-wing. And is the stress token from a flechette Torpedo worth a target lock and 2 points?

Rarely. The newer it is, the more competitively it's priced, for sure. You've basially hit the problem on the proverbial nail-head, though.

However, there is the Alpha Strike fleet archetype, which buys one per ship, and attempts to buy their cost back through damage on the first round. Z-95s excel at this.

Also, if you're planning on using them meaningfully, it might behoove you to pick up a Munitions Failsafe for 1 point, allowing you to keep the ordnance if it deals no damage, and fire it again at a later turn.

There are some shining examples among the dross, though.

• Flechette Torpedoes are astonishingly cost effective. That stress can be a life-saver, it's a 3 die attack, and can actually do something when it misses as well.
• Ion Torpedoes are expensive, but very interesting. The ability to Ionize multiple ships with a single attack and the ability to Ionize a ship without losing damage to do so is a brilliant design. Playtesting has yet to determine whether it is worth its cost yet, but it looks promising.
• Proton Rockets are also absolutely brilliant when used with ships with 3 agility. A 5 die attack at range 1 is enough to terrify folks into flying differently, even if you don't get to pop it off. Similarly, the fact that it's Focus-based means you can fire it at whomever you wish, rather than the single telegraphed target-lock. And you don't have to spend your Focus to launch the Rockets, so your dice are still Modified!
• Cluster Missiles are brilliant with a repeatable non-action way of modifying dice, and are the nightmare of anything with less than 2 agility.
• Assault Missiles annoy the swarm individually. However, if your Alpha-Strike list is with these, then anyone flying in formation is going to take massive amounts of damage. Each of these has the potential to deal 11 damage to an enemy fleet, if conditions are right.

3) Warhammer 40000, the other miniatures game I play, has a number of list writing taboos (In particular, it is really, really bad form to write the cost of individual upgrades down. For one thing, it makes the list unsightly when you're running a unit with a ton of upgrades. For another, the manufacturer gets ticked since they let people discuss just about every other part of the codex online, so wargear prices being written out makes piracy even easier). Now, with the rulebook as a free pdf, I imagine FFG isn't going to go out and send cease and desists for listing upgrade costs, but is there any general advice for how to write and order your Squad list?

We have no such taboo here. The more easily understood your list is, the better, as we'll typically try to help you improve it here.

Heck, we have several websites that help you build your fleets. Here's my favorite

I recommend writing your Pilot at the top, all individual upgrades below, tabbed over, and then a total for the entire ship.

Example:

Biggs Darklighter

+ R4-B6

-=26=-

Luke Skywalker

+ Draw Their Fire

+ R5-P9

-=32=-

Corran Horn

+ Draw Their Fire

+ R2-D2

+ Fire-Control Systems

-=42=-

4) Assuming the tie fighter comes in*, what would be a good point value for me to pit my Imperial and Rebel Forces against each other (A number of people have learned the basics of the game including my Sister, but have no models of their own)? I was thinking 80, but I could see 75 working too.

75 is more balanced than 80, but there's actually a format (called Escalation) which starts at 60 (then the next game is 90, then 120, then 150, each including the previous list in its entirety. I enjoy it thoroughly).

So, I'd recommend 60 or 75, until you can get to the 100 mark without stretching.

5) I'm debating what I should purchase to expand my forces- The Lambda Shuttle and Y-wing appeal to me (The Lambda is another force multiplier for my swarm, while the Y-wing has an ion turret, which impressed me during the tournament I watched), and I'm wondering if they're considered competitive, and if they'd fit into my current forces.

The Shuttle is an amazing combo-engine, and broke the idea that Upgrades aren't as good as More Ships.

That being said, there are a few upgrades you want to get for it first.

• Engine Upgrade, only available from the Millennium Falcon expansion
• Fire-Control Systems, only available from the B-Wing and TIE Phantom expansions
• Gunner, only available from the Slave-1 and YT-2400 expansions

The shuttle really can't turn without an EU.

FCS + Gunner combo beautifully: the second attack from the Gunner always has a Target Lock to modify it, even if you don't get actions

Other "Standard" shuttle upgrades are :

• Heavy Laser Cannon: available in the expansion.

  You'll probably want the Engine Upgrade as well, though.

• Darth Vader (Crew): available in the expansion.

  You don't want to add any more upgrades to this card, though. Your goal is to deal enough damage that you don't care when you self-detonate.

• Advanced Sensors: available in the expansion, and with the E-Wing set.

  Only take this with an Engine Upgrade.

I'll also happily point out that Colonel Jendon, the shuttle pilot who gives away Target Locks, can do so to ships that do not have it in their action bar. Like your 5 TIE fighters.

Probably the "Next" set to get for you, though, is either Imperial Aces (you get 2 TIE Interceptors in one expansion, and it's a doozy of a pack), or the Slave-1 expansion (The Firespray-31 is incredible, and also fills your squad points out nicely).

Thanks for the feedback on points and strategy. Seems like the consensus is a firespray or imperial aces pack is the best way to go from here. I'll see if I can have an After Action Report up when I play Thursday.

If I got the firespray, Kath scarlet with a Gunner seems like a good fit. But what about the Aces? I'm kind of scratching my head as to how to fit them into the swarm/mini-swarm I want to run.

Thanks for the feedback on points and strategy. Seems like the consensus is a firespray or imperial aces pack is the best way to go from here. I'll see if I can have an After Action Report up when I play Thursday.

If I got the firespray, Kath scarlet with a Gunner seems like a good fit. But what about the Aces? I'm kind of scratching my head as to how to fit them into the swarm/mini-swarm I want to run.

well you don't have to run the intercepters as unique pilots, you can just run them as alpha/sabre pilots if you wanted to... the interceptor should be able to match the std tie fighter movements without issue so it shouldn't be a major issue incorporating them with a tie swarm if you wanted to fly them in formation (which isn't essential)... experimental play-testing is part of the fun of the game so i'm not going to ruin this process by offering any specific pilots/loadouts straight off the bat...

At the end of the day it's all down to personal taste and what one person likes another may not. my suggestion is get a different type of ship each time you add to your forces and give them a play test, you'll soon learn which ships you love/hate. i'd do this before buying multiples of any one ship type to avoid buying into a ship you don't end up using much...

A quick word of wisdom-if you don't like the way a ship flies consider whether you are using it as intended-my first few games with defenders had me hating them as they got stressed easily and struggled to shed it. turns out i was trying to force it to fly like an interceptor (which, like A-wing's, love tricksy twisting and turning dogfighting) instead of repeatedly jousting with your opponent, using the absolutely fabulous white K-turn after each pass. Once i learned this lesson i've not hated the way a ship flies since...

Well, I don't have quite enough for a full fledge after action report- After a while, the turns started to blur together. But, here's the summary.

Game 1: Teaching with the basic game, I play as imperials. Opponent was still learning to visualize the manuvers, so I was able to easily out manuver him.

Game 2: I play as Corran Horn+Biggs vs. the same guy, this time playing Night Beast, Dark Curse, Mauler Mithel, and Academy Pilot. In hindsight, a swarm was a bad idea for a new player, as he was bumping himself nearly every turn. Combined with some lucky dice rolls, Corran blew him out while Biggs only lost his shields.

Game 3: A vmore experienced player, using Luke+R2+Flecchete+Determination( and a Red Squadron Pilot+R7-F2. I used 2 Academy Pilots, Mauler Mithel with Determination*, and a Black Squadron Pilot with Outmanuver. It initially went pretty well, but in hindsight I should have focused on the Red Squadron Pilot first so I could then turn my entire force on Luke, because he just would. not. die. The game was ultimately called on acount of me needing to catch the bus, but I think he would have gotten me eventually.

*It's the only one point upgrade I have

As a sort of secondary thing on the "pilot skill" conversation, one thing to keep in mind is that there's really no wrong answer. There are benefits to having higher PS. There are benefits to having lower PS. There are benefits to having a mixed PS (some cheap guys for blockers, some higher PS guys to deal damage). One thing that hasn't come up, though, is that it's often pretty cool to have the same PS across multiple ships, too!

Navigating with my current list -- two Bounty Hunters (the low-cost Firespray 31/Slave 1 ship) and Carnor Jax (a pretty high PS TIE Interceptor) -- one of the things that really helps is that the two large-based ships I've got, who tend to fly near each other, have the same PS. So I get to choose which of those moves first, and which one shoots first. Having that sort of flexibility is really handy, from turn to turn, especially as I'm still getting used to large bases. If I've got one of them potentially flying towards his buddy, I can move the buddy first (just to make sure there's lots of room, avoiding a collision), for instance. If one of 'em has a great shot with Focus and a Target Lock lined up, and the other just has a mediocre shot without any action help, I can have the lame guy go first (and maybe he rolls well, and I get lucky so my opponent has to spend their Focus or Evade, leaving them wide open for my more dangerous shot).

So, yeah. Low PS is awesome because you can block your opponent and kind of shape the battlefield, almost always getting your actions and cutting off your opponent's schemes. High PS is awesome because you can react to your opponent's decisions, take a different action based on what they did, and because you can blow them outta the sky before they can shoot back. A mix of PS is awesome because you can try to get the best of both worlds in different ships. All the same PS is awesome because you have flexibility and get to choose what order to activate your ships in.

All PS is awesome (and that's awesome!). To me, it's one of the most impressive things about the game, to be honest. The trick is to figure out what PS combo works for you, just like everything else in the game. One guy's super awesome list might just not "click" with you, while maybe you're an ace with ships everyone else thinks stink. Play lots of games, see what you like, what you have fun with, and what you fly well. The galaxy's a big place, there's room for lots of different fleets out there.