I understand that if a tournament starts at 6 pm that no one wants to be there until midnight, I get that. But too many games go to time, games that otherwise would have been won by the losing player.

Real time limits have no place in a non-real time game. It punishes flying more ships, it rewards obnoxious fat turret stuff that doesn't die unless you focus it down from turn 1, it allows for the completely ambigious gray area that is, "slow playing", and no game stores seem to have clocks.

So there should be a turn limit. That way it's clear how many turns you have, and slow playing isn't possible. It allows swarm players to have more of a chance and not just get 1 damage away from killing Chewbacca, lose a Tie, and have time called.

Nah its fine the the way it is. Tell the store or TO to start earlier if you don't want to be there that late or just don't go.

We always start our tournaments at around 9am takes care of the problem, we even take lunch in the middle

Don't play in timed tournaments with teams that are weak against turtle players?

Less snarky reply: I know it can be frustrating, but it is a limit of people's lives and venue's costs to stay at a game to support for people who take 10+ minutes a turn. If you are having trouble with certain lists, then find a strategy that beats it without going to time.

I understand that if a tournament starts at 6 pm that no one wants to be there until midnight, I get that. But too many games go to time, games that otherwise would have been won by the losing player.

Real time limits have no place in a non-real time game. It punishes flying more ships, it rewards obnoxious fat turret stuff that doesn't die unless you focus it down from turn 1, it allows for the completely ambigious gray area that is, "slow playing", and no game stores seem to have clocks.

So there should be a turn limit. That way it's clear how many turns you have, and slow playing isn't possible. It allows swarm players to have more of a chance and not just get 1 damage away from killing Chewbacca, lose a Tie, and have time called.

You'll still have the same sorts of issue with any sort of limits. Unless you play the game until someone is tabled there will always be a game that the person who would eventually win would lose due to the limit and people that will game the limit.

At least with a time limit all of the tables are finishing at about the same time keeping the tournament on track. With a turn limit you'd have a wide window of when games were finishing.

I understand that if a tournament starts at 6 pm that no one wants to be there until midnight, I get that. But too many games go to time, games that otherwise would have been won by the losing player.

Real time limits have no place in a non-real time game. It punishes flying more ships, it rewards obnoxious fat turret stuff that doesn't die unless you focus it down from turn 1, it allows for the completely ambigious gray area that is, "slow playing", and no game stores seem to have clocks.

So there should be a turn limit. That way it's clear how many turns you have, and slow playing isn't possible. It allows swarm players to have more of a chance and not just get 1 damage away from killing Chewbacca, lose a Tie, and have time called.

Words cannot tell you just how wrong you are.

At a store championship I played a match against a whisper/boba list. Focused Boba down early but couldn't get whisper but only lost 24 points so I won when it went to time. Phantom debates aside I feel like that ship is an example as to why we should have a time limit. Yeah, whisper might have been able to single handedly take down my list given enough time but that's the downside of using a ship to always arc dodge and not go for riskier, quicker kill shots.

If you took the average amount of turns played in a 60 minute match and just set that as the limit, the games wouldn't be far off from when a 60 minute game would end.

Like I just said in another thread on a similar subject, I have never seen a game go to time. Closest had the guy's last ship killed about 2 minutes before time was called, but it didn't actually get there.

Real time limits are absolutely necessary in tournaments where it is important for rounds to be consistent and for the event to end in a timely manner. Outside of tournaments, I don't think time limits are all that common. People just play until someone wins or they have to go do something else.

I don't know how but in my 10 months of tournaments ive never gone to time. Quite a few have been 60 minute rounds and ive had a few down to 3 minutes or less. I would rather win or lose because I deserved it.

Yeah as others have said, this would destroy any way to have a tournament function.

Imagine in the first round a game going 3 hours. Now the other 30 people are stuck sitting around and waiting for that game to be over because they can't start the 2nd round until they know who won that game.

I hate turn limits in games without a story/gameplay reason for such a limit. Time limits in tourneys are designed to keep the tourney running smoothly and end within a reasonable amount of time. Replacing the time limit with a turn limit would be just as arbitrary, have the same downfalls, but less benefits to the logistics of running an event.

1.) If you took the average amount of turns played in a 60 minute game and set that as the round limit, games would still end at about the same time as 60 minutes, except now you have a more well defined limit, instead of, "there are 10 minutes left, we could play 2 turns or I could just slow play and only do 1 that way you can't kill my dumb fat ship and I'll win with two Tie Fighters killed". I've had it happen where in the last few rounds my opponent struck up a conversation and slow played, and I got screwed out of another turn, seemingly as revenge for asking for an FAQ lookup. If I were to bring this up, I would be, "That guy".

2.) Of course no one is going to time when every list has 2 ships. I played 6 ships at a store championship and only one of my rounds ended with me completely wiping someone, no one completely wiped me, so pretty much all my wins/loses went to time. I wasn't intentionally slow playing, I was actually trying to play faster that way I wouldn't screw myself out of turns.

At a store championship I played a match against a whisper/boba list. Focused Boba down early but couldn't get whisper but only lost 24 points so I won when it went to time. Phantom debates aside I feel like that ship is an example as to why we should have a time limit. Yeah, whisper might have been able to single handedly take down my list given enough time but that's the downside of using a ship to always arc dodge and not go for riskier, quicker kill shots.

3.) SInce I don't fly fat turrets or my hard counter ps 12 swarm tactics ion control Phantom player tear siphon list anymore, my strategy against super Phantoms is just to kill everything but the Phantom and hope I win on time (This is because the super Phantom is blatantly overpowered and strangles the meta). You'd still be able to run down the round limit against a Phantom player if there was a round limit instead of a time limit.

I'd really prefer just adjusting the mov to somehow include damage done to surviving ships.

1.) If you took the average amount of turns played in a 60 minute game and set that as the round limit, games would still end at about the same time as 60 minutes, except now you have a more well defined limit, instead of, "there are 10 minutes left, we could play 2 turns or I could just slow play and only do 1 that way you can't kill my dumb fat ship and I'll win with two Tie Fighters killed". I've had it happen where in the last few rounds my opponent struck up a conversation and slow played, and I got screwed out of another turn, seemingly as revenge for asking for an FAQ lookup. If I were to bring this up, I would be, "That guy".

2.) Of course no one is going to time when every list has 2 ships. I played 6 ships at a store championship and only one of my rounds ended with me completely wiping someone, no one completely wiped me, so pretty much all my wins/loses went to time. I wasn't intentionally slow playing, I was actually trying to play faster that way I wouldn't screw myself out of turns.

At a store championship I played a match against a whisper/boba list. Focused Boba down early but couldn't get whisper but only lost 24 points so I won when it went to time. Phantom debates aside I feel like that ship is an example as to why we should have a time limit. Yeah, whisper might have been able to single handedly take down my list given enough time but that's the downside of using a ship to always arc dodge and not go for riskier, quicker kill shots.

3.) SInce I don't fly fat turrets or my hard counter ps 12 swarm tactics ion control Phantom player tear siphon list anymore, my strategy against super Phantoms is just to kill everything but the Phantom and hope I win on time (This is because the super Phantom is blatantly overpowered and strangles the meta). You'd still be able to run down the round limit against a Phantom player if there was a round limit instead of a time limit.

And yet, your proposal solves NONE of those issues. You are going to have to describe the difference between going to time and going to the turn limit. Because I don't see a difference. Only that you screw those that play quicker games and get more rounds.

I'd really prefer just adjusting the mov to somehow include damage done to surviving ships.

Seeing how they deal with tiebreakers in SWLCG, no, you don't.

games would still end at about the same time as 60 minutes

No they may end in 60 minutes, but there's nothing that says they actually will. Even without stalling, it's completely possible for both players to simply take a lot of time to plan and carry out their moves.

That means you have games that may end in 45, but then also have games that will go 60, 75, 80 or even 90 minutes. Since you can't count each game ending at the same time, you have people sitting around and waiting for the slowest pair to finish.

Over the course of 8 games even with a single game only going over by 15 minutes each round, you're looking at as much as 2 hours longer for the event to take place.

1.) If you took the average amount of turns played in a 60 minute game and set that as the round limit, games would still end at about the same time as 60 minutes...

The thing about averages is that they don't tell you anything about the edges of the distribution. Your point ignores the fact that while most matches would end on time, some matches would last much longer--and then you have a completely screwed tournament.

I've had it happen where in the last few rounds my opponent struck up a conversation and slow played, and I got screwed out of another turn, seemingly as revenge for asking for an FAQ lookup. If I were to bring this up, I would be, "That guy".

The way to handle this is by a quiet word to the TO, who can keep an eye on that player for other signs of stalling or retaliatory poor sportsmanship.

2.) Of course no one is going to time when every list has 2 ships.

Every list has two ships?

3.) SInce I don't fly fat turrets or my hard counter ps 12 swarm tactics ion control Phantom player tear siphon list anymore, my strategy against super Phantoms is just to kill everything but the Phantom and hope I win on time (This is because the super Phantom is blatantly overpowered and strangles the meta).

I'm glad to see your opinions about game balance overall are as calm and rational as your opinions about tournament time management.

Have you ever played in a Premier level tournament? Regional/National/World level event? Something with more than 64 players? Even with extremely tight organization, you are looking at 14+ hours of X-Wing, without a break. There is no way you can give up on round time limits, and possibly have an outlier add to that time.

I'd just make so that if time's called the damage on ships is incorporated into MoV. Point Cost * Health/Total Health.

It's tough, but without time limits, I've had casual games take 2 hours, and the pts were close the entire time with no clear cut victor. I've also had games where a victory was squeezed out by 1hp.

However, I don't think I like turn limits since it discourages spending turns setting up and can force you to not waste turns by not shooting. At least in a timed tourney, those positioning rounds take much less time to complete, since no shooting.

I'd just make so that if time's called the damage on ships is incorporated into MoV.

There's something to said for that. I'm not completely sure it's necessary, because I can kinda see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand, it is frustrating to see 55+ points slip through your fingers over the sake of 1 missed <hit>. But OTOH it could have unintended consequences if you scored MoV based on such a thing.

I'd just make so that if time's called the damage on ships is incorporated into MoV.

There's something to said for that. I'm not completely sure it's necessary, because I can kinda see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand, it is frustrating to see 55+ points slip through your fingers over the sake of 1 missed <hit>. But OTOH it could have unintended consequences if you scored MoV based on such a thing.

What consequences are you thinking of?

What consequences are you thinking of?

Well for example, you take a few hits on your Falcon, and then run the rest of the game to avoid getting hit again. Since each damage done lowers your MoV score. It would further encourage forting up.

Also, does it make sense for the tie breaker to award points that don't actually count for a win?

There may be more I can't think of. I don't think that the Han/Dash & Corran or VT-49 & Whisper are there just because of MoV. I tried a Han & Corran list, and it's very deadly, if I were to run one, the effect it would have on my MoV wouldn't be a big factor.

I guess my thing is, just how much work should we really put into a tie breaker?

Nobody has yet raised a very important point. Even if going to turn limits made sense(I don't think it does) then how do you purpose to track these turns? Everyone has to buy a clicker now? Hah marks on a piece of paper? In the midst of a game, these will be overlooked and forgotten. Especially those times with limited shooting where the round become very rapid paced.