Dual wielding 2 auto fire weapons mechanically only makes scoring hits harder due to the additional Difficulty die added to the dice pool and doesn't increase hits in anyway. Dual wielding a pair of pistolized single shot rifles really isn't all that big a deal, a pair of tricked out H7s is probably better anyway.

I think I may have rambled there, but we don't disagree. What I meant to say that dual wielding two blaster carbines (damage 9) and getting at most two hits is mechanically less powerful than the heavy blaster rifle (damage 10) with full auto and the ability to generate more than two hits.

I agree that a pair of tricked out heavy blasters would make more sense (mechanically and sanity-check-wise).

One thing I thought of. The Player has a choice... Massive guns that can't be hidden. Or pistols he can hide. He can't have it both ways.

RAW, Blaster Carbines can be fired in one hand like heavy pistols, but only to short range adn there is no mention of dual wielding.

To expand upon this slightly, it is RAW for Edge of the Empire, but it is not RAW for Age of Rebellion. I'm not sure why the difference is there, but it is.

One thing I thought of. The Player has a choice... Massive guns that can't be hidden. Or pistols he can hide. He can't have it both ways.

The Dragoon pistol from Stay on Target says differently.

One thing I thought of. The Player has a choice... Massive guns that can't be hidden. Or pistols he can hide. He can't have it both ways.

The Dragoon pistol from Stay on Target says differently.

RAW, Blaster Carbines can be fired in one hand like heavy pistols, but only to short range adn there is no mention of dual wielding.

To expand upon this slightly, it is RAW for Edge of the Empire, but it is not RAW for Age of Rebellion. I'm not sure why the difference is there, but it is.

I only passed the rules lawyer bar exam in EotE, not AoR or FnD.

One thing I thought of. The Player has a choice... Massive guns that can't be hidden. Or pistols he can hide. He can't have it both ways.

The Dragoon pistol from Stay on Target says differently.

A dragoon pistol is a pistol you can add a stock to. Like the artillery lugers. It is not a light repeater. Which would be like a m249 saw. You can take the stock off a luger and it becomes concealable. Collapsing the stock on a paratrooper saw does not make it concealable.

The light repeater from Dangerous Covenants is sized similarly to a heavy blaster pistol, so it's actually more of a compact SMG.

RAW, Blaster Carbines can be fired in one hand like heavy pistols, but only to short range adn there is no mention of dual wielding.

To expand upon this slightly, it is RAW for Edge of the Empire, but it is not RAW for Age of Rebellion. I'm not sure why the difference is there, but it is.

I only passed the rules lawyer bar exam in EotE, not AoR or FnD.

Unless otherwise specified the ruling would be the same in all 3 sets. Compatibility being the key in that.

If you did not know the EotE Bar Exam is the Imperial MSSE "Multi Star System Exam".. So you qualify to be a rules lawyer in the other two.

One thing I thought of. The Player has a choice... Massive guns that can't be hidden. Or pistols he can hide. He can't have it both ways.

The Dragoon pistol from Stay on Target says differently.

A dragoon pistol is a pistol you can add a stock to. Like the artillery lugers. It is not a light repeater. Which would be like a m249 saw. You can take the stock off a luger and it becomes concealable. Collapsing the stock on a paratrooper saw does not make it concealable.

The light repeater from Dangerous Covenants is sized similarly to a heavy blaster pistol, so it's actually more of a compact SMG.

You also have to look at what type of concealment they are asking for. When speaking about weapons larger than a standard Blaster Pistol. One big factor is what does that particular type of "retractable" mean. Is it into the Forearm (Megamam Style), shoulder mounted weapon like the Predator, or Does it just pop up out of a concealed slot like the Machine Guns on the Batmobile (Batman, 1989). I am also under the opinion that making a weapon like this retractable changes key features and some questions arise like power supply. Of course they could be setup to use any stock weapon, but that would increase the size of the space needed to conceal it. I am not against having the options, but it should be considered a serious endeavor. Also depending on the modifications it will require a serious mechanics check to even attempt on each part.

Off the top of my head I do not remember the cost of the Dangerous Covenant Light repeater, but the Dragoon is not that cheap that you would just use it without having a good supply of credits.

The light repeater from Dangerous Covenants is sized similarly to a heavy blaster pistol, so it's actually more of a compact SMG.

There is a repeating blaster pistol, but it doesn’t do a lot of damage per shot.

The real winner from DC is the Sorosuub OK-98 carbine. With the model-specific modification, and a blaster actuation module, you can get +4 to the damage, with only a relatively minor risk of the thing blowing up on a Despair.

The light repeater from Dangerous Covenants is sized similarly to a heavy blaster pistol, so it's actually more of a compact SMG.

There is a repeating blaster pistol, but it doesn’t do a lot of damage per shot.

The real winner from DC is the Sorosuub OK-98 carbine. With the model-specific modification, and a blaster actuation module, you can get +4 to the damage, with only a relatively minor risk of the thing blowing up on a Despair.

But the BAM only works on "Ranged (Light) blaster pistols."

How about a different approach, use Narrative.

Describe him as having 4 arms, 2 of them are actually guns... big guns

Say that the other 2 are used to brace those 2 big guns when firing.

When he makes a check its just the same as if he is using 1 auto fire rifle, lets say its the Heavy Blaster Rifle.

Your describing him having large guns mounted to his chassis, every time he shoots a volley erupts from both of them bringing a hail of blaster fire. the mechanical effect is that he is uses a Heavy Blaster Rifle, on auto fire if he wants.

he has 2 free arms to do things with, but if he wants to shoot then he needs those arms to act as bracing for those MASIVE guns.

if he tries to fire without bracing then upgrade the check... Despair equals broken arm, can't aim or shoot with that gun until its fixed (Average Mechanics Check)

if he only wants to fire 1 gun then treat it as a not on auto fire, he can't activate that part of the weapon.

Another other idea would be to give him 4 arms again, but 2 of them are Heavy Blaster Pistols with the rules for dual wield, i just get the feeling he is looking for that rifle feel.

Lastly you could let him have 2 of the arms be Blaster Rifles, give them the Linked 1 quality, but increase the amount of advantage required to trigger, or upgrade the difficulty. i would also require more money to be given up for this mod, as well as 2 of his 6 Cybernetics points., perhaps the 4k suggested for the concealed weapon cybernetic is a good starting point for cost, (Or an over the top Obligation to start... i.e. the Illegal one suggested earlier)

Personally i like the narrative option i gave first, it is closest to RAW so less likely to be broken

But the BAM only works on "Ranged (Light) blaster pistols."

Which is exactly what the OK-98 is, once you collapse the stock — per the standard carbine rules.

But the BAM only works on "Ranged (Light) blaster pistols."

Which is exactly what the OK-98 is, once you collapse the stock — per the standard carbine rules.

I don't think the statement for the carbine "At short range, the rifle can be fired one-handed--just as if it were a heavy pistol" applies to the BAM since "this attachment is for use only on Ranged (Light) blaster pistols." Even though the carbine can be fired like a pistol under certain situations, I think it should still be considered a rifle for the purposes of determining valid attachments since the default skill is Ranged (Heavy).

I don't think the statement for the carbine "At short range, the rifle can be fired one-handed--just as if it were a heavy pistol" applies to the BAM since "this attachment is for use only on Ranged (Light) blaster pistols." Even though the carbine can be fired like a pistol under certain situations, I think it should still be considered a rifle for the purposes of determining valid attachments since the default skill is Ranged (Heavy).

If you look at the drawing, it’s quite clear that the OK-98 is a slightly re-done Skorpion Vz-61, which is a “machine pistol”. Using the pistol-based attachments is actually better from a game balance perspective, because they are more limited than the rifle-based attachments.

If I’m a munchkin, and you’re allowing me to go crazy on maxing out the OK-98, and you’re letting me add rifle-type attachments to it, then I would be even that much more chuffed. An OK-98 fired as a pistol (per the carbine rules), but with an Augmented Spin Barrel instead of a Blaster Actuation Module? Boo-yah!

OTOH, if you actually care about game balance, then you really do want to restrict carbine weapons to only using the pistol-type of attachments. This is just about the only thing they actually got right with the Dragoon — it’s considered a Ranged Light weapon, and the addition of the stock makes it Ranged Heavy.

How about a different approach, use Narrative.

And that's where we went.

The character has moved away from a dual weapon character. Yes it has 4 arms, but the arms have no effect other than being the harness and mounting to allow the Heavy Blaster Rifle to be used "single handed", all while allowing the other two arms to be used to grab the droid's charge and drag him to safety.

This is the character:

KYN-11T (Kyanite)

Sorry to those that were following the discussion...I meant to type Heavy Blaster Rifle...not Heavy Repeating Blaster...

The only problem I see with running it like that is that if you go to an area where fire power like that is illegal,enforced or restricted is that they now have two useless limbs, if they limbs are still useable then the character is still not getting what they want in that it's not a bad ass murder droid, I have player who basically is playing a HK assassin droid who understand these limitations and that there are places he is not able to go, but he listens to my reasons and works with me to ensure he gets what he wants but doesn't throw things out of wack (hasn't stoped him shadowing his alternat character which is a diplomat from afar or with stealth) so I think the idea is cool but don't let it upset the power scale of the game and try and let the character be more creative in work arounds rather than just melt everything that annoys them.

P.S I have most people at space ports with weapons scanners and checkpoints so just because stuff is retractable doesn't meant it's invisable hope that helps

...An OK-98 fired as a pistol (per the carbine rules), but with an Augmented Spin Barrel instead of a Blaster Actuation Module? Boo-yah!...

But the Augmented Spin Barrel can only be used with "blaster rifles and heavy blaster rifles" but no mention of carbines. The attachments make distinctions between carbines, blaster rifles, and heavy blaster rifles throughout the descriptions.

The arms aren't useless, just they are now there to be used in the narrative. Getting sucked out an airlock, roll acrobatics. Rolled a couple of advantage - well, you hold on with your 4 arms and gain a better grip for the next round (+1 Boost Dice). Or even when the player says, "As I climb up the side of the cliff, can I get a boost dice for using both sets of my arms?" I'd say sure - get +1 boost dice. Why? Because its encouraging good role playing and narrative story telling.

So in other words - Not useless, just no codified mechanical benefit.

The arms aren't useless, just they are now there to be used in the narrative. Getting sucked out an airlock, roll acrobatics. Rolled a couple of advantage - well, you hold on with your 4 arms and gain a better grip for the next round (+1 Boost Dice). Or even when the player says, "As I climb up the side of the cliff, can I get a boost dice for using both sets of my arms?" I'd say sure - get +1 boost dice. Why? Because its encouraging good role playing and narrative story telling.

So in other words - Not useless, just no codified mechanical benefit.

I just want to ask, but are they like Grievous' four arms? Normally can be locked in as two but then when needed unlocked to have 4 for the purposes of using the weapons?

That's kind of where we went yes. Later on, he can pay to have them "upgraded" to do other things.