It would appear we have a mind reader to so clearly understand his opponent's mental state.

But do go on how you were a bad to to allow such blantent cheating then.

I'm liking all this hyperbole about slow play. Abloo bloo bloo he took a while to think of a move during a critical phase of the game where it would make or break him.

You're all slow players to me. I don't even wait for movement to end before I start setting the next turn's movement.

This guy was slow playing every turn. Even the first, where it's almost physically impossible to do the wrong thing.

I see you have responded to a post condemning hyperbole by being hyperbolic.

I'm liking all this hyperbole about slow play. Abloo bloo bloo he took a while to think of a move during a critical phase of the game where it would make or break him.

You're all slow players to me. I don't even wait for movement to end before I start setting the next turn's movement.

This guy was slow playing every turn. Even the first, where it's almost physically impossible to do the wrong thing.

Remember #2. It sounds like they may just be slow, in which case unnecessarily rushing them would be cheating. How do you know? What steps did you take to address your prejudice before making a decision?

I wasn't there so it may be you had a cheater, I'm curious what process you have for determining cheating versus differing play speed ability.

Is it pre-game jitters that has everybody in this topic on edge?

That is today isn't it?

i think we can step back and address some things. First, cheating is a strong word for what this guy was doing. At worst, he was abusing the good nature of his opponents, a of whom reached the same "slow play" conclusion after their games individually, having not discussed it openly.

Personally, I'm with the OP. If you're slow tell someone! For crying out loud, if you have a physical problem, tell someone so that you don't get accused of cheating! It's only intelligent, and it will save you from being called a cheater.

Stalling is a perfectly valid, if illegal, tactic that will help to secure victory in small 2- or 3-ship elements, where losing one ship means you lose half or a third of your force. And if you're one of those slow thinkers, whether that means you have a physical disability or you're an older person who isn't as sharp as he used to be, please tell your opponent that this is the case. I promise, if you do that for me, I'd be happy to wait on you while you make your decisions about placement. If you don't, then don't feel bad and don't be surprised when I call you a cheater for stalling.

i think we can step back and address some things. First, cheating is a strong word for what this guy was doing. At worst, he was abusing the good nature of his opponents, a of whom reached the same "slow play" conclusion after their games individually, having not discussed it openly.

Cheating would be apt as it seems to be that TOS contention that the player was purposefully making an overt effort to slow down game play, which is against the rules, to benefit his particular build. Breaking event rules to purposefully benefit yourself is the text book defenition of cheating. Now that is not to say all instances of slow play are cheating, however a systematic effort towards it is likely going to fall on that end.

Due to the recent run ins with slow players, consider this your warning. I will be polite and say move it along once or twice, but after that I will call someone over.

Rant foils engaged-

Granted I did win both slow pokes today, in a tounry, is not the place to be slow. When a swarm player is getting his 6 dials down before your 2, that's not right. I know at times it's an important move or set up, but I timed one dude today, and he wasted at least 5 mins probably closer to 10 total in stall tactics. I was happy as all heck to drop his ship last shot, but come on man. It's better for you to get more rounds in to drop me faster.

I got the wins, you guys both lost. So I will take it, but due to you guys today, I will not take slow play lightly any tourny play that I paid to play in. Slow play to learn is totally fine in practice and is fine, but show good sportsmanship and rule number one of life, Don't be a Richard.

The neckbeard is STROOOOONG with this one

Seeing as I had first-hand experience with the situation in question, I'll default to my own judgment on what was happening in this one particular situation, especially since I wasn't the only one in attendance who witnessed it.

But by all means, find something to crusade against. I'll be unsubscribing from the thread and not opening it again. Making excuses for clear cheaters is almost as bad as cheating.

Moreover, though, it seems as if rather than calling one person out in the middle of the tourney--which could come across as bullying or even just unequal treatment, even if it were well-intentioned--you're going to address it with the whole community in a way that gives everyone plenty of warning that enforcement is going to be stepped up. That's really great, actually.

I just had a thought and would like to hear feedback from the community. Let us suppose the TO for a tournament has purchased hourglass timers for each match area. The TO advertised before the day of the event that each planning phase will last no longer than the timer indicates. 1 violation gets a warning, 2 a match loss at full MOV (like a concession) and the third a full DQ from the event. What is a fair length of time for the planning timers? ( allowing sufficient time for an 8 TIE swarm player to plan each dial w/o feeling rushed but will minimal excess to attempt to stall )

I'm liking all this hyperbole about slow play. Abloo bloo bloo he took a while to think of a move during a critical phase of the game where it would make or break him.

You're all slow players to me. I don't even wait for movement to end before I start setting the next turn's movement.

This guy was slow playing every turn. Even the first, where it's almost physically impossible to do the wrong thing.

Nothing to do with slow play but proof that you can quite easily do the wrong thing. Even before turn 1...

I just had a thought and would like to hear feedback from the community. Let us suppose the TO for a tournament has purchased hourglass timers for each match area. The TO advertised before the day of the event that each planning phase will last no longer than the timer indicates. 1 violation gets a warning, 2 a match loss at full MOV (like a concession) and the third a full DQ from the event. What is a fair length of time for the planning timers? ( allowing sufficient time for an 8 TIE swarm player to plan each dial w/o feeling rushed but will minimal excess to attempt to stall )

I'd sooner suggest the use of chess clocks. That should make it very obvious which player is slow in planning and the why can be taken up with him between games if it becomes problematic.

you still cannot slow play. that is literally against the rules and agianst the spirit of the game.

Esepcially in the scenario he described going up against a 2 ship build to his swarm. the 2 ship build has two ships that are hard to kill and thus the MoV is in his favor to slow play. Also, he has a point 6 dials vs 2?

Do you have any tolerance at all for someone who is new to tournaments, perhaps a bit apprehensive, doesn't know how things go, etc.?

Do you have any tolerance at all for someone who is new to the game, and has as much right to come to the tournament scene and give it a go?

You are a perfect example of why it can be difficult to expand the universe of potential players, as new people want a pleasant, enjoyable, reasonably stress free environment to have fun.

I hope you and I don't meet in a tournament. If we do, you can be sure that I will call the TO over and suggest that perhaps people such as yourself are a detriment to the game, all the while maximizing the amount of time it takes me to place my dials, move my ships, make decisions about my actions, etc.

/RANT on obnoxious, arrogant players

Dear Xwing Player,

I am (was) very tolerant of new players. I understand that they need some time to learn the game, and actually am very inviting to them and will allow them a couple missteps or help them remember to take a focus or action even if it is the end of oneof my ships. Actually I played a new player at his first tourney yesterday and did help he through. He was very nice and he did take some time at times, but was NOT slow playing. The people I played the I had the issue have played at other matches and I have seen them other times and are not "rookies".

As for the meeting at a tourney, I would love to have a chance to play you, and as long as you don;t waste a ton of time, I am sure I would not have to call the TO over.

Yesterday I did not call any over, as I was trying to be the nice guy, even though it almost cost me 2 games a chance at making the cut. I am fine if you beat me in a clean game and no stalling on purpose. I do understand the game and understand the possibility of a huge move at an important time, I am fine with taking your time at that moment.

I have only called TOs for moves that are hard for space or shots that are just to close to call. BUT I will call them now if I have to say more then a couple times to keep it moving.

May your evade dice come up white, and your attacks be Crits

LukesFather.

Stay at home, play at home... no need to deal with this sort of thing, like not ever.

I just had a thought and would like to hear feedback from the community. Let us suppose the TO for a tournament has purchased hourglass timers for each match area. The TO advertised before the day of the event that each planning phase will last no longer than the timer indicates. 1 violation gets a warning, 2 a match loss at full MOV (like a concession) and the third a full DQ from the event. What is a fair length of time for the planning timers? ( allowing sufficient time for an 8 TIE swarm player to plan each dial w/o feeling rushed but will minimal excess to attempt to stall )

I'd sooner suggest the use of chess clocks. That should make it very obvious which player is slow in planning and the why can be taken up with him between games if it becomes problematic.

When a swarm player is getting his 6 dials down before your 2, that's not right.

Actually, it's been my experience that if you're flying in formation, swarms play almost as one ship and are thus easier to plan (provided you have at least a few games experience coordinating movements) than a 3 or 4 ship build where you're flying out of formation and set yourself up for different attack angles.

at times, you are correct, but I tend to widen my approach, so I had options on targets. But I know that plotting takes time.

Edit... by the way, this isnt directed at the OP..

I love the nerd rage.. HE'S A CHEATER... how about ... its a game, chill out, haven't you ever needed a few moments to figure stuff out.. I'm glad the guys who come to the tourneys here arent jerks. If the player has a rep for this activity, then there is room for discussion. This was a subject dropped on us as a rant about slow players. Who made anyone in charge of how long it takes an individual to get their dials set. Any reasonable amount of time is acceptible, just because the player is slower than oneself doesn't mean their cheating.

Is there a reason to think they were.. it seems to be a fuzzy area.

As to the timer question... I might give it a go, but honestly... I know I've taken a longer time than typical on occasion.. but not due to cheating, just questioning myself is all..

call me a cheater and there will be a long discussion on the subject.... accusations like this end badly.. and obviously no one wants to be that guy.. so we post here instead of pointing a finger at the person in the middle of a game.. so when people take a side, or argue for or against.. someone gets offended.. 'you're defending a cheater'... well.. did he get removed for cheating... or did you all just grumble and fume... so dont blow steam at us for looking at both sides... there are always 2 ways of looking at a given situation..

But please.. nerd rage and do a mike drop and stage exit.. it makes you sound cool, doesn't it....

The ultimate problem is, there is not way to quantify it as a set time, as at times that "set time" would have to change due to other events in game. SO the only way to address it is with TOs, and that's unfortunate.

I just had a thought and would like to hear feedback from the community. Let us suppose the TO for a tournament has purchased hourglass timers for each match area. The TO advertised before the day of the event that each planning phase will last no longer than the timer indicates. 1 violation gets a warning, 2 a match loss at full MOV (like a concession) and the third a full DQ from the event. What is a fair length of time for the planning timers? ( allowing sufficient time for an 8 TIE swarm player to plan each dial w/o feeling rushed but will minimal excess to attempt to stall )

I'd sooner suggest the use of chess clocks. That should make it very obvious which player is slow in planning and the why can be taken up with him between games if it becomes problematic.

How do you enforce a chess clock when both players are doing a thing?

Dunno, but a chess clock seems to be a better tool than enforced timing and warnings.

I know slow play is discouraged in this game. It also makes it difficult to use that as a strategy... up against a speedy player, that always is done in less than a minute, then sits there tapping his fingers ... well.. I've found.. in other games.. when you take a little time, and get them riled up.. it throws their game off.. not everyone, but some people get frazzeled by tactics like that... if you get under their skin, you just might get them to make a mistake...

Look, I'm not tryinng to defend slow play or cheaters.. but everyone deserves the benefit of a doubt.. if it can be proven, then by all means DQ the offending player and move on.

Maybe I should have signed up here as DevilsAdvocate, instead of Oneway.. lol

Not only do you come off as a jerk, but you may be inaccurately accusing this person of cheating. If he was "slow playing" from the beginning, then it's not really deliberately slow play, which is usually indicated by a sudden change of pace.

This attitude of yours doesn't improve the community or welcome new players in any way. You might be best served not attending tournaments in the future.

Not only do you come off as a jerk, but you may be inaccurately accusing this person of cheating. If he was "slow playing" from the beginning, then it's not really deliberately slow play, which is usually indicated by a sudden change of pace.

This attitude of yours doesn't improve the community or welcome new players in any way. You might be best served not attending tournaments in the future.

Nah, I've played with Lukesfather many many times, and he's always been a very chill player. And he's VERY welcoming to newbies. I'm inclined to believe this was a case of extreme slowness, and that he'd be right to be bothered by it. Note that he DIDN'T call a TO about it, and he DIDN'T accuse the guy outright of slow play. He's just venting afterwards from a frustrating experience. Not sure how that makes him a jerk.