The Zahn book you're referring to is from the Heir To The Empire trilogy. In it, the Empire begins a new cloning regimen under Grand Admiral Thrawn. Something Thrawn considered, but did not implement, was cloning Force-users. There was also a mad clone of the Jedi Master C'baoth mixed in, but he was too unstable to clone. He did, however, clone Luke Skywalker from the hand lost at Bespin.

The Zahn book you're referring to is from the Heir To The Empire trilogy. In it, the Empire begins a new cloning regimen under Grand Admiral Thrawn. Something Thrawn considered, but did not implement, was cloning Force-users. There was also a mad clone of the Jedi Master C'baoth mixed in, but he was too unstable to clone. He did, however, clone Luke Skywalker from the hand lost at Bespin.

And in that trilogy it was explained that force growing someone was bad in terms of their interactions with the Force, hence why Joruus C'baoth (a second U in the first name is the clones name) and Luuke Skywalker went straight dark-side. Growing clones in the presence of the Ysalimiri, which cut off access to the force, led to stable clones, both physically and mentally when they were decanted. Granted this was before Lucas did the prequels and changed what the Clone Wars seemed to be about (clones vs the republic in Zahn's novels, Clones vs Droids in Lucas').

The Zahn book you're referring to is from the Heir To The Empire trilogy. In it, the Empire begins a new cloning regimen under Grand Admiral Thrawn. Something Thrawn considered, but did not implement, was cloning Force-users. There was also a mad clone of the Jedi Master C'baoth mixed in, but he was too unstable to clone. He did, however, clone Luke Skywalker from the hand lost at Bespin.

And in that trilogy it was explained that force growing someone was bad in terms of their interactions with the Force, hence why Joruus C'baoth (a second U in the first name is the clones name) and Luuke Skywalker went straight dark-side. Growing clones in the presence of the Ysalimiri, which cut off access to the force, led to stable clones, both physically and mentally when they were decanted. Granted this was before Lucas did the prequels and changed what the Clone Wars seemed to be about (clones vs the republic in Zahn's novels, Clones vs Droids in Lucas').

yeah...faceless clones made to be cannon fodder vs robots. so riveting, wasn't it.

The book Tarkin answers this officially. Even 10 years BBY most of them had died of old age.

Good to know they actually cleared this up. Do they state why the Empire doesn't just make more?

Kamino is destroyed during the ending days of the Clone Wars, so they don't have the ability. I suspect also it's against the Emperor's bending people to his will philosophy. Clones don't work for that.

The book Tarkin answers this officially. Even 10 years BBY most of them had died of old age. With a few exceptions all the Stormtroopers are regular human recruits. Vader's personal guard, the 501st, has a couple of clones, but they're specifically mentioned as being very unusual. So no more cloning, no more clones, likely all are completely gone by the Battle of Yavin.

Ok wait a minute. This seems like a pretty huge screw up. The original Clones (in canon) are supposed to age TWICE as fast. Only 2x. We had 20 year old appearing clones going off to war at the start of the Clone Wars (22 BBY) with a chronological age of 10 years. Even if these were the last of their kind, "10 years BBY" is 12 years later, or 24 more years of aging. They would be 44 years old physically.

So the Tarkin novel seriously claims most Clones died of old age by 44?

I'm not claiming there are original Clone Troopers serving the Empire. I don't believe so. They may have been retired, killed off, who knows what. But, they shouldn't have all died off from old age by 0 BBY let alone 10 BBY.

So the Tarkin novel seriously claims most Clones died of old age by 44?

IIRC, they aged more and more rapidly as they got older.

ISTR that they also had a built-in “early termination” period — not unlike the Replicants in Blade Runner.

IIRC, they aged more and more rapidly as they got older.

ISTR that they also had a built-in “early termination” period — not unlike the Replicants in Blade Runner.

Source? I was only ever aware of the 2x aging rate.

Source? I was only ever aware of the 2x aging rate.

Vague memory? Hence the “IIRC” and “ISTR” qualifications?

The "twice as fast" aging was what I remember reading somewhere. Perhaps it was in the wookieepedia, but perhaps somewhere else. I'm not sure. I have not read the Tarkin book. Exponentially accelerated aging makes a good argument that they're all dead of old age 20 years after the Wars.

But, for me, I like better the idea of the straight twice speed and have some of these codgers still around in their 60s-70s. Some might be celebrated war heroes and veterans wherever they're living, while others might be bitter old men. Some might be distraught with executing Order 66. Some might still be very active and running around as mercs or bounty hunters or pilots and such.

Saying they're still around (yet aging) gives me, the GM of my group, a lot more options than saying they're all dead.

Yes and no. Boba is unmodified clone but still a clone. Via the books he begins to show signs of cancerous cells and deterioration to his body due to being a clone. Now we can look at modified clones...would they see these signs sooner or maybe they were strengthened due to modifications?

IT IS your game. Hell-- they could all still be around or all be dead...your call. But most likely all but dead and gone. Replaced by other humans(empire being space nazis pretty much so they wouldn't rank and file aliens).

Personally-- I'd have a mix. Maybe some older clones in there and some other humans. We can all recall the storm trooper in a new hope that hits his head in the door? Was that a clone slowly losing motor functions? Or was that a newbie recruit? YOUR CALL! Lol!!

“No less important, our present army of clone troopers is aging at an accelerated rate, and will need to be supplemented, gradually replaced, by new batches of clones. I suspect that the Jedi had a hand in creating a short-lived army in full confidence that there would be no need for troopers once they had over-thrown the Republic and instituted their theocracy based on the Force.”

By James Luceno

On top of that, Boba wasn't an accelerated clone. He was a "normal" clone without the aging and some other enhancements.

To put it clearly ANH is 19 years after ROTS. So it is easy to conceive that any surviving clones are in their early 60's in accelerated aging. So it is possible for them to be around, but unlikely you will see many serving still in active combat roles. More than likely the last of them serving in the 501st are those that have aged well and/or those from the youngest batch. It is even conceivable that at least one final group of clones were being produced at the end of the war. So those would probably be in the 40-50's in accelerated age. Most of them probably holding positions of authority in the Rank Structure or even just as Instructors at the Imperial Training Facilities. As it would be faster to replenish the ranks with recruits trained by Clones than waiting a new and ready Generation every so many years.

To thin out the ranks even further it is logical that you had losses rooting out the small pockets of the Separatists left after the Official End to the Clone Wars. Any rebellious systems that needed subjugating after the New Order came to power. Some might have deserted at the end of the war, most likely ARC's and Commandos as they would find issue with the events that took place around Order 66. We can even attribute a number to PTSD from Order 66.

There are lots of ways to look at dwindling the numbers and even allow for PC's to interact with Clones. That would make them there to be utilized, but not so prevalent that you would need a direct explanation as to why don't they just have an Army of Clone Stromtroopers in ANH.

My guess is that the Emperor discarded them when they were no longer useful or when he wanted something different, like he does with everything else. He tossed aside his mentor and all of his apprentices, and even secretly instigated a devastating embargo on his home planet to further his goals. I can see him eagerly recruiting normal humans into his new stormtrooper corps after they have been trained by clones and then discharging and/or executing the remaining clones (Order 67 has a nice ironic ring to it).

On another note, I recently played in a EtoE campaign where the only medicine that stopped the two PC clones from aging at an acclerated rate was kept by a nefarious crimelord. This was their Obligation.

After all, Qui-Gon never said they were the source of the Force, simply a means by which a person can interact with the Force.

I always saw them as the effect, not the cause. Someone strong in the Force is going to have lots of midichlorians, not someone with lots of midis is going to also be strong with the Force.

Was it ever mentioned if the clones were sterile? I know Boba wasn't but what bout the others? Were they reproducing? I know there was a clone wars episode with a deserter who had started a family. But I don't really use that as canon personally ...

After all, Qui-Gon never said they were the source of the Force, simply a means by which a person can interact with the Force.

I always saw them as the effect, not the cause. Someone strong in the Force is going to have lots of midichlorians, not someone with lots of midis is going to also be strong with the Force.

EWWWWW someone mentioned the M word!!! Get a rope ...

At least some of them father children in the EU novels

Was it ever mentioned if the clones were sterile? I know Boba wasn't but what bout the others? Were they reproducing? I know there was a clone wars episode with a deserter who had started a family. But I don't really use that as canon personally ...

You can keep it as a canon if you want (because technically it is). Cut wasn't their biological father. Cut didn't desert the GAR until just after the first battle of Geonosis. Those kids were born before the war. He's only their stepfather.

Was it ever mentioned if the clones were sterile? I know Boba wasn't but what bout the others? Were they reproducing? I know there was a clone wars episode with a deserter who had started a family. But I don't really use that as canon personally ...

You can keep it as a canon if you want (because technically it is). Cut wasn't their biological father. Cut didn't desert the GAR until just after the first battle of Geonosis. Those kids were born before the war. He's only their stepfather.

Ah ok

Was it ever mentioned if the clones were sterile? I know Boba wasn't but what bout the others? Were they reproducing? I know there was a clone wars episode with a deserter who had started a family. But I don't really use that as canon personally ...

At the point you start segregating canon into different kinds you get the mess that became the EU.

There was even an article about the 5 "kinds" of Star Wars canon on io9 yesterday.

http://io9.com/a-brief-history-of-star-wars-canon-old-and-new-1683320381/+AnnaleeNewitz

Seeing as Disney has selected the 6 movies (yes even midichlorians are canon), the Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon, the Star Wars: Rebels cartoon, Future Episodes (aka The Force Awakens), Future spinoff movies produced by Disney, and the book(s) A New Dawn (precurser to Star Wars:Rebels) and Tarkin.

That is 100% the official canon.

Pretty sure that someone mentioned Tarkin dealt with the Clone issue. As to speculation about how to add them... well some Jedi escaped Order 66 maybe some clones managed to handle the clone purge as well.

After all, Qui-Gon never said they were the source of the Force, simply a means by which a person can interact with the Force.

I always saw them as the effect, not the cause. Someone strong in the Force is going to have lots of midichlorians, not someone with lots of midis is going to also be strong with the Force.

Likewise.

That or midichlorians were simply the Star Wars term for mitochondria, with the mitochondria of Force users simply being more active and thus an indication of higher ability/affinity with the Force.

Was it ever mentioned if the clones were sterile? I know Boba wasn't but what bout the others? Were they reproducing? I know there was a clone wars episode with a deserter who had started a family. But I don't really use that as canon personally ...

Yes, there was a clone commando in the Old Canon named Darman who fathered a child with his Jedi handler, Etain. This is the only example I can think of offhand, but it would imply that (at least, prior to the Canon Purge) clones were not sterile and could sire children.

Of course, that same book series made a point of stating that humans and Twi'leks couldn't interbreed, and The Clone Wars retconned that. Basically, if you don't use The Clone Wars as canon for your games (I don't either) then there's precedent for clones being able to have kids.

The Series is the Republic Commando by Karen Travis. She did have a few of the Clones get married to humans so and implied that they could. In that series there was the implication that Jango actually achieved a significant goal when it came to the Clone Army. A resurgence of Mandalorians, but the clone wars really mucked it up.

Actually I believe that the idea that Humans could not have children with Twi'leks was originally from the X-Wing novels and Traviss just used it. Frankly I think the EU saying the two species couldn't have kids was a bad idea no matter who came up with it though.

Yeah, who needs genetics and specialization! Screw incompatible organ layouts! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to cross my cat with my parakeet to make flying cats.