In my league night last week I was up against a guy I have played a few times before. He has beaten me a few times so I went into the match feeling particularly focused. He came at me with a what I thought of a pretty novel list:

Wild Space Fringer:

HLC

Gunner

Cluster Missiles

Roark:

Recon Specialist

Moldy Crow

Blaster Turret

Green Squadron Pilot:

Title

Predator

Proton Rockets

This seemed like it could be a one sided match up against my flying circus of Fel and friends. Here is where the story starts, through the course of the game he kept trying to do things with his ships that he couldn't or completely forgetting to use his card abilities. To give you an example, on the second turn I had my ships lined up to go at the TY-2400. Before I could fire, he uses Roark's ability to give the Fringer PS12 and then tries to fire the HLC out of his main arc. I had to explain to him that couldn't do that as he hadn't taken the Outrider title. He got a little irate and said that all of the YT-2400s have that ability and that pretty much set the tone for the match. Also, he only used his Gunner twice, once when he didn't roll any hits at all and another time when he tried to re-roll an HLC attack. At that point it hits me like a ton of bricks that he has no idea what gunner actually does.

Then there was Predator on the A-wing. The A-wing didn't really do much all game he finally got it around to attack my ships. I could see that he wasn't having a good time, he wasn't rolling so hot on attack (he was rolling evades like a boss though) and he had lost his big ship. He rolled his attack with the A-Wing and only got one hit, you could see the frustration in his face and then I mentioned that he has Predator on that ship, he could re-roll the missed attack die. He looked at me calmly and said "I took predator on my A-Wing?"

These were are a few examples from an entire game of awkward moments. I end up tabeling the dude and now I feel terrible, he clearly had no idea what was in his list. I briefly mention to the fellow about to play my vanquished foe that this guy is forgetting to his card abilities. So, we have a rule at our league night that you can only play with one squad list a night. This is mainly to save time setting up but also to stop people from tailoring list to have a better chance on the fly. Knowing that we can't let him fix his list the question became do we hold his hand through the next game and remind him of his car abilities, or do we leave him to fend for himself and maybe have what was starting to feel like an unfair advantage.

What is the right thing to do in this situation? Had I really thought about it during the match I can't honestly say I would have helped him more. I really wanted the win to up my standings, but after I realized what was going on the match was all but decided.

It's called read the rule book, understand how upgrade cards work, lather, rinse, repeat. You can't fault yourself for your opponents mistakes. If people keep pointing things out for him, he'll never learn.

It's the nice thing to do. But if he wants to get irate and be a butthole I see no reason to help him...I tend to start with the nicer position and let my opponent work their way down from there...

As far as everyone handholding...that's up to each individual player and I think would depend on his reputation with the group...I would probably help him, unless he did something to piss me off...

It's called read the rule book, understand how upgrade cards work, lather, rinse, repeat. You can't fault yourself for your opponents mistakes. If people keep pointing things out for him, he'll never learn.

But if he keeps trying to use abilities he doesn't actually have, you have to remind him of that.

It's not really your job to tell him how the cards he chose work given that he's not a new player.

If I forget an ability or upgrade and only realise after I shrug and try to remember next time, I will actively remind people if I notice there's something they've forgot but I don't run through a check list in my mind as I'm more focused on my side of things.

Was he just having an off day or have previous games been like this?

If it's a friendly game Imo I have no problem reminding someone of their abilities if I happen to notice it.

Speaking from experience with myself, I know when I use something new i always forget something.

For example I used duel aggressor last night and totally forgot about the gunner ability the one time I was able to use in. And my opponent was kind enough to remind me of my free evade when I boosted

So again speaking from experience maybe this was the case for this guy new list and simply forgot.

I say for a game or two I'd remind him, but truthfully I have a hard enough time at times remembering my things let alone someone elseS

Now if it was a tournament and it was a "you may" ability I may not say something because for all I know he or she may opted not to use that ability for whatever reasons.

I also practice a lot with what I'm likely to fly in a tournament so I'm pretty familiar with my list so don't forget things so much in competitive play.

I kind of expect the same from my opponents.

Though there are times I may take pity. Especially against newer players

But if it's rebel captive, or stealth device, and you notice and your opponent forgot I believe it is cheating as these are mandatory effects.

I kmow I've used rebel captive a few times and forgot to tell my opponent at the time, and during the planning phase they seemed annoyed when I remind them about my rebel captive.

If I see my opponent rolling very poorly it makes me feel bad.

Last tournament I apologize for winning in the last game as he had terrible dice.

I was one shooting ties from round one.

He was getting frustrated and I know the feeling.

I usually try to help my opponent out a little more in this case. Never fun when dice become totally one sided.

I know we've all been there

However if the guy becomes a jerk if I tried to explain the correct way to use something, I probably wouldn't feel very inclined to help him

I'd probably avoid him if he was a big jerk

In competitive, I usually let them make the mistake as, let's be real, in a game this balanced I need you to make a mistake for me to win somewhere. But after games I always try to provide some constructive criticism (or indeed, ask for some as the loser) and point out at least one play where things could of gone different had they realized some important detail. That didn't stop me at nationals last year from pointing out a few things anyway because it's now a habit from casual play. Don't remind me of the play I looked at my opponent and said "...Well?...You have Gunner, right?..... Weeeere you going to activate him?". Yeah that ended in a about as good a state as you could imagine.

He was probably frustated with himself for forgetting stuff, along with bad dice luck making him feel kind of put-upon. I imagine he was more grouchy with himself than you, but I know when I feel that way it's sometimes undistinguishable from me being a butthead to others (when it's really myself I'm mad at). So, FWIW, maybe he didn't mean to be a jerk about it.

I wouldn't worry about it. You tried to keep an eye on him and keep the game going by the rules during your match. That's all folks can really expect an opponent in a competitive game to do.

If people keep pointing things out for him, he'll never learn.

People keep bringing up this concept in regards to wargames, and I don't buy it. I know from personal experience that if I screw up, no matter in games, job, life, whatever and no matter how big or damaging the screw up is, if I just say "****, I'll have to make sure I remember not to do that next time" then all that does is reinforce the habit of doing it wrong. IME, the best way to actually fix the problem is to have the problem identified as soon as possible, stop for a moment, and go back and very carefully and very deliberately do it the correct way. THAT creates the habit of doing it right. Now, obviously, you can't always actually do that while playing a game, but pausing and working through all the steps right then and there is a much better teacher than "well, better remember to do it right next time".

Of course, that is for teaching myself not to make mistakes. If it's the other guy, then it really depends on his attitude, what kinds of mistakes he is making, and how much I am winning by. Last night I played a guy and used a decimator / phantom 2-ship list. During that game his 5 ship list landed 3 damage on the phantom because I rolled 12 defense dice and only got 1 evade, and put 2 damage cards on the decimator. For him I was not only correcting his knowledge of the cards, but giving him tactical advice as well (he always wants to shoot cluster missiles at phantoms and interceptors instead of big ships). Another guy I know gets offended if he thinks you know more than him, so against him I just keep quiet.

That didn't stop me at nationals last year from pointing out a few things anyway because it's now a habit from casual play. Don't remind me of the play I looked at my opponent and said "...Well?...You have Gunner, right?..... Weeeere you going to activate him?". Yeah that ended in a about as good a state as you could imagine.

I do try to help my opponent along - I know how hectic things can be, and missing something obvious just creates acrimony to take advantage of later (IE., 'you rushed me, I was going to do xyz' or whatever). No reason to risk that, it's just a game and we're there to have fun.

That said - in a case like that where it might make a BIG difference, I don't exactly spell it out.

Like, I'll double-check it's okay to move on. "So, you are really finished, then, and I can move on? <Wait a moment for them to think and confirm we are ready to move on> ARE YOU SURE? <Wait another moment until they confirm again> Okay, then, I'm taking my turn now."

Eh, maybe he was just high.

I was playing against my friend that I play most often against, and we were both having an off-night; forgetting rerolls, forgetting his Rebel Prisoner, flying at asteroids as though they were the glorious light at the end of the tunnel. We're not tourney-level players, pretty new, but have a grip on the game at least. I guess we were both just having an off-night, and we did our best to remind each other of details, even ret-conning if the play wasn't too far back.

On the plus side, I've taken to carrying a WotC SW figure to use as a Rebel Prisoner; I painted the base red and he fits nicely onto large ship bases... it has worked well to remind us about the sometimes-forgettable RP.

(This is the Peace Brigade Thug figure from WotC's Star Wars miniatures line.)

In casual play I'll remind you if you aren't a jerk. In a tourney setting though, you are on your own.

I have never intentionally chosen not to remind an opponent of their cards. What is the point of playing X-Wing if you are winning because your opponent is forgetful? This is meant to be a game of strategy and tactics. Winning because someone is forgetful is no different than winning because they are an idiot, which is a terribly hallow achievement.

How poorly behaved my opponent is might make me not want talk to them after the game, but it doesn't change the way that I play.

I've never played in a tournament, but in gaming in general I always point out obvious mistakes that my opponent makes if/when I catch them and allow them to back up and redo something if it doesn't affect anything else. There's not much joy in winning if my opponent isn't playing at his best. You're welcome to do what you like, of course, and in a tournament setting I don't think anyone could blame you; but personally I wouldn't feel right if I didn't point out things like that during the game. That said, it's one thing if someone forgets to use an ability, but it's quite another if they don't even know what cards they brought to the game.

Well your right it is a strategy game

Strategy games are games that require a lot of thought.

If you are reminding a player of his actions and abilities then are you not in a way playing the game for them?

I kind of view it like chess.

I never win at chess, and I always miss easy moves.

If my opponent was to point out a easy move for me, then why am I playing? He may as well play against himself

Probably do better than I would anyway

Maybe a poor analogy but it's what I just thought Of.

Like I said, I have no problem during a friendly game, but in a competitive tournament, if you don't appear as a new player, and seem to have a good grasp at the game, then it's not anyone's responsibility to hold the others hand.

Like I said above.

When I go to a competitive event, I play something I'm good at and very familiar with.

I know my squad inside and out. I expect most to do the same if they are competing in a competitive event.

I learned my list enough not to make silly mistakes, or at least I hope so.

If I miss a opportunity that is my mistake, and I don't expect someone to let me go backsies.

If I lose because of that then imo that is fair play. I should have paid closer attention, and it is things like that that makes or breaks some games.

As the saying goes " may the best man win" which in that case the best man is also the one less likely to miss out on opportunities, but capitalise on his opponents mistakes

However again, if I feel my opponent is half new, or the dice are just being terribly one sided, I will help him out a little More. One thing I hate is winning when the dice are completely one sided.

Every time he rolls gets blanks and I can't miss. Doesn't make me feel good when I win

But in all honesty I am busy trying to think a few turns ahead and making sure I don't make any mistakes, so it's pretty likely I'm not going to remember for my opponent. Not that I'm not trying, but I'm preoccupied in my own moves and abilities

Especially since I'm bad for forgetting things when I fly a new build.

Which again is why i fly my tournament builds before I play in a tournament

Ps

I saw someone say thus once and I totally agree.

The whole "I don't want to beat someone who is not at their best"

If they are forgetting abilities and you are helping them, then that is them playing at their best along with your help.

Edit

Mandatory effects are a different story

Stealth device, or rebel captive.

I always call out the amount of dice when attacking, and remind of rebel captive and other mandatory effects.

If you notice that and don't say anything, that is cheating and that I do not approve of.

Sadly though there isn't any way to know if unless the player admits to it.

If you are reminding a player of his actions and abilities then are you not in a way playing the game for them?

I kind of view it like chess.

I never win at chess, and I always miss easy moves.

If my opponent was to point out a easy move for me, then why am I playing?

Because that is how you learn. You find out what a superior player would do in your place and, most importantly, WHY they would do that, then you get better. If you keep firing cluster missiles at obstructed, cloaked phantoms and nobody stops you and explains why you should target the decimator instead then you may never learn that. And lessons like that are learned and absorbed much better when a real life example is pointed out and explained on the spot.

If you are reminding a player of his actions and abilities then are you not in a way playing the game for them?

I kind of view it like chess.

I never win at chess, and I always miss easy moves.

If my opponent was to point out a easy move for me, then why am I playing?

Because that is how you learn. You find out what a superior player would do in your place and, most importantly, WHY they would do that, then you get better. If you keep firing cluster missiles at range 3 cloaked phantoms and nobody stops you and explains why you should target the decimator instead then you may never learn that. And lessons like that are learned and absorbed much better when a real life example is pointed out and explained on the spot.

I'm pretty bad for forgetting and making mistakes when I fly something new

But after a few games I learn from my previous ones and do well with them

I would think in a competitive environment people don't show up with something they never used before, but rather with what they are best at.

In a friendly game I'm all for helping out

Even in tournaments against new players I've reminded them. I've even taught them in a tournament as it was one players first time playing.

But if your experience and know what your doing, then I can understand if someone doesn't want to remind that player.

It happens when people get tired in long games and that weeds out the better players as well imo

I have never intentionally chosen not to remind an opponent of their cards. What is the point of playing X-Wing if you are winning because your opponent is forgetful? This is meant to be a game of strategy and tactics. Winning because someone is forgetful is no different than winning because they are an idiot, which is a terribly hallow achievement.

How poorly behaved my opponent is might make me not want talk to them after the game, but it doesn't change the way that I play.

I'm curious if this transfers to all other forms of competition. If you were playing a videogame online against someone and they had not taken advantage of something they had clearly known about earlier, would you remind them about it Or would you take advantage of their mistake and win?

Typically I remind everyone about their stuff with X-Wing because the people that play it with me are newer to the game. I especially help them remember if I helped them build their squad. Those that have more experience with the game I do not remind. They typically have built their own squad just before the game and I'm focusing more on what I should be doing than teaching them or whether they are forgetting anything.

If you are reminding a player of his actions and abilities then are you not in a way playing the game for them?

I kind of view it like chess.

I never win at chess, and I always miss easy moves.

If my opponent was to point out a easy move for me, then why am I playing?

Because that is how you learn. You find out what a superior player would do in your place and, most importantly, WHY they would do that, then you get better. If you keep firing cluster missiles at range 3 cloaked phantoms and nobody stops you and explains why you should target the decimator instead then you may never learn that. And lessons like that are learned and absorbed much better when a real life example is pointed out and explained on the spot.

If you keep firing cluster missiles at range 3 cloaked phantoms .

Just want to point out that cluster missiles is range 1 only.

Editing to fix the original post

If you keep firing cluster missiles at range 3 cloaked phantoms .

Just want to point out that cluster missiles is range 1 only.

Just want to point out that cluster missiles are range 1-2.

Editing to fix the original post

Already fixed it before your reply

What is the right thing to do in this situation? Had I really thought about it during the match I can't honestly say I would have helped him more. I really wanted the win to up my standings, but after I realized what was going on the match was all but decided.

Without having been there, your story gives me the impression that this person was distracted by something that had nothing to do with the game. So I don't think his forgetfulness was really something you had any control over - and you probably should not feel bad about it.

Otherwise, it's good sportsmanship to point out that someone forgets something like predator, or a focus action, or gunner. But I would not do this repeatedly, especially not if, like in your case, there is something at stake (your league rating or something like that).

If you are reminding a player of his actions and abilities then are you not in a way playing the game for them?

I kind of view it like chess.

I never win at chess, and I always miss easy moves.

If my opponent was to point out a easy move for me, then why am I playing?

Because that is how you learn. You find out what a superior player would do in your place and, most importantly, WHY they would do that, then you get better. If you keep firing cluster missiles at obstructed, cloaked phantoms and nobody stops you and explains why you should target the decimator instead then you may never learn that. And lessons like that are learned and absorbed much better when a real life example is pointed out and explained on the spot.

Though if I'm playing against someone and they did do that why question their tactics?

Maybe they had a reason behind it. Part if their strategy.

A tournament game is about seeing who is the best. Like any tournament.

Which player or team has the best skill.

Part of that skill is remembering your abilities and actions.

I don't think I'd enjoy winning an event if every game I forgot to use gunner and someone reminded me, only to then one shot fel or something.

I'd actually feel totally wrong. Almost embarrassed really.

Seeing as I wouldn't be sitting in the top spot if I wasn't reminded in that case.

There are lots of different scenerio and situations where things can change in an event, so really it's all situational.

If you attack with whisper. And say your going to cloak, but forgot to put out the token. I'd be totally fine with that so long as I heard you declared it.

Or if you attack and had fire control, and realized in the planning phase, to me, that's fine as well

But if you attack with ship a and forget to use gunner and attack with ship B and then realized you forgot about gunner, we are passed that point.

If you attack with howlrunner but forgot to give an academy swarm tactics, I'd be ok with that as well.

I'm not that strict, but i still stand by with what I say.

If you forget something in a competitive event, I see it as part of the skill of the game

I have never intentionally chosen not to remind an opponent of their cards. What is the point of playing X-Wing if you are winning because your opponent is forgetful? This is meant to be a game of strategy and tactics. Winning because someone is forgetful is no different than winning because they are an idiot, which is a terribly hallow achievement.

How poorly behaved my opponent is might make me not want talk to them after the game, but it doesn't change the way that I play.

I'm curious if this transfers to all other forms of competition. If you were playing a videogame online against someone and they had not taken advantage of something they had clearly known about earlier, would you remind them about it Or would you take advantage of their mistake and win?

Typically I remind everyone about their stuff with X-Wing because the people that play it with me are newer to the game. I especially help them remember if I helped them build their squad. Those that have more experience with the game I do not remind. They typically have built their own squad just before the game and I'm focusing more on what I should be doing than teaching them or whether they are forgetting anything.

It can't really be applied to all forms of competition. For example, I we are playing a FPS against each other, I am not in a position to monitor your activity and making determinations as to whether or not you neglected an obvious choice is very difficult. I can't ask, "Why didn't you throw a grenade there?" because there are too many options for me to make an assumption as to why you did what you did. A very different situation occurs when, if we are playing X-Wing, you shoot at Fel with Han and, rolling all blanks, you pick up your dial to begin the next turn. There is no conceivable reason why you would not use Han's re-roll ability, so I would suggest it to you.

Also pc games mandatory mechanics and tabletop mandatory mechanics are different. In a pc game mandatory effects simply take their place but in x-wing one person might forget his upgrade cards like r2 astromech or rebel captive which might elude the other player as well.

Then there are also optional stuff like whisper's and fel's focus tokens which are not mandatory, the opponent should not remind people those stuff in tournaments, since a tournament is a comparison of many things, fatigue and knowledge of your own list being two of them.