Hi all,

I have been flying this version of Vader:

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

He is a beast on offense. My problem is that the enemy focuses on him to the exclusion of just about anything else that I field. Vader is usually dead after the 2nd round of shooting.

How can I do a better job of keeping Vader alive?

Sometimes, Vader gets blocked, which is a very bad thing since he loses both actions. Any tips for avoiding blockers?

Thanks.

don't get blocked (keeping at range tends to help)

block the blockers with your own blockers

honestly, no way to give specifics without knowing the specifics (the two lists, for starters)

the rest is just about pouring his two actions into focus/evade or boost/roll or any combination thereof

I was flying:

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

The other guy was flying:

Dash Rendar (36)
Push the Limit (3)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Mercenary Copilot (2)
Outrider (5)

Jake Farrell (24)
Outmaneuver (3)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Push the Limit (3)
Chardaan Refit (-2)

Total: 100

Ended up winning because...Echo... but the Interceptor was 1-shotted (unlucky 4-eyeball green dice roll at R3 which negated Autothrusters). Jake and Dash blew up Vader on turn 2. Admittedly, Dash had some good rolls... but, still, I generally seem to have the problem of people targeting Vader since he seems to be the biggest threat that is the easiest to hit.

Thanks again for any advice.

Yeah, Vader should be moving pretty late in the turn order, so you should have a pretty good sense of where NEARLY everyone is in relation to him.

First priority is arc dodging (boost then barrel roll) - if no enemy has a shot on you because you aren't in arc of them, Vader won't be going down anytime soon.

If you ARE in enemy fire arcs, then turtle up (focus + evade), and remember to SAVE your focus token for defense, no matter HOW badly you want to spend it in an attack. (I mean, unless that token would turn your attack roll into a kill shot the enemy cannot stop, on a fighter that would otherwise be shortly firing at you...then it's probably worth using it to remove them from the board, otherwise KEEP IT FOR DEFENSE)

You could try swapping the Advance Targeting Computer for Sensor Jammer, and then maybe swap Predator for Outmaneuver.

You lose a little in the offense department, but Sensor Jammer is a tragically under appreciated upgrade.

You do not want to swap out ATC for anything that isn't AC (if even)

Sure, Vader's almost invincible with jammer, but now he's hitting like a Tie Fighter for over 3 times the price. I suppose that would add to his invincibility, though, since no one would bother shooting at him until the other two far more offensively potent and easier to kill ships are dead.

Arc dodging is better than rolling dice any day, all day. I run the Vader you describe and he is almost always my closer (unless folks prioritize him over Fel), so I would say get him out of arc and he survives pretty well. Maybe swap out Predator for Lone Wolf? You get a blank re-roll on offense and defense.

Arc dodging is better than rolling dice any day, all day.

not against turrets (goddamn thrusters can't grace my interceptors soon enough)

I know the TIE Advanced flies like a fried egg, but with Boost, Barrel Roll, two actions and buffs to his offense through the EPT, he really should survive quite well.

Eh, perhaps I play Vader badly but I basically paint a big red target on him and send him to his death (same as B-wings). I think he looks more dangerous than he is, tbh. He has a great pilot skill and ability but ultimately he has 2 attack dice and won't be generating spectacular kills. He is a reliable source of early-game damage, and I treat him this way.

Vader gets to plink some shields off and perhaps dish some hull damage but more importantly he is distracting the Rebels so his wingmen can get behind them and stay behind them. At least that's how I play it (I haven't proxied the new Advanced cards).

To be fair, Vader does make an excellent punching bag

Having a Tie's green dice + 2 shields and two defensive actions to turtle with tend to exacerbate his survivability quite a bit

Problem is, you have to give the enemy a reason to shoot him. He's not Biggs, you know

His pilot skill, his ability and his freaking name is usually enough incentive to target him first.

He has a great pilot skill and ability but ultimately he has 2 attack dice and won't be generating spectacular kills.

Problem is, you have to give the enemy a reason to shoot him. He's not Biggs, you know

You guys did read the OP where he said he was flying Vader with the forthcoming Advanced Targeting Computer, right? The upgrade that (combined with predator) boosts their offense up to focused interceptor levels.

He has a great pilot skill and ability but ultimately he has 2 attack dice and won't be generating spectacular kills.

Problem is, you have to give the enemy a reason to shoot him. He's not Biggs, you know

You guys did read the OP where he said he was flying Vader with the forthcoming Advanced Targeting Computer, right? The upgrade that (combined with predator) boosts their offense up to focused interceptor levels.

You did read my post where I said that he shouldn't replace ATC with Jammer because otherwise Vader wouldn't justify his point cost (or the opponent's attention), right?

The boost ATC provides to Vader's offense is the reason he would be worth shooting first (let alone including in a list, imo)

I was flying:

Darth Vader (29)

Predator (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Autothrusters (2)

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

The other guy was flying:

Dash Rendar (36)

Push the Limit (3)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Mercenary Copilot (2)

Outrider (5)

Jake Farrell (24)

Outmaneuver (3)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Push the Limit (3)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Total: 100

Ended up winning because...Echo... but the Interceptor was 1-shotted (unlucky 4-eyeball green dice roll at R3 which negated Autothrusters). Jake and Dash blew up Vader on turn 2. Admittedly, Dash had some good rolls... but, still, I generally seem to have the problem of people targeting Vader since he seems to be the biggest threat that is the easiest to hit.

Thanks again for any advice.

You could try keeping his distance, making him a harder target to hit.

However, I'm not sure you really have that much of a problem. Your opponents are so scared of Vader that they're ignoring a Phantom. They are not seeing the 4-attack glass cannon as the biggest threat on the board.

Vader may not be getting that many attacks, but I'd argue he's still earning his points just from that.

Vader is so fast I usually spend a few turns moving full speed away from the rest of my force to try to get the opponent to follow him and split thier forces. If they don't follow vader he turns and hits thier flank. If they focus on vader I usually arc dodge, and if he cant clear all arcs, you can always turtle him, Focus, Evade makes him a tough target.

I think there are a number of things you can do. For one, the approach is always brutal to Imperial players. The first few rounds of shots are viscous if you just line up and fly at each other. I find you shouldn't fly your ships in formation. Or, fly them in separate groupings. Have one group with Vader and another far enough away. Approach at a conservative speed and see which group he is going for. If he is going for Vader, then slow him down and gun the other group forward. This way, you can flank hit him before he gets to Vader. If Vader is being ignored, then you can blast him forward to come on the flank. Just going with a varied approach might be able to help you out. You don't want to get Vader in range and facing his entire list.

Look up on YouTube the "Rule of 11" for X-wing. It's the idea of how many spaces you need to move your ships before they are in firing range. I could recommend trying to get Vader up there, but not in range before the rest of your list is up and firing. Maybe Vader moves slower then everyone else.

Fly unpredictably. He gets 2 actions and his dial is not bad. Oh, it doesn't have a 1 sharp turn, but he's got just about everything else. He can boost and barrel roll after that, too. If you get up on the approach, maybe he zips forward past everyone and boost + BR out of the way. He can go 5 forward! Sure, he gets no shots that turn, but it doesn't take him much to turn around and get stuck in. If you look at your opponent's list, he only has 1 turreted ship. It doesn't even have Gunner on it. So, you can survive.

When it comes to it, you might just want to turtle Vader up. With 3 green dice, he can Focus and Evade. That will save him a number of hits. If you are able to minimize the number of shots on him, too, he won't die so easy. Even if Vader is acting like Biggs for a few turns, it allows the rest of your list to attack. It doesn't mean Vader has to die, though. Let your opponent go after Vader if it allows you to whittle his list down. Hopefully, with PS 9, two actions, and about every action available to him, you can not get hit that much.

He has a great pilot skill and ability but ultimately he has 2 attack dice and won't be generating spectacular kills.

Problem is, you have to give the enemy a reason to shoot him. He's not Biggs, you know

You guys did read the OP where he said he was flying Vader with the forthcoming Advanced Targeting Computer, right? The upgrade that (combined with predator) boosts their offense up to focused interceptor levels.

You did read my post where I said that he shouldn't replace ATC with Jammer because otherwise Vader wouldn't justify his point cost (or the opponent's attention), right?

The boost ATC provides to Vader's offense is the reason he would be worth shooting first (let alone including in a list, imo)

I want to say that Jammer on Vader could be very impressive. It makes Vader less of a priority and then forces the opponent to take the focus action. That rules out barrel roll and boost options for your opponent and since Vader moves so late in the turn order he should be able to outmaneuver the opponent pretty well.

That being said, I wouldn't bring Sensor Jammer if the two ship/turret meta is still a thing when the raider comes out.

However, I'm not sure you really have that much of a problem. Your opponents are so scared of Vader that they're ignoring a Phantom. They are not seeing the 4-attack glass cannon as the biggest threat on the board.

Vader may not be getting that many attacks, but I'd argue he's still earning his points just from that.

+1 to this.

On the turn-by-turn micro-strategy level, the comments about using Vader's 2 actions to arc-dodge and turtle are good advice. This is what Vader does best. On the macro-strategy level however, your initial setup has the most influence over targeting priority and the overall flow of the game.

A good setup presents your opponent with two bad choices; you punish them for whichever they don't take. A Phantom/Vader list is fairly fragile, but your high PS lets you place your ships in response to your opponent's placement and force them to choose between the Phantom and Vader. The ship they choose to focus on can use its superior mobility to lead them on a nice little chase through the asteroid field. Whichever ship they neglect becomes your flanker.

If Vader is the priority target, the Phantom can do what a Phantom does: approach from out of arc and strike with 4-5 dice. If they choose the Phantom, Vader has some breathing room to use his extra action for target locks and get the most out of the ATC. I recommend Outmaneuver over Predator for this reason, but Predator isn't a bad choice -- that re-roll isn't dependent on being out-of-arc.

You could exacerbate the process by disengaging a ship and then flying vader (or whichever ship you want to get shot) into range 1, turtling up with defensive actions, and quoting some Dirty Harry

Lord knows its kept my firespray twins happy and healthy by forcing my opponent to spread the damage out, or at least deal it very inefficiently

On the macro-strategy level however, your initial setup has the most influence over targeting priority and the overall flow of the game.

I almost feel like this is a lost art in this game, which is odd as I still think the game is kind of new. It's almost like everyone got lazy about how to play the game. Big, turret ships just fly forward and blast things. Tie Formations with Howlrunner just fly at things. A bunch of B-wings just fly at things. It's like the whole idea of actually maneuvering is lost. That's why people say X-wings are poor ships. Not that they are, but they can't compensate for bad planning like the other ships can.

On the macro-strategy level however, your initial setup has the most influence over targeting priority and the overall flow of the game.

I almost feel like this is a lost art in this game, which is odd as I still think the game is kind of new. It's almost like everyone got lazy about how to play the game. Big, turret ships just fly forward and blast things. Tie Formations with Howlrunner just fly at things. A bunch of B-wings just fly at things. It's like the whole idea of actually maneuvering is lost. That's why people say X-wings are poor ships. Not that they are, but they can't compensate for bad planning like the other ships can.

Ooh,

While I completely agree on the 2 ship lists since they're so focused on just arc-doding and rolling dice, I really can't agree with the Tie Formations

Trying to convince your opponent to murder something that isn't Howlrunner (or Stabber) is a positioning based art because everyones' flying Ties but killing the named one grants you a disproportionate reward. Not to mention that you want to set up scenarios where your one hull Tie is setting up a block with his dying breath rather than getting poofed before he gets to shoot.

Sure, you might not always notice it when there are 7 Ties screaming towards your direction, but when you're flying it you really have to keep positions and maneuvers in mind (if, at the very least, to give Howl a dodge action instead of praying to the holy RNGesus that 3 agility will save her after a barrel-roll).

Similar with the OP's list, I'd imagine, only there's no set priority because you have two very important targets in ATC Vader and ECho. In that case, though, you'd want to maximize their survivability by presenting them as targets in alternates, rather than letting the moment focus them down one at a time.

On the macro-strategy level however, your initial setup has the most influence over targeting priority and the overall flow of the game.

I almost feel like this is a lost art in this game, which is odd as I still think the game is kind of new. It's almost like everyone got lazy about how to play the game. Big, turret ships just fly forward and blast things. Tie Formations with Howlrunner just fly at things. A bunch of B-wings just fly at things. It's like the whole idea of actually maneuvering is lost. That's why people say X-wings are poor ships. Not that they are, but they can't compensate for bad planning like the other ships can.

I agree. I almost always position my ships at an angle to throw off my opponent into which way they are actually moving.

I think people are too focused on ATC as being an auto-include. While it is arguably the best offensive upgrade, especially on Vader and Maarek; we are given several good options in system upgrades. Accuracy Corrector being another one. I personally have a soft spot for Sensor Jammer, it doesn't get enough respect. I've used it and R2-D2 on an E-Wing and SJ prevented more damage than R2 did (something like 4 damage I think).

All that to say that Advanced Targeting Computer is probably the best upgrade for the named Tie Advances (which is why it costs you 1 point instead of being free), but it is in no way the only upgrade that makes the ship worth it.

Just a month ago Vader with Outmaneuver and Engine Upgrade was considered a decent ship. Albeit, light on the offense department, but still viable.

I think that Vader just doesn't have the damage output. An E-wing has 3 red dice and Vader only has 2. Reducing that just to stay alive doesn't add enough to your list overall. A smart player would just ignore Vader and kill everything else in your list.