I just want to check if this is possible because the ship would gain a stress off Dauntless then try and EI off that action but not be allowed because it is stressed?

Yes you can use Dauntless to give you a free action when you overlap, and then that action could trigger EI, to give you another free action, then you'd gain the stress from EI and come back to finish Dauntless by gaining the stress from that also.

End result: one overlap, two free actions, two stress tokens.

I just want to check if this is possible because the ship would gain a stress off Dauntless then try and EI off that action ...

That does not work. But not because of stress.

After receiving stress from dauntless, you can no longer trigger EI. EI triggers after performing an action, not after receiving a stress token.

Yes you can use Dauntless to give you a free action when you overlap, and then that action could trigger EI, to give you another free action, then you'd gain the stress from EI and come back to finish Dauntless by gaining the stress from that also.

That's the only way to do it.

Yep I'm sorry you didn't understand my question. So I use dauntless while bumping so I get to perform an action which then would give a stress. But it is still the activation(3.) stage but also immediately after the action. So what takes effect first gaining the stress or using EI for another action which would then also give a stress? Looking at the rules I would gain a stress for red maneuvers after the completion of the movement phase but this stress is from an action/card so wouldn't it be exactly the same as in the action phase and be given immediately.

I think Parravon is correct. You use the Dauntless title to take an action, then use the Experimental Interface to take an "Action:" card action off the action Dauntless granted you. You then receive the stress from Experimental Interface, and then receive the stress from Dauntless.

BUT, and this is the kicker, Dauntless occurs before the "Check Pilot Stress" step. So, you would move into the check pilot stress step and if you had done a green maneuver, you would remove 1 of the 2 stress tokens you received. So, that whole sequence would only net you 1 stress. But, due do how Dauntless works, you cannot use that trick if you are starting the turn stressed. So, since you've ended the turn stressed, you can't crash again and use Dauntless because you will still be stressed when Dauntless triggers and can't perform the action from Dauntless. You would however be able to do a green move that does not crash and get your action the following turn.

Follow?

Dauntless:

After you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap another ship, you may perform one free action. Then receive 1 stress token.

Experimental Interface:

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action from an equipped Upgrade card with the "Action:" header. Then receive 1 stress token.

This is covered in the FAQ. If you don't ahve the most recent one I'd highly recomend downloading it.

Free actions, such as a free action granted from Squad Leader, can trigger Push the Limit. This can result in an action interrupting another effect, causing that effect to finish resolving later. For example, if a ship performs a free barrel roll action granted by Expert Handling, it could use that action as a trigger for Push the Limit. After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving.

The trick is that the stress from Dauntless or EI comes at the <end of action> trigger, which is also the trigger for EI or PtL. Since you get to decide the order things resolve in, you have the option of using PtL or EI before the stress kicks in.

I thought I read in another that free actions were not multiple actions, but just meant you could take an action not in your action bar. Is that totally off?

I thought I read in another that free actions were not multiple actions, but just meant you could take an action not in your action bar. Is that totally off?

Free actions are any action you take outside of the single "normal" action you take during your activation phase.

I think there is a lot of assumptions here but the rules don't give a definitive answer?

I have read the FAQ and using that reference I would use expert handling to then trigger PTL. This is a strange example because the only ship that could do that is some A-Wings as that is two Elite pilot skills. And also the A-Wing does not have barrel roll, so it would gain a stress. In addition it does not say in the FAQ ignore the rule for not being able to do actions when stressed. I can assume that this is allowed but it is only an assumption because of the reference being specific to A-Wings.

The FAQ also states Expert Handling finishes resolving after PTL. What is resolved? eg do a barrel roll only then PTL then the rest of expert handling? Or is it the first paragraph on the card of expert handling before PTL?

I am uncertain of this situation any help with this please to sway me?

Think about PtL like a subroutine in a program. The action of the EH Barrel Roll is the trigger for PtL. You go off and do your free action from PtL then come back to where you left off with EH and get the stress then.

Follow this with the actual card text:

It's the Perform Action Step and you declare Expert Handling as your action:

==> "Action: Perform a free barrel roll action." Note where I've stopped in the card text. You perform your barrel roll.

====> the barrel roll triggers Push the Limit. "Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar." Note where I've stopped in the card text.

======> You declare a Target Lock (for example) and complete that action

====> then back to where you left off on Push the Limit's card text: "Then receive 1 stress token.", so place a stress token on your ship.

==> then back to where you left off on Expert Handling's card text: "If you do not have the BR action icon, receive 1 stress token." and apply the second stress token if you don't have the barrel roll action icon.

It's called "nesting actions" and EI works in exactly the same fashion. If there is a trigger for something before you get to the stress part or conclusion, then the trigger can take precedence in the order, but you must come back to where you left off to finish what you started. Some things won't fully complete before starting the next thing, thus creating the triggers, but they must still be completed.

Dauntless works exactly the same way. It gives you the opportunity to perform a free action before you get the stress from Dauntless. You can team it up with EI to get another free action, but with two stress tokens. If you're really keen you can throw PtL into the loop and finish with three free actions, and three stress tokens.

Yep I'm sorry you didn't understand my question.

I did not? I think you did not understand my answer.

So I use dauntless while bumping so I get to perform an action which then would give a stress.

Fine. You just resolved dauntless in full.

But it is still the activation(3.) stage ...

It is still the execute maneuver step of the activation phase. I don't see why that's relevant, except for stress removal/placement during the next step.

... but also immediately after the action.

No it is not. It is after resolving the dauntless card, which is not an action. It is also after receiving a stress token. It is not after performing an action.

So what takes effect first gaining the stress or using EI for another action which would then also give a stress?

This is half-way through the dauntless card. You just performed the free action but you did not place the stress token.

What happens first is your choice. You can choose to receive stress from dauntless first. After that you are no longer allowed to trigger EI because the trigger condition is no longer met. Or you can choose to trigger EI first and receive stress after executing EI.

I do play with the assumptions people are making here but I do think there is a definitive correct way.

But like I said firstly dauntless is triggered allowing an action which then says "Then receive 1 stress token"

Experimental Interface says "after you perform an action"

So all I am saying is which one has the immediacy "then" or "after" but I could easily have not seen them.

I cannot find any rules about this?

And some times emails/messages etc may be read conveying a meaning that is not intended so I hope that mine wasn't. Just asking a question.

The "after" comes first in your question, as it triggers an interrupting effect. Once the interrupt has been resolved, "then" follow up with the stress tokens. There are no rules specifically detailing the nesting or interrupting effects, but they do follow the timing flow. Emails have been sent to FFG on numerous occasions and they've confirmed that this is the way it works.

Yep this how I interpret it also but not sure an email exchange be OK for a tournament.

So are they saying parts of the cards with an action header is an interrupt and not just an "after".

I guess there are lots of rules that will always need to be clarified with updated ships/cards etc. Maybe in the next FAQ.

They've already covered EI and PtL in the latest FAQ. Under PtL's entry "a free action ... can trigger Push the Limit. This can result in an action interrupting another effect, causing that effect to finish resolving later." And EI says "see PtL". Performing ANY action at ANY stage of the round can trigger EI or PtL. Dauntless can trigger either of them from it's free action. In the case of EI, your choice of interrupting actions must be an Action headed card, (just as PtL's must be an action bar action). This could be Expose or Expert Handling or even a damage card like Damaged Sensor Array, as long as the Action header is there.

So you could do your overlap, Dauntless to do a free focus, triggering EI to try and flip a Damaged Sensor Array, which could trigger PtL, to give you a free Evade action, then travel back down the chain and pick up the stress tokens (which I calculate to be 3). The interrupts can go on as long as you've got actions available.

Basically the trigger of "after you perform an action..." will always trump the "then receive a stress token" part when it comes to the interrupt/nested actions.

One thing FFG generally try to avoid is updating cards. They will clarify rules regarding cards, but rarely will they reword them to update them. I imagine it could create a real messy time for any TO if two players arrive at a tournament with two different versions of the same card. Which one is the legal card?

I would also imagine anyone that thinks they know the rules well enough to be a TO should be very familiar with the nesting/interrupting effects of EI and PtL.

I think this was brought up in the thread already. The exact wording can be interpreted a few ways. For example "finish resolving" what does that mean?

It means after you completed any free actions, and whatever those actions might have also triggered along the way.

I think this was brought up in the thread already. The exact wording can be interpreted a few ways. For example "finish resolving" what does that mean?

The wording here really has just one interpretation. Parravon has done a really thorough job of explaining, but it boils down to this: Push the Limit and Experimental Interface are both triggered right away when you take any action. You don't finish whatever you were doing, like resolving the text on the Dauntless title that would give you a stress; you come back to that after you activate Experimental Interface.

So, to reiterate, the steps look like this:

(1) Your Decimator overlaps another ship, which triggers the Dauntless title, and you activate it.

(2) You take the free action from the title, which triggers Experimental Interface. You activate EI, which interrupts the rest of the title's text.

(3) You take the free action granted by EI, and the stress from EI.

(4) You go back to where you were in the Dauntless title's text before you were interrupted, and take the stress from the title.

Everyone has said the same thing about this and I do play like this I would just like to see some rules describing it.

I do realize I am sounding very nutty now lol but exact wording and what it means is important.

Everyone has said the same thing about this and I do play like this I would just like to see some rules describing it.

I do realize I am sounding very nutty now lol but exact wording and what it means is important.

You keep asking for the rules describing it, and people keep posting the reference to the exact part of the FAQ describing it... I don't think we know what else you could want.

I still have not found or been shown where the rules/FAQ about this are. People keep pointing out the reference in the FAQ but that does not provide an answer. This is with the exception of the correspondence with FFG which would totally clear it up.

To clarify my question using the example from the FAQ where does it say what "finishing resolving" means and where are the rules saying that "after" is before "then".

All I want is a reference to the rules/FAQ about the 2 questions for these words.

I still have not found or been shown where the rules/FAQ about this are. People keep pointing out the reference in the FAQ but that does not provide an answer. This is with the exception of the correspondence with FFG which would totally clear it up.

To clarify my question using the example from the FAQ where does it say what "finishing resolving" means and where are the rules saying that "after" is before "then".

All I want is a reference to the rules/FAQ about the 2 questions for these words.

In that case, I would direct your attention back to the Push the Limit entry in the FAQ. This time, specifically to the example of Expert Handling ("Action: Perform a free barrel roll action. If you do not have the [barrel roll] action icon, receive 1 stress token. You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship").

The FAQ specifically points out that Push the Limit could be triggered after the free barrel roll action, interrupting the rest of the effect at that point to resolve Push the Limit, and then returning to Expert Handling to resolve the remainder of the text.

"Finish resolving" means exactly what it sounds like, once you finish the interrupting effect you return to the original effect and finish resolving from wherever it was interrupted.

FAQ

Free actions, such as a free action granted from Squad

Dauntless consists of 2 parts

Part 1-perform a free action

Part 2-gain a stress

You can tell that this is the case from the fact that they are different things and the card is worded "do X then do Y"

PTL triggers after you perform an action. The FAQ says " Free actions, such as a free action granted from Squad

Leader, can trigger Push the Limit. " therefore part 1 of dauntless can trigger PTL.

Once you have done part 1 of dauntless (taken a free action), PTL triggers. Now there are 2 things you are supposed to do at the same time, perform a free action with PTL and gain a stress from dauntless.

The rulebook specifies what happens when a player has 2 things they are supposed to do at the same time, he/she chooses which order to do them. So, if you are supposed to perform a free action from PTL and gain a stress from dauntless at the same time, you can choose to perform the action first.

I am also assuming that Dauntless has 2 parts but cant find any rules to confirm this or what is a "part" for "resolving".

And I think you are referring to the FAQ

Simultaneous abilities (such as when both players must trigger Swarm Tactics at the start of the combat phase) are resolved in initiative order.

or

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order? A: Yes.

I don't think the situations in this thread are happening at the same time. There is an action that triggers another action.