The Imperial HUGE Ships took 98 pages to get FFG to announce the Raider.

Are you sure that's a cause-and-effect relationship?

The Imperial HUGE Ships took 98 pages to get FFG to announce the Raider.

Are you sure that's a cause-and-effect relationship?

Of course it is the power of that thread reached back in time and changed the minds of FFG at a crucial moment.

To pit my two cents without actually contributing anything positive...

I'd like to shoot down ARC-170's, but not fly them.

Initially, I thought the idea of an attack value of 2 was lame, considering how heavily armed it is. However, attack value is an abstract of how effective your weapons are against modern targets, not how many guns you have. Since the ARC is old, its guns might not be as effective and their condition may have deteriorated. So I think an attack value of 2, with the possibility of gaining more through upgrades and abilities, would be reasonable.

Considering it was primarily fighting droids, maybe it could somehow be more effective vs astros, system, and modification upgrades?

Well the cannon mounts had to physically move in order to track targets and had a smaller field of fire, how about its the first ship with a new smaller arc for firing.

It is very unlikely that prequel ships are an interesting investment given the way the Star Wars franchise is currently developing. There is little that can be done about that.

Possibly, but I wouldn't bet on it. There's plenty of prequel content available in FFG's various Star Wars offerings, X-Wing included. The Clone Wars cartoon is still part of the cultural zeitgeist. Fan polarity aside, the prequels have long since demonstrated to be a profitable intellectual property, even well into recent years. I'm sure Disney is not ignorant of that fact, either.

I'd say it's interesting enough to warrant some consideration. I couldn't personally provide FFG with the total revenue to support a standalone-but-compatible prequel game, but I would try my damndest.

Yeah but they were all done under lfl who refuse to accept the disdain the public holds for the prequels, we are now firmly into the Disney era and they do recognize the fact and have pulled away from that part of star wars.

Ships from those abominations should never appear in x-wing, make a separate game maybe but they don't belong in civil war era games, headhunters and y-wings were around long before the prequels so no they arnt a back door that allows the rest in.

Not that I know even one person who wants to fly droid fighters.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

..... seriously?

Star Wars fans love Star Wars. They go to see Star Wars movies. Nobody knew what they were in for when episode 1 came out. Then we heard episode 2 was better. Ditto for episode 3. The movies were guaranteed to perform, just like episode 7 is virtually guaranteed to do well, whether or not it is actually a good movie.

Public disdain for the prequels is all over this thread. No, not everyone disliked the prequels, but I think it's a fantasy to think that there isn't a very large group of SW fans who have "disdain" for the prequels. I'd say I was sure of it, but I don't have a poll at hand to confirm.

I don't hate the prequels, I just think that a lot of potential was wasted. I wouldn't mind an N-1 Naboo Starfighter, but I think there is a bit too little variety for the droid side.

Regarding public disdain for the prequels: That might be so with adults that grew up with the original trilogy, but I started teaching at a primary school in 2010 and all the kids talked about was "star wars" - they meant the animated TV show "The Clone Wars".

To "harvest" this generation of Clone Wars infused prequel-kids, (that will move on from their star wars lego eventually), FFG probably will release something at some point, or at least license the flightpath system again - unless they go straight for the new sequels and the mix of ships already available, plus new ships from the sequels. I still think it's money lying on the street.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Yes because people flocked to take their kids to see the phantom menace when it was re-released didn't they...oh wait no they knew better and only the die hard's went which is why they didn't bother converting the rest into 3D.

Yet in 97 when special edition came out everyone flocked to see the OT up on the big screen again, because its the kind of positive memory you want a child to have.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Repeat after me: "Correlation does not equal causation" 1000 times.

Some of the worst pieces of crap made megabucks, some of the best movies and games of all time commercially flopped.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Repeat after me: "Correlation does not equal causation" 1000 times.

Some of the worst pieces of crap made megabucks, some of the best movies and games of all time commercially flopped.

Look at transformers 1,2,3 and four truly terrible movies with crap direction, crap acting and CGI that makes you strain your eyes so you can tell one robot from the next yet because it has explosions and near naked women on display it rakes the money in.

I don't hate the prequels, I just think that a lot of potential was wasted. I wouldn't mind an N-1 Naboo Starfighter, but I think there is a bit too little variety for the droid side.

Regarding public disdain for the prequels: That might be so with adults that grew up with the original trilogy, but I started teaching at a primary school in 2010 and all the kids talked about was "star wars" - they meant the animated TV show "The Clone Wars".

To "harvest" this generation of Clone Wars infused prequel-kids, (that will move on from their star wars lego eventually), FFG probably will release something at some point, or at least license the flightpath system again - unless they go straight for the new sequels and the mix of ships already available, plus new ships from the sequels. I still think it's money lying on the street.

Yeah, I think that there is a place for a prequel game. I don't know about merging it into the current game, partly because it would be so polarizing. Also, Clone Wars wasn't that bad for a TV show.

Someone made the point earlier that not many people would be eager to play as droids, and I could see that being a problem with a prequel game. Did anything you saw with kids speak to that idea?

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Repeat after me: "Correlation does not equal causation" 1000 times.

Some of the worst pieces of crap made megabucks, some of the best movies and games of all time commercially flopped.

The claim was *not* that the prequels were of a high quality. So the notion that some bad movies make a lot of money is irrelevant, because sometimes, bad movies are still appreciated by many. And some good movies are disdained by many.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Repeat after me: "Correlation does not equal causation" 1000 times.

Some of the worst pieces of crap made megabucks, some of the best movies and games of all time commercially flopped.

But now you're committing another fallacy: the red herring. The original claim was that 'the public' disdains the prequels. If that were true, then it stands to reason that the prequels would not do well at he box office.

The claim was *not* that the prequels were of a high quality. So the notion that some bad movies make a lot of money is irrelevant, because sometimes, bad movies are still appreciated by many. And some good movies are disdained by many.

So you're saying the prequels are bad movies that many of us appreciate? I'm a little confused.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Repeat after me: "Correlation does not equal causation" 1000 times.

Some of the worst pieces of crap made megabucks, some of the best movies and games of all time commercially flopped.

But now you're committing another fallacy: the red herring. The original claim was that 'the public' disdains the prequels. If that were true, then it stands to reason that the prequels would not do well at he box office.

The claim was *not* that the prequels were of a high quality. So the notion that some bad movies make a lot of money is irrelevant, because sometimes, bad movies are still appreciated by many. And some good movies are disdained by many.

So you're saying the prequels are bad movies that many of us appreciate? I'm a little confused.

But the fallacy is this: if someone says "Many people enjoyed the prequels" and you reply "Yes but sometimes bad movies are appreciated by many" then you are committing the Red Herring.

The movies' inherent or objective quality was never the point. Particularly in this thread, where some believe that the prequels were popular enough to warrant prequel ships in our precious game (as if that will ever happen!)

Some people enjoyed the prequels. many watched the prequels because it was Star Wars and there was much hype. I was there. It was a big deal.

I was in college at the time, and now I have all the nostalgia.

The prequels themselves were weak, at the time reviled by many fans - many have since gotten over it.

Good things HAVE came out of the prequels, the clone wars series is solid and the ship designs - including the Gozanti are solid.

Just because something comes from the prequels doesn't make it bad. Just because something comes from the OT/EU doesn't make it good.

On track to the ARC170.

Was it shoehorned willy nilly into Galaxies? Oh hell yes. Didn't need to be there at all.

Is it a beautiful ship? I say yes, others would argue.

Could it conceivably be used? Along with the LAAT absolutely. One of my pet projects way back when was a group of clones that did not obey 66 and went rogue, keeping their kit and becoming essentially neo mandalorian clone mercs.

Should it be in X-wing?

What faction should it be in?

Here are the two REAL questions.

If this were the XG-1 I'd say yes and Imperial.

There is absolute justification for all 3 factions to use the ARC, Torrent, Vwing LAATS and shuttles.

Rebels because they could be updated to be used as stand in vessels especially for the earlier Rebellion era.

Imperials as essentially national guard. Planetary defense units that haven't gotten updated ships, or possibly black ops units that don't want to show Imperial equipment.

Scum, old ships are cheap and easily updated. Or maybe they are mercs that have had them for a long while, Zaeed would give anything to fireJessie again afterall.

But should these ships be in?

My opinion is yes - but AFTER certain ships make an appearance first. Scum need some of the ships from Galaxies and SOTE, as well as other EU sources.

Imps gotta have the Assault gunboat if nothing else.

Rebs could do with the nova courier and possibly x-wing variants. I maintain that a rebel stolen lamba should be an option too.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

Yes because people flocked to take their kids to see the phantom menace when it was re-released didn't they...oh wait no they knew better and only the die hard's went which is why they didn't bother converting the rest into 3D.

Yet in 97 when special edition came out everyone flocked to see the OT up on the big screen again, because its the kind of positive memory you want a child to have.

That's not a very fair comparison for several reasons.

First, the special editions biggest draw was that they were special editions: new effects, new scenes, etc. TPM 3D had nothing new besides the 3D, which not many people are big on anyways, so it's not the biggest draw.

Second, at the time of the special editions, as they mentioned in the trailer for it, the only way to watch star wars was in standard defintion on a small, non-widescreen, non-hdtv. When TPM 3D came out, it was already on blu ray, so people could watch at home in high def, on a large widescreen tv, and also surround sound is much more common now as well.

It's nothing to do with how good the prequels are. You think all the EU sources already used were good peices of art? It's about how cool the ships are.

Some of the prequel ships were very cool, and many of us would like to play with them, and that's that. I don't think such ships exist in the numbers to make a dedicated game work though, so I think being in X-Wing is the only option.

Also, enough with this "the guns are old and will be less effective than modern ones" line. Even if we accept that the technology has moved on significantly in that time*, fine, so newer versions of the ARC will have newer guns. Non-issue.

*which I don't: Luke's lightsaber seemed up to date, droids the same model as C3-P0 were still in active service on fancy aristocrats' personal ships, the current X-Wings were designed for the R2 series Astromech, etc; as far as I can tell the only big change was capital ships having a tendency to get bigger

Agreed, Rebel Assault II was terrible and there you have the TIE Phantom. I doubt we will see ships designed for the prequels or clone wars, even if later they appeared in Civil War EU.

But who knows. There you have the Senator's Shuttle token and the Seismic Charges.

but alot of us dont like the prequel designs and would highly resent having to buy those ships to get upgrades.

but alot of us dont like the prequel designs and would highly resent having to buy those ships to get upgrades.

What if they were released in 3 ship packs, with a paint scheme for each faction, one wave at a time, with only upgrade cards available in other ships or only usable by those ships?

What's more, no named pilots, only PS 1/2 3/4 and 5/6 (depending on ship). with the 5/6 having EPT.

Keep them on the fringe of meta but make them available, basically.

but alot of us dont like the prequel designs and would highly resent having to buy those ships to get upgrades.

That's a terrible argument! Not everyone likes every ship design, that's how it goes. I'm not a fan of the TIE Phantom, YT-2400 or Scyk, but I wouldn't be so selfish as to say that's a reason you shouldn't get to play with them.

I have to say, since I sell custom 3D printed ships for the game I am in a good position to say if people would buy which ships. Its not perfect since the stats of the ship or the cards included are more relevant than the ship itself, but for the sake of argument.

People do not care for prequel ships. There are a few exceptions like the Jedi Interceptor, the ARC-170 and the clone Y-Wing (used as a proxy for the Y-Wing). Its amazing how many obscure Civil War ships are more popular than ships that appear in the movies. The YV 929 is more popular than the Naboo Fighter and nobody cares for Separatist Ships. Even the Knights of the Old Republic ships are more popular than the prequel ships. Its quite baffling.

Also, enough with this "the guns are old and will be less effective than modern ones" line. Even if we accept that the technology has moved on significantly in that time*, fine, so newer versions of the ARC will have newer guns. Non-issue.

??? I don't see how you could argue that. ..the ARC wasn't like the Z-95 where it stuck around after it was obsolete (or at least to the same extent). There aren't any newer ARC's for when the game takes place, just clone wars relics.

Guns are machines and wear out over time.

Not to say you don't have a point with upgrades and refits, but I think that should be reflected in upgrade cards, not base values.