The Z-95 was made before the Invasion of Naboo yet you're ok with that being included?

The AF4 is a relatively modern model of Z-95. The Z-95 is also commercially available.

Going by WOTC's Starships of the Galaxy

Standardised starts normalised to player characters.

The Z-95 was made before the Invasion of Naboo yet you're ok with that being included?

The AF4 is a relatively modern model of Z-95. The Z-95 is also commercially available.

Going by WOTC's Starships of the Galaxy

Standardised starts normalised to player characters.

Do you have a better source on the specific capabilities of the ARC-170?

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

I suspect that's just your dislike for the ship speaking, FFG will do whatever fits, both thematically and in gameplay. Besides, it's nothing new, really - we already have rear arcs, ships that can fire their primary and secondary weapons in one turn and upgrades unique to one ship, it's just a new combination of existing ideas. Like most ideas are, in fact.

I've no problem with the ARC, I just think it's outdated in the GCW era.

The Z-95 was made before the Invasion of Naboo yet you're ok with that being included?

Going by WOTC's Starships of the Galaxy book the ARC 170 has stats very similar to the x wing, except speed and maneuverability (same guns, even though its only got two laser cannons they hit hard) Most of the systems stuff are handled by astromechs and what isn't can be easily upgraded so that fits fine

The headhunter predates the prequels so does the y-wing and firespray, people don't have an issue with them because they arnt tainted by association with those crimes against cinematography.

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

With a rear arc.

Why? The A-wing and Lambda don't have them. The A-wing can do the backswivel and the Lambda has an actual tailgun.

Do you have a better source on the specific capabilities of the ARC-170?

WotC's RPG stats are not a source. They're gameplay mechanics.

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

With a rear arc.

Why? The A-wing and Lambda don't have them. The A-wing can do the backswivel and the Lambda has an actual tailgun.

Do you have a better source on the specific capabilities of the ARC-170?

WotC's RPG stats are not a source. They're gameplay mechanics.

Three reasons: because it would be cool; because it would probably be a Large ship, and those are much easier to fly when they're not limited to the standard firing arc; and because currently Rebels don't have access to a ship with a rear arc.

Also, while the A-Wing's ability to fire backwards is invisible, it's a huge part of the ARC-170 - not just a massive cannon on the back, but a dedicated gunner for it too. I think the Anti-Persuit Lasers represent the rear gun on the shuttle, but that's not a huge cannon like on the ARC.

I've no problem with the ARC, I just think it's outdated in the GCW era.

You're outdated in the GCW era! HA!

WotC's RPG stats are not a source. They're gameplay mechanics.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

It'd be really cool if it was available for all 3 factions, if it ever is released.

I dont understand how distaste for the prequels translates into why FFG shouldn't introduce prequel ships. And i highly suspect any notion of "significant portions" of the user base hating the idea of prequel ships in our oh-so-holy minis game is more a case of the loudest people being heard the most, and not even remotely representative of the actual community. I didnt like the prequels that much, and i've never actually seen Episode 3 in its entirety. I just fast forwarded to fight/space combat scenes. I still think the ARC looks badass, and having it in the game wouldn't be any weirder than seeing HWK's or Lambdas on the battlefield. People need to understand that a starfighter's role and capabilities do NOT translate from the media in which they are presented and the what they find themselves in the game. Does anyone want to argue that Shuttles regularly were upgunned and were found supporting tie squadrons? Or that the rebels regularly used hwks as tactical support ships? I can't think of any game, book, or movie in which they were.

Z-95 got updated, modified and made civilian available by the GCW. No reason the ARC could be, or ANY Clone wars era fighter.

I have made this point before and I shall make it again. Technology in the Star Wars universe doesn't seem to advance very quickly. What does change is essentially the meta. The Republic countered droids with comparatively expensive clones using complex and expensive ships. The ARC-170 is an example of this. The Republic also valued life more, putting effort into keeping clones and civilians alive and healthy.

The Empire chose to go with more numerous but less individually powerful TIE fighters. These were faster and relied on speed to stay alive. This went well with the Empire's view of life, people were less important than society. So why spend money on expensive ships when you can build 5 times as many and overwhelm the opposition. It is interesting to note the Empire in some ways mimics the Droid armies of the CIS.

There is nothing to say that the ARC-170 wasn't still a good ship. It did require 3 crew. It was more maintenance heavy (the TIE was renowned in EU as being low maintenance). It had systems and equipment (such as a life support system and hyperdrive) that the TIE did not. But all these differentiate it from the TIE they don't invalidate it.

Anyway rant over.

In terms of gameplay, I see it as 3 1 4 3 with a dial like the Y-wing but the 4 straight and 3 turn white. The 2 bank and 3 straight green. The 2 turn would be red.

System, Torpedo, Bomb, Crew

Rear Arc

A Crew to allow turret fire.

Rear Gunner

ARC-170 Only

When attacking, reduce primary weapon attack by 1 for the remainder of the round. Perform a primary weapon attack from your rear firing arc. You may immediately perform an attack out of your forward firing arc. You cannot perform another attack this round.

How could an ARC have 3 attack? It has 2 laser cannons fore, and 2 aft. Considering that the Advanced, which has higher-power laser cannons, yet also only 2 of them, is 2 attack, and the Defender, which has 4 higher powered cannons, still only has 3 attack, it seems to me that the ARC will almost certainly have to possess 2 attack.

Give it an auxiliary arc, sure. Give it a new crew card that lets it fire out of both arcs in one turn (but preferably don't make it ARC-170 only; this could be a chance to give a slight boost to the Firespray). Allow it to be the very first crew + astromech ship. But 2 attack is pretty much what it's going to have to be stuck with, especially if you don't want it to be so expensive that you can only take 2 in a list.

HEAD DESK

This has been covered so many times - number of guns =/= firepower

HEAD DESK

This has been covered so many times - number of guns =/= firepower

Exactly, SIZE MATTERS.

Of the guns of course.

Ladies.

I feel like it could have some relevance at about 15 points for something like a 2/1/4/2 stat line, with a full secondary firing arc (that is, just a rear arc like the Firespray, with no fiddly rules), with torpedo, crew, and astromech for upgrades. It's on the large-ish side for a small base, but that's okay.

A Tailgunner crew, allowing you to make an attack in your secondary arc after making an attack in the primary arc, could be cool (good call, Bilisknir) and, at 2 Attack, I wouldn't have any balance concerns.

...but there's no reason it has to have 2 Attack. It would be just as easy to justify 3.

HEAD DESK

This has been covered so many times - number of guns =/= firepower

Exactly, SIZE MATTERS.

Of the guns of course.

Ladies.

Exactly!!! Size!!:

I think these are the biggest cannons I´ve seen in a fighter size ship in the starwars universe

The things are just medium laser cannons. It's not like they're HLCs or anything.

As for the balance argument, a small-base ship with an auxiliary arc that combines both astromech and crew (and maybe even system) upgrade slots would be prohibitive with 3 attack. 2 attack opens up all kinds of potentialities for it, allowing FFG some leeway to implement upgrade combos and whatnot that would be broken on a 3 attack ship.

Yeah, but two attack has the problem of being two attack. People thought that was fine for the TIE Advanced, and look how that worked out! Nah, gotta be three, I reckon. If anything cow they're so big, it would feel wrong if it didn't hit hard.

You could avoid the crew+astromech problem (if there is one) by not having a crew slot, but say that the primary weapon only fires forwards. To fire from the rear arc you have to use a cannon, which means equipping a non-unique, non-free title.

I like the idea of firing your primary weapon forward AND your secondary weapon backwards though, it would be a cool unique feature. Plus no System slot, meaning no Fire Control System, so not much chance of modifying both attacks (unless you have focus plus target lock).

Actually that's a point - I don't think the common crew+astromech combo people are thinking of would be a problem, since you'd be crazy not to take Weapons Engineer.

I don't see why the ARC 170 should have crew, sure it can fit three people in there but is there really room for a tactician to set up a command station in there or what have you? I don't think so, crew should be reserved for ships with actual room inside them for crew. And yes I think the B-Wing/E and the Phantom both shouldn't really get crew

The ARC-170 would pretty much need an astromech slot.

It also is a Recon ship (it's in the acronym), loaded with advanced sensors in the nose, as well as jammers and such, making it a prime candidate for a Systems slot.

Finally, it includes a crew of 3. If the Phantom and the B-wing/E both get a crew slot, then the ARC-170 would qualify for one as well.

Taking the combined advantages of Crew, Astromech, and System upgrades, along with an auxiliary arc, 2 attack is reasonable. A System upgrade allows for Accuracy Corrector, while a Fire-Control System would work nicely with a potential new crew that allows it to attack out of both arcs. Ultimately, it gives options that no current ship has. Doing all this while also having 3 attack would put it at Aggressor levels of costliness.

When you add this to a 2 dice primary attack it makes the ship much more interesting. Chances are the Cannon is the best gun you have, so you have to dogfight in a very diferent way, you need to be aware of what is behind you.

Me and my group have used them this way and they are lots of fun. Its a ship like no other.

This all depends how logical you're going to be.

The rear crew slot is obviously taken up shooting from the rear arc. The middle one is, according to Wookiepedia, optionally used for manning the front guns or as a co-pilot. Now since the front guns don't swivel, I don't see any advantage having a dedicated gunner for them, but I'm not sure that much logic belongs in this decision. If it did, we'd have a crew slot in the new Y-Wing title.

Again, system slot depends on the logic you use - A-Wing apparently should have one but doesn't. I think they want to keep that for really advanced modern ships, giving it to a old one might feel wrong (despite being perfectly logic, in accordance with the whole technology barely changes argument).

When you add this to a 2 dice primary attack it makes the ship much more interesting. Chances are the Cannon is the best gun you have, so you have to dogfight in a very diferent way, you need to be aware of what is behind you.

Me and my group have used them this way and they are lots of fun. Its a ship like no other.

I think it needs a cost (whatever the capability is worth). That way that cost doesn't need to be included in the ship itself, making that upgrade not an auto include, giving you more options.

How about instead of a Cannon slot you make it a Turret slot that is restricted to Fire Arcs only and +1 to Range.