From my point of view, however, the high quality designs from the prequels are being ignored in favour of designs from EU/'Legends' sources that are of a much lower standard. And that is a shame.

By which you mean what, the TIE Defender, Phantom? the YT2400? HWK?

Though I know that a lot of these ships have a quite a bit of history attached to them, I just think that they are not designed as well as what appears in the Star Wars films - any film. Specifically, I'm thinking of the TIE Defender, E-Wing, Z-95, HWK and yes, the Outrider, too. They either don't communicate something, are derivative, or both.

Star Wars is for a large part about archetypes that talk to us on an emotional level. Good design does that, too. This combination is part of what makes the films big, but it required significant skill. I think that skill was not always present when all those spin-off products were made. It's like the difference between an Alvar Aalto or Rietveld chair and an original IKEA design - when you see it, you get it that one is made by a better artist and the other by a lesser one. Good design affects the viewer, and in Star Wars this was done in good harmony with how the movies were supposed to work. The effects, the designs, the action - everything made the viewer feel certain emotions.

Don't get me wrong, I like all or most ships in the game; my HWK flies fine (and looks nice regardless of comparisons) and I do build squads with E-Wings. But the difference with the films' designs can be seen, and I'm convinced the miniatures would improve if the prequel ships were included. The look of the minis is an important aspect of enjoyment of this game, so I think there is something to be gained here.

I'm still holding out for a separate-but-compatible game, I think that's the best option for everyone.

With that solution, prequel haters can get lost (separate game), but those interested have the option of using the same templates/tokens (compatible) and even having informal, house-rules, mixed-era games. Like Epic, there wouldn't need to be a concern about the normal X-Wing 100 pt tournament games getting "polluted", but there would still be the option for separate Republic-era games.

Basically like the Horus Heresy is to regular 40K then?

Not familiar enough to say with certainty.

Basically like the Horus Heresy is to regular 40K then?

Effectively yes.

Then why is everyone saying they don't.

In the predator art I am seeing a CR40 Lulsa, a Lorenar Strike Cruiser, Tie Fighters, Star destroyers and a Y-wing.

There is a ship which could be an ARC. don't think it is.

Because it has been repeated so often, many people believe it. They use the lack of PT stuff as evidence, even though they do use a lot of PT content.

True, the TIE LN was set to be replaced by the superior interceptor. HOWEVER:

It's a galaxy spanning empire with galaxy spanning bureaucracy, and frankly reserves have to have mothballed stuff.

Old ship hulls can and are refitted with newer gubbins. Scum would do this.

Lastly. Rule of cool. If I could make a spitfire fly as good as an F-22. I'd do it.

In space, without avionics to worry about so much. Hells yeah.

That'd be more expensive than just getting an F-22 and it'd fly worse.

The Empire likely had mothballed war material, but this is nineteen years down the line. It's very outdated and they're not short on new stuff. It's more likely that the Rebels or the Scum would use old tech than the Empire.

Time to put this whole Predator thing to rest.

It contains the TIE fighter, the X-wing, the Y-wing, the Imperia l-class Star Destroyer, the CR-90 corvette, the GR-75 medium transport and two converted CIS warships in Alliance livery: a Providence-class and a Recusant -class.

There's no Clone Wars starfighters in it.

I can see why some have issues with the prequels, but the severity of the vitriol against them strikes me more as internet hype rather than substance. It would be a shame if that hype was what is keeping ships from ep. I-III from entering the game. But I'm sure there's a reasoned business decision behind it. From my point of view, however, the high quality designs from the prequels are being ignored in favour of designs from EU/'Legends' sources that are of a much lower standard. And that is a shame.

Though I know that a lot of these ships have a quite a bit of history attached to them, I just think that they are not designed as well as what appears in the Star Wars films - any film. Specifically, I'm thinking of the TIE Defender, E-Wing, Z-95, HWK and yes, the Outrider, too. They either don't communicate something, are derivative, or both.

Star Wars is for a large part about archetypes that talk to us on an emotional level. Good design does that, too. This combination is part of what makes the films big, but it required significant skill. I think that skill was not always present when all those spin-off products were made. It's like the difference between an Alvar Aalto or Rietveld chair and an original IKEA design - when you see it, you get it that one is made by a better artist and the other by a lesser one. Good design affects the viewer, and in Star Wars this was done in good harmony with how the movies were supposed to work. The effects, the designs, the action - everything made the viewer feel certain emotions.

Don't get me wrong, I like all or most ships in the game; my HWK flies fine (and looks nice regardless of comparisons) and I do build squads with E-Wings. But the difference with the films' designs can be seen, and I'm convinced the miniatures would improve if the prequel ships were included. The look of the minis is an important aspect of enjoyment of this game, so I think there is something to be gained here.

Yeah, that's what I think too. I'm all for FFG just picking the ships they like best regardless of source, even if it means ships I don't like so much (Defenders, Phantoms) coming out before ones I do (ARC-170s). I also share your criticism that a bunch of ships (particularly the two TIEs I mentioned) are derivative, but I have some sympathy with their designers, as the Interceptor and Advanced both looked just as derivative of the Fighter, so I dunno.

By which you mean what, the TIE Defender, Phantom? the YT2400? HWK?

YT2400 was a big deal due to SOTE and as a lesser extent X-wing alliance, the Defender is HUGE due to TIE Fighter, and has had toy kits and lego sets despite not appearing in a single movie. You gotta respect that.

Phantom... Eh. I kinda see your point . I like the look of them, but Rebel Assault is nothing to be proud of. They did also appear in Empire at War forces of corruption. Phantoms pretty weak.

The HWK... Dark forces and Jedi knight, novels etc too. Rather like the look of the design myself, feel it has it's niche.

There (assault gunboat) are (assault gunboat) still (assault gunboat) ships (assault gunboat) from (assault gunboat) legends (assault gunboat) --- you get the idea, ships from TIE Fighter and X-wing still need to be added before prequels.

The ARC is sexy though and I love it. I do want to see a DX9 (my shapeways one arrived yesterday) the Assault gunboat (really, who would have figured) and the Escort shuttle (shapeways again, will be played as a firespray).

Maybe have the ARC as a Rebel ship and the Assault gunboat as Imperial in a wave? Man I'd love that It'd be an FFG shut up and take my money moment. (One of many).

That's the thing though, you're singing the praises of those ships be virtue of their source material. I don't think that's appropriate. I think the design is the important thing, although again I sympathise with your desire to get ships fom your favourite game/book; myself I'd love an Ebon Hawk but that would make no sense whatsoever

I'm still holding out for a separate-but-compatible game, I think that's the best option for everyone.

With that solution, prequel haters can get lost (separate game), but those interested have the option of using the same templates/tokens (compatible) and even having informal, house-rules, mixed-era games. Like Epic, there wouldn't need to be a concern about the normal X-Wing 100 pt tournament games getting "polluted", but there would still be the option for separate Republic-era games.

I just don't think there are enough cool ships in the prequels for that to work, or enough ships that enough people would be interested in. There's the ARC-170, those Jedi Starfighters people seem to like so much (they look a bit generic and unimaginative to me), Naboo Fighters, the drop ship that Padme's falls out of, the M shaped things (I've seen them in pictures anyway, not in the films), what else is there?

Then why is everyone saying they don't.

In the predator art I am seeing a CR40 Lulsa, a Lorenar Strike Cruiser, Tie Fighters, Star destroyers and a Y-wing.

There is a ship which could be an ARC. don't think it is.

Because it has been repeated so often, many people believe it. They use the lack of PT stuff as evidence, even though they do use a lot of PT content.

Fair enough, well that particular rumour fooled me.

Wings too curved to be an arc, though it's wingtip shooting. looks more like an old school cylon raider.

Edit: yeah with the big pic the one ship is definitely a CIS battleship, the "arc" is a GR75. Big ship nearest still looks like a Loronar.

I'm singing the praises of these ships because of their source materiel because I am playing this game for the source materiel.

This isn't the Star Trek Attack wing forum is it?

Love or hate the EU derivative ships, they are part of the EU which FFG is thankfully embracing.

I just don't understand some peoples sense of aesthetics.

The arc-170 is one of the dumbest, ugliest looking ships to actually get screen time in Star Wars.

I gave no idea what the original source material for the TIE Defender is. The only thing I ever saw it in (before this game) is the original Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels and I immediately fell in love with it. One of the coolest designs I have ever seen.

Touching on the design aspect, I find the decimator and scyk to be SUPER ugly ships. Probably since they were designed for a online video game.

I just don't understand some peoples sense of aesthetics.

The arc-170 is one of the dumbest, ugliest looking ships to actually get screen time in Star Wars.

I gave no idea what the original source material for the TIE Defender is. The only thing I ever saw it in (before this game) is the original Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels and I immediately fell in love with it. One of the coolest designs I have ever seen.

Defender was made for the original TIE Fighter videogame. A lot of people fell in love with it.

I found the ARC170 to really grow on me.

Some of the ships in Galaxies were ugly, but I always liked the Decimator. It felt sleek and deadly to me.

Touching on the design aspect, I find the decimator and scyk to be SUPER ugly ships. Probably since they were designed for a online video game.

I think the Scky could look nice repainted, it's that sick colour they chose for the back that puts me off.

I just don't understand some peoples sense of aesthetics.

The arc-170 is one of the dumbest, ugliest looking ships to actually get screen time in Star Wars.

I gave no idea what the original source material for the TIE Defender is. The only thing I ever saw it in (before this game) is the original Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels and I immediately fell in love with it. One of the coolest designs I have ever seen.

You're not supposed to understand people's senses of aesthetics. That said, yours is objectively wrong. So there.

Edit: yeah with the big pic the one ship is definitely a CIS battleship, the "arc" is a GR75. Big ship nearest still looks like a Loronar.

It's this

I just had a thought on how it could work if they included it. Give it a crew slot, but include a crew card that's ARC-170 only and if equipped allows you to shoot from both arcs in one turn (primary weapon forwards, canon backwards). Gives it a powerful, unique ability if you choose to pay for it, or you can take it without if you prefer.

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

With a rear arc.

You're not supposed to understand people's senses of aesthetics. That said, yours is objectively wrong. So there.

I was tempted to rebut this, but you apparently like the arc so you are clearly blind and I don't like picking on handicapped people.

What's not to like about the arc, the front sculpted like a raptors beak, the bubble cockpit, the huge guns on the wings reminiscent of a klingon bird of prey?

Ok the S-foils are a little unnecessary but other than that it's an eagle shaped Stuka with the guns from a bird of prey!

IN FACT!

Point what? 9: X-wing is based on WWII combat games. Both the video game AND the miniatures game.

If a tinterceptor is a BF109 and the x-wing is a spitfire, the ARC is definitely a stuka!

The s-foils are dinky and pointless looking, the engines are waay to big for good aesthetics, the aspect ratio is too tall for the length and its all unattractively bulbous. The nose is a bit much and I think the guns are kinda lame looking, but those are lesser complaints, if the other stuff were fixed I could probably get behind it.

The only star fighters from the Prequels that I think I like at all are the Eta and the Naboo starfighter. Pretty much all the other ships from the prequels come across like designs done by high school role-players who haven't learned yet how to refine and develop their ideas into something actually good.

I doubt a semi-shoehorned in prequel ship would be the one to have revoluntionary mechanics. It'd be more like a slower, slighty tougher X-wing (assuming in date tech.)

I don't think the dated tech argument holds a lot of water. We keep comparing Spitfires to F-16s and F-22s—we've only been flight-capable for a century. On the other hand, Star Wars technology's been mature enough for FTL for thousands of years. There plainly aren't any more radical leaps forward in tech.

If the X-Wing is used by the Rebels instead of the ARC, I would imagine it's more a matter of availablity and how it matches the mission profiles, like what was said earlier about the TIEs being inferior to most prequel-era craft. The incremental improvements in the X-Wing would be very slight.

In addition, the X-Wing has maybe 25 years on the ARC? Our newest operational fighter (F-22) is 25 years old. The F-15 is nearing 50. If you fast-forward our tech 5,000 or so years, I don't think you'll see huge gaps over the span of two decades.

Edit: yeah with the big pic the one ship is definitely a CIS battleship, the "arc" is a GR75. Big ship nearest still looks like a Loronar.

It's this

I'd love to see this in Armada.

The s-foils are dinky and pointless looking, the engines are waay to big for good aesthetics, the aspect ratio is too tall for the length and its all unattractively bulbous. The nose is a bit much and I think the guns are kinda lame looking, but those are lesser complaints, if the other stuff were fixed I could probably get behind it.

The only star fighters from the Prequels that I think I like at all are the Eta and the Naboo starfighter. Pretty much all the other ships from the prequels come across like designs done by high school role-players who haven't learned yet how to refine and develop their ideas into something actually good.

Yet you pick the ships I dislike most from the prequels.

The naboo looks too shiny and dinky to be combat effective and feels out of place in the SW universe (at the time anyway, kinda caught up with a lot more prequel stuff in epIII) the Eta-2 Actis... Turn it around and it's one of the things from batteries not included. Too small to have anything on it at all.

Some like curvy, some like svelte.

I also share your criticism that a bunch of ships (particularly the two TIEs I mentioned) are derivative, but I have some sympathy with their designers, as the Interceptor and Advanced both looked just as derivative of the Fighter, so I dunno.

I always thought those ships looked fine, because they are supposed to be derivative of the Tie Fighter... I mean a Tie that looks like a Colonel Viper, or something from Robotech just would make no sense.

loser.

So's your face, HA!

When 900 hundred years you reach, look as good you will not!

Now I think your logic is being obtuse (sorry man). Yes, X-Wing leans heavily on Legends, but that doesn't mean that they're operating in a parallel Star Wars universe, in which new canon won't exist.

Remember that they plan their stuff 18 months ahead of time. I think its safe to presume that they want to stay on Disney's good side, but that they have a bunch of stuff grandfathered in. So, they're not going to 'choose' to do Legends over canon. They're just going to toe a line that works with what keeps the most people happy simultaneously. Because both Disney and the current target audience seem to both want to steer clear of the prequels (because JarJar), they will decide not to go there.

It's the tintermawebs, you're supposed to be obtuse! Anyway, as has been pointed out, there's nothing to stop old stuff being re-canonised, perhaps by FFG. All this about them being outdated cos they have old fashioned targeting computers and, apparently, non-gimbled guns, is clearly a non-issue. Twenty years have passed, they'd probably have had new parts fitted to replace those even if there hadn't been a big breakthrough.

If you're making an argument for the ARC, it doesn't need to be recanonized. It's fully canon, and I thing that a proper respect for the lore would include them as military surplus being sold to private (Scum) and local actors. So, to reiterate, I'm with you on the ' should-be ' part. I just don't think it will be in the ' will be ' part.

I dont use wookieepedia anymore because the way they represent legends, which looks to me to be non-canon. They havent at all kept up with SW writters and what they have said about legends.

I don't think there's any use griping about Wookieepedia if you're not an editor. Crowdsource will be crowdsource. Also, it's like voting. If you don't contribute, you shouldn't complain. But if you do - thumbs up!

Besides the two SW book writters one of the Rebels tv writers said that legends was still canon. We missunderstood the legends announcement. He also said even if something is contradicted its only the fine detales of that story that are non-canon and not the story itself.

Hm, could you source that? Saying that Legends is still canon sounds a bit too nonsensical to me. I'm guessing that what they meant is that Legends could be true, but wouldn't be canon unless a canon source writes it into canon.

Then you got the interview with the SW writer that made Mara Jade. He said that if anything was going to contradict his works he will write new stuff to repair it.

Yeah, part of my understanding of Legends vs. Canon comes from Timothy Zahn. He spoke here locally (he lives on the Oregon coast, so he comes to Portland frequently). He was saying that anything in Legends can be brought into canon. He also said that nobody at Lucasfilm/Disney has contacted him about writing anything. Which is a bummer.

The thing is, with the canon going forward, it can overwrite stuff in Legends. Hell, if the Lucasfilm Story Group (LSG) fails to do their homework, canon can overwrite canon, in which case people will have a fit. Hopefully, they'll do their homework and speak up when Abrams or the people behind Rebels don't do their own homework. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in those conversations, or between LSG and FFG.

Under the new marketing rules and LFL products only canon material can be produced. I know it takes FFG 18 months to setup SW material but if Disney didnt approve of the products FFG made they would have had it thrown out fast just like what they did with the Clone Wars show and the hasbro toy line having all EU collectables cut from production before the legends news was posted.

I'm sure Disney will let FFG produce the in-process parts, even if they don't plan to bring those things into canon. Now, I think it would be awesome of LSG worked to bring the best stuff into canon. I think they could probably do that with Rebels, but I imagine that they're not going to have that much weight with JJ. Now, I would pee myself with delight if JJ Abrams brought in Grand Admiral Thrawn, even if Thrawn was supposed to be dead by then.