my thoughts are the ARC-170 is a rebel only ship, so a Rebel Only tag on the title would be wholly redundant

Why would the Scum need an ARC? Heck, why should any more ships be dual faction?

I get it early on when they didn't even know if people would be interested in S&V. But now? Sorry I just don't see the point.

The point would be that, given the lore, it's just as plausible that ARC-170s would land in Scum hands.

Maybe FFG are privy to some information from Disney that we don't know about yet!

What I don't get is why that card upgrades the front guns and not the rear. Given the size, I can't believe the four tiny guns on the back where as powerful as the two huuuuuge guns on the front in the first place, but if they were why did the Alliance only upgrade the front guns?

Would have been cool to have a turret slot that is restricted to the rear arc. I'm not complaining though.

actually there are only 2 medium laser cannons on the back, not 4. They're just more accurate because they're very close to the ships midline and they're, you know, a turret. Which is why eyeball to crit.

Realistically speaking this is undoubtedly the way the ARC-170 was designed to work from day 1, but because that's really weird to implement(how can you have an aux arc that throws less dice than the front without an additional card that says so?), they just made an auto-include title that made it work the way it's supposed to.

Besides, if they gave it a turret slot but restricted it to the rear arc, the only turret that would even remotely be an upgrade is TLT. Cause Dorsal turret... is literally just worse. It works the same exact way except you can't shoot out to range 3. It'd also be worse because Gunner wouldn't work out of the rear arc. Gunner is an amazing investment on an ARC-170 because if you miss any shot, you have 2 arcs you can choose to fire out one. The front arc has higher damage potential, the rear arc has a higher accuracy. It's effectively half a PWT with none of the cheese of a PWT, and definitely way cooler than a PWT.

That and it'd be pretty dumb to have to pay to equip a turret that's standardized on every single ARC-170.

I thought it had a turret (with two guns) above and below the tail? Certainly does in some pictures, not sure how many cannons are canon.

Cost isn't an issue, you would adjust the cost of the ship appropriately. Could even give a point reduction like equipping systems on a TIE Advanced to encourage people to take one.

Not sure you're right about Gunner - as with letting somebody shoot from both arcs in one turn, I think the number of times you'll have a decent target in both arcs is pretty limited, especially one whom you don't actually want to hit. How often do you envisage that being useful, and why?

my thoughts are the ARC-170 is a rebel only ship, so a Rebel Only tag on the title would be wholly redundant

Why would the Scum need an ARC? Heck, why should any more ships be dual faction?

I get it early on when they didn't even know if people would be interested in S&V. But now? Sorry I just don't see the point.

The point would be that, given the lore, it's just as plausible that ARC-170s would land in Scum hands.

Maybe FFG are privy to some information from Disney that we don't know about yet!

What I don't get is why that card upgrades the front guns and not the rear. Given the size, I can't believe the four tiny guns on the back where as powerful as the two huuuuuge guns on the front in the first place, but if they were why did the Alliance only upgrade the front guns?

Would have been cool to have a turret slot that is restricted to the rear arc. I'm not complaining though.

actually there are only 2 medium laser cannons on the back, not 4. They're just more accurate because they're very close to the ships midline and they're, you know, a turret. Which is why eyeball to crit.

Realistically speaking this is undoubtedly the way the ARC-170 was designed to work from day 1, but because that's really weird to implement(how can you have an aux arc that throws less dice than the front without an additional card that says so?), they just made an auto-include title that made it work the way it's supposed to.

Besides, if they gave it a turret slot but restricted it to the rear arc, the only turret that would even remotely be an upgrade is TLT. Cause Dorsal turret... is literally just worse. It works the same exact way except you can't shoot out to range 3. It'd also be worse because Gunner wouldn't work out of the rear arc. Gunner is an amazing investment on an ARC-170 because if you miss any shot, you have 2 arcs you can choose to fire out one. The front arc has higher damage potential, the rear arc has a higher accuracy. It's effectively half a PWT with none of the cheese of a PWT, and definitely way cooler than a PWT.

That and it'd be pretty dumb to have to pay to equip a turret that's standardized on every single ARC-170.

I thought it had a turret (with two guns) above and below the tail? Certainly does in some pictures, not sure how many cannons are canon.

Cost isn't an issue, you would adjust the cost of the ship appropriately. Could even give a point reduction like equipping systems on a TIE Advanced to encourage people to take one.

Not sure you're right about Gunner - as with letting somebody shoot from both arcs in one turn, I think the number of times you'll have a decent target in both arcs is pretty limited, especially one whom you don't actually want to hit. How often do you envisage that being useful, and why?

I mean, you never know, right? I would think it would offer tactical flexibility. But that might be unnecessary because of Tail Gunner, which i suspect will say something along the line of "if you miss out the front, shoot out the back" kind of deal. Cheaper investment at only two points, but less flexible.

I guess you have a point about Gunner though. I mean, how many times are you going to miss a shot then change targets with Gunner when you dont have to?

Lorewise it would be fitting, but there probably won't be any more multifaction ships to make them more distinct.

my thoughts are the ARC-170 is a rebel only ship, so a Rebel Only tag on the title would be wholly redundant

Why would the Scum need an ARC? Heck, why should any more ships be dual faction?

I get it early on when they didn't even know if people would be interested in S&V. But now? Sorry I just don't see the point.

The point would be that, given the lore, it's just as plausible that ARC-170s would land in Scum hands.

Maybe FFG are privy to some information from Disney that we don't know about yet!

What I don't get is why that card upgrades the front guns and not the rear. Given the size, I can't believe the four tiny guns on the back where as powerful as the two huuuuuge guns on the front in the first place, but if they were why did the Alliance only upgrade the front guns?

Would have been cool to have a turret slot that is restricted to the rear arc. I'm not complaining though.

actually there are only 2 medium laser cannons on the back, not 4. They're just more accurate because they're very close to the ships midline and they're, you know, a turret. Which is why eyeball to crit.

Realistically speaking this is undoubtedly the way the ARC-170 was designed to work from day 1, but because that's really weird to implement(how can you have an aux arc that throws less dice than the front without an additional card that says so?), they just made an auto-include title that made it work the way it's supposed to.

Besides, if they gave it a turret slot but restricted it to the rear arc, the only turret that would even remotely be an upgrade is TLT. Cause Dorsal turret... is literally just worse. It works the same exact way except you can't shoot out to range 3. It'd also be worse because Gunner wouldn't work out of the rear arc. Gunner is an amazing investment on an ARC-170 because if you miss any shot, you have 2 arcs you can choose to fire out one. The front arc has higher damage potential, the rear arc has a higher accuracy. It's effectively half a PWT with none of the cheese of a PWT, and definitely way cooler than a PWT.

That and it'd be pretty dumb to have to pay to equip a turret that's standardized on every single ARC-170.

I thought it had a turret (with two guns) above and below the tail? Certainly does in some pictures, not sure how many cannons are canon.

Cost isn't an issue, you would adjust the cost of the ship appropriately. Could even give a point reduction like equipping systems on a TIE Advanced to encourage people to take one.

Not sure you're right about Gunner - as with letting somebody shoot from both arcs in one turn, I think the number of times you'll have a decent target in both arcs is pretty limited, especially one whom you don't actually want to hit. How often do you envisage that being useful, and why?

I mean, you never know, right? I would think it would offer tactical flexibility. But that might be unnecessary because of Tail Gunner, which i suspect will say something along the line of "if you miss out the front, shoot out the back" kind of deal. Cheaper investment at only two points, but less flexible.

I guess you have a point about Gunner though. I mean, how many times are you going to miss a shot then change targets with Gunner when you dont have to?

I suspect you may be on the right lines with what Tail Gunner does, but I kinda hope that's not it. I mean yeah, it does offer some flexibility, but I think the opportunities to use it would be so rare I think you'd only take it if it were free and you couldn't spare the points for someone more useful. Unless it has a secondary effect, like giving you a free token or something.

My first thought is of Firsprays. How good will this be on Kath?

I'm glad i was wrong about Tail Gunner. That ability is way better than what i thought it'd be. It definitely pushes rear arc shots up to similar damage potential of shots out the front.

best ******* art ever

I'm glad i was wrong about Tail Gunner. That ability is way better than what i thought it'd be. It definitely pushes rear arc shots up to similar damage potential of shots out the front.

yes, but it costs points to turn you into crap wedge

I like the idea of it on Norra. If you don't want yet another regenerator (c3po + r2d2), you can use her ability to push out a guaranteed crit with the title

combine with Tail Gunner for happy fun times (and possibly bb-8, since you're obviously using PTL to have Norra's ability work at all)

could also work okayish on Thane, mainly because he seems solid even without any upgrades at all

Why would the Scum need an ARC? Heck, why should any more ships be dual faction?

I get it early on when they didn't even know if people would be interested in S&V. But now? Sorry I just don't see the point.

I'm teetering between optimistic and disappointed. The pilots disappoint me the most. They could have been so much better. Should have been.

Upgrades like R3, VT, Tail Gunner etc are useful and good imo. I know that R3 has caused a stink, but i think it'll find a good use. I wanna know what the torp does though.

not sure how r3 can "find good use"

it has to find good dice first

honestly, the pilots aren't bad (except Shara's ability; ugh)

they're not balls out obviously insane like the Inquisitor, but the not-Sharas all have very solid abilities

obviously, Braylen's is the least impressive because it could also not do a **** thing, but considering the alternative (no ability; generic pilot) it's really not that bad

the potential to be able to perform actions after double stressing with r3-a2 is actually pretty cool (2 stress = green move + 50% ability)

Thane is simply action efficiency and Norra, while a bit weird at first glance, can actually be very self sufficient. Just having PTL, kyle katarn, or Alliance Overhaul out the butt makes it useful

I'm teetering between optimistic and disappointed. The pilots disappoint me the most. They could have been so much better. Should have been.

Upgrades like R3, VT, Tail Gunner etc are useful and good imo. I know that R3 has caused a stink, but i think it'll find a good use. I wanna know what the torp does though.

Indeed, I like the ship, the upgrades, the model, the art, but the pilot abilities are decidedly uninspiring. I'm still very much in the optimistic camp though (plus Tail Gunner for Firesprays!!). And I like R3 quite a lot.

yes, but it costs points to turn you into crap wedge

What an absurdly negative way of looking at it.

Removing an evade result is in many cases* the same as adding a red die. An extra red die for 2 points? Yes please.

*perhaps in most cases, and if your meta is into high ability ships then in almost all cases

not sure how r3 can "find good use"

it has to find good dice first

honestly, the pilots aren't bad (except Shara's ability; ugh)

they're not balls out obviously insane like the Inquisitor, but the not-Sharas all have very solid abilities

obviously, Braylen's is the least impressive because it could also not do a **** thing, but considering the alternative (no ability; generic pilot) it's really not that bad

the potential to be able to perform actions after double stressing with r3-a2 is actually pretty cool (2 stress = green move + 50% ability)

Thane is simply action efficiency and Norra, while a bit weird at first glance, can actually be very self sufficient. Just having PTL, kyle katarn, or Alliance Overhaul out the butt makes it useful

Your pessimism is really starting to annoy me. A focus result on a 3 die attack is not that hard to get. A Red Squad Vet with Comm Relay, Juke, VT, and R3 is super dangerous, super tanky, super mobile and super accurate. All you gotta do is R3 ONCE and your shots are more accurate permanently until you need to spend that token, and then you can just get another one that round.

the most common result for a 3-dice attack is hit-focus-blank. Boom. There's your focus. As long as you've thought ahead to stack a TL, you can turn that into a hit or crit with the reroll, then you've got an evade token + juke so those hit results have a higher chance to hit.

Stop wishing for the game to solve it's problems for you and start trying to do it yourself. Or just resign yourself to losing. Your choice, mate.

Really?

An entire post about how the pilots aren't bad is pessimism?

How's about this for a choice:

Actually read the post

Or

Don't bother replying

yes, but it costs points to turn you into crap wedge

What an absurdly negative way of looking at it.

Removing an evade result is in many cases* the same as adding a red die. An extra red die for 2 points? Yes please.

*perhaps in most cases, and if your meta is into high ability ships then in almost all cases

Plus it means that shooting from the back is oftentimes just as good as shooting out the front. MEANING, that you won't need to K-Turn when you can just fly past and shoot out the back. MEANING, that instead of being stressed, you can get an action too. MEANING, that you can choose to modify your attack or defense, or if you have VT you can barrel roll to maintain arc. MEANING, your ship is more flexible in many ways.

Really?

An entire post about how the pilots aren't bad is pessimism?

How's about this for a choice:

Actually read the post

Or

Don't bother replying

The pilots are the only thing you don't hate about the expansion. Even then, you still hate Shara.

" not sure how r3 can "find good use"

it has to find good dice first"

Or

"yes, but it costs points to turn you into crap wedge"

And VT being worthless on everything else because something something IA and AT.

It's irritating. You're looking for the bad uses for things and finding only that. Start looking for good uses. You've done that a little for some of the pilots, and found some pretty neat stuff. Try that for everything in the expansion.

That and you're just so set in your hatred of dice that anything that could compromise dice protection in any way, regardless of how corner case it is, is automatically garbage in your eyes. Think outside the box. Take risks.

Like, i get it, i'm disappointed about some stuff too. But i'm spending my time trying to find their good applications.

Why would the Scum need an ARC? Heck, why should any more ships be dual faction?

I get it early on when they didn't even know if people would be interested in S&V. But now? Sorry I just don't see the point.

I am kind of hoping that there will be a release of current cross faction ship with new pilots for each faction they are currently in

Cross factions ships seriously bleed faction identity.

No fighting in the ARC thread, take it to the Gunboat thread!

What about R3 with Gunner (on any ship)? Seems like it should be cool, but would it? What situation would it work well in? Needs to do more than just give you the evade result, for the cost, but your first attack is probably going to be unmodified, so not great at stripping tokens.

Does Tail Gunner actually make the rear attack better than the front, with the title? Where's the maths bloke?

No fighting in the ARC thread, take it to the Gunboat thread!

What about R3 with Gunner (on any ship)? Seems like it should be cool, but would it? What situation would it work well in? Needs to do more than just give you the evade result, for the cost, but your first attack is probably going to be unmodified, so not great at stripping tokens.

Does Tail Gunner actually make the rear attack better than the front, with the title? Where's the maths bloke?

I would think it would honestly depend on who you attack. I mean, it's definitely not as good if you're attacking the Ghost. It wont be as good if you're attacking a 1 AGI ship. You probably don't approach equivalent damage outcomes until you reach AGI 3 ships.

No fighting in the ARC thread, take it to the Gunboat thread!

What about R3 with Gunner (on any ship)? Seems like it should be cool, but would it? What situation would it work well in? Needs to do more than just give you the evade result, for the cost, but your first attack is probably going to be unmodified, so not great at stripping tokens.

Does Tail Gunner actually make the rear attack better than the front, with the title? Where's the maths bloke?

I would think it would honestly depend on who you attack. I mean, it's definitely not as good if you're attacking the Ghost. It wont be as good if you're attacking a 1 AGI ship. You probably don't approach equivalent damage outcomes until you reach AGI 3 ships.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, though I hope it's before three greens. Depends on their tokens as well. I'd like to see a table.

I embarked on a journey to answer your question. LONG POST IS LONG.

For the purposes of this, Ezra crew does the exact same thing as the refit. Knowing that at 2 dice you have a free focus to crit, you should always target lock when shooting out of the rear arc. Against 1 to 3 AGI ships, when you have only one modifier, shoot out the back if you can. You have more modifiers out the back which will maximize your chance to do as much damage as possible. Against 4+ AGI, shoot out the front.

So what we generally see that my initial expectations were wrong; the lower agility the target, the higher the projected damage from the rear arc, and the higher the agility, the lower the projected damage from the rear arc.

Let's see what throwing Norra's ability does.

So what we're seeing here is an overlap of modifiers. On the rear shot, the TL+Refit+Norra have already maximized damage potential for the most part, but the focus+TL+Norra maximizes the 3(4 counting Norra) dice primary out the front, thus the damage projection is much higher. In the interest of fairness, though, let's see what happens when all Norra has a TL when attacking.

So we see here that shooting out the back is SIGNIFICANTLY more effective than shooting out the front against all AGI ships.

So basically, with Norra, if you cannot guarantee a focus and a TL, set up to shoot out of the back. If you can, shoot out the front.

Cool!