From what? Personal player ships from an MMO where you can choose from any ship in the whole saga don't count.

Well, you're half right there. You couldn't choose any ship... and it WAS a Rebel Only _reward_ though, Imperials could fly it. The ETA-2 was an Imperial Reward, Belbullab-22 was a neutral quest drop, and the ARC-170, Rebel. But anyone could fly those three- they were special.

I suppose you have a point, but, I just feel like it fits the Rebel Aesthetic way, way more.

The Rebel "aesthetic" is a total mishmash of other ships, same with Scum. The only side with an aethestic are the Empire because every single small ship they have at the time of writing is a TIE. Seriously. Six small ships, six TIEs.

I agree, the ARC in its red livery would look more at home with the Rebel craft, but it wouldn't be in that. Look up Imperial ARC or go back a few pages to see what an XWMG ARC-170'd look like.

The Rebel "aesthetic" is a total mishmash of other ships, same with Scum. The only side with an aethestic are the Empire because every single small ship they have at the time of writing is a TIE. Seriously. Six small ships, six TIEs.

I agree, the ARC in its red livery would look more at home with the Rebel craft, but it wouldn't be in that. Look up Imperial ARC or go back a few pages to see what an XWMG ARC-170'd look like.

Well yeah, it is a mishmash. Which is why I like it for Rebels. 3 people and an astromech crew it, it's old, phased out by The Empire, curvy and such with a few exposed pieces here and there, and just looks way too clunky for The Empire. The Imperial Aesthetic tends to be sharp, angular, shades of monochrome with the occasional red or blue.

And I remember the Imperial ARC-170 toy. It's not so bad, but it lacks that fire, that heart that I'd expect for a Rebel ship.

The reason I don't see it working for Scum is that it isn't disposable enough, and requires way too much teamwork to crew effectively. If you've got three guys on payroll with a busted droid crewing a relic of a fighter, it's not going to go as well as three freedom fighters and their trusty droid. At least, I don't believe it would.

It just feels like a Rebel ship to me. I could maybe see it in the hands of grizzled mercenaries that are as thick as thieves, but I have such an easier time picturing a crew like The Ghost's flying one.

That is one of the worst comparisons i've seen. The one time we see a CR-90 go toe to toe with an ISD it loses flat out. You can't say "oh more ISDs blew up onscreen and we don't see any CR-90's blow therefore CR-90>ISD"

There are CR90s in the Rebel Fleet during the big battle

Going back to this thing about it being phased out in favour of the TIE Fighter - seems to me this is further evidence for the argument that newer ships were a result of changing requirements rather than advancing technology - the TIE Fighter is practically the antitheship of the ARC 170: fast, agile, cheap, lightly armed, lightly armoured, one man ship vs slow, cumbersome, expensive, heavily armed, heavily armoured, three man ship.

Going back to this thing about it being phased out in favour of the TIE Fighter - seems to me this is further evidence for the argument that newer ships were a result of changing requirements rather than advancing technology - the TIE Fighter is practically the antitheship of the ARC 170: fast, agile, cheap, lightly armed, lightly armoured, one man ship vs slow, cumbersome, expensive, heavily armed, heavily armoured, three man ship.

And lackwit in the book tarkin which is Canon the imps are still using arcs and v-wings five years after the clone wars there is no such source for rebels using them.

Going back to this thing about it being phased out in favour of the TIE Fighter - seems to me this is further evidence for the argument that newer ships were a result of changing requirements rather than advancing technology - the TIE Fighter is practically the antitheship of the ARC 170: fast, agile, cheap, lightly armed, lightly armoured, one man ship vs slow, cumbersome, expensive, heavily armed, heavily armoured, three man ship.

Er the tie fighter has stronger guns than the arc and they offer a larger field of fire, look at hope their shots are not going straight ahead, the arc however had very limited traversal on its medium lasers.

And lackwit in the book tarkin which is Canon the imps are still using arcs and v-wings five years after the clone wars there is no such source for rebels using them.

Sure, but do you see any of those being used in Rebels?

Yes X-wing is Galactic Civil war, as it should be, BUT they can after the Episode 7 craze dies down easily make a new "Game" with a title like Clone Fighter or something and have prequel ships. Similar to what they did with the Hobbit for the LOTR LCG. This way it is its own game using X-wing rules, and tournament play would ban them from being use in X-wing and visa versa, BUT for casual games you can fight republic vs empire or whatever. It only makes sense for them to eventually want to give the full fan base ships they desire and it is profitable for them. They have already brought in many Prequel era things such as the 501st trooper using the Clone Trooper face picture on the card. Or the Gungan on cloud city at the bar. Nexu in IA. ect ect. It makes it simple as well. If you don't like prequel stuff don't buy the prequel clone fighter game. Its not like you have to worry about them in your tournaments.

My first post here. Hello!

Feel free to correct the following beliefs of mine. I am passingly familiar with the EU, many of the Star Wars games, FFG material, and of course, the movies. SO I may be very incorrect in the following, but:

1- The Z-95 is older than the V-Wing and the ARC-170. It was created before the Battle of Naboo.
2- The ARC is the successor to the Z-95.
3- The X-Wing is the successor to the ARC.
4- The V-Wing appeared near the end of the Clone Wars.
5- It served into the period of the Empire until TIEs could be mass produced.
6- The ARC may not be a popular choice due to the requirements of crew and maintenance.
7- The V-Wing does not have a hyperspace drive, requiring a support network that would be unappealing to the Rebels as well as most Scum/Villainy forces, while for the Empire the more easily mass produced TIEs(which are also cheaper) play more into their philosophy.
8- The Z-95 is around because it is an all around fantastic craft considering its age with no native flaws. The others, not so much.
9- However, both are still quality craft in-universe and it would make sense to find them somewhere.
10- More importantly, the V-Wing is in Stay on Target so they MAY be more partial to it.

I am partial to the V-Wing. I love it. I'd love to see it. I also think that while the ARC is cool, the “precursor to the X-Wing” role is filled by the Z-95 in-game effectively. The V-Wing could fill the same for the TIEs. I'd play them as 2-3-2-1. Remove the evade from the TIE, add the astromech ability. Maybe 18 points?

My first post here. Hello!

Feel free to correct the following beliefs of mine. I am passingly familiar with the EU, many of the Star Wars games, FFG material, and of course, the movies. SO I may be very incorrect in the following, but:

1- The Z-95 is older than the V-Wing and the ARC-170. It was created before the Battle of Naboo.

2- The ARC is the successor to the Z-95.

3- The X-Wing is the successor to the ARC.

4- The V-Wing appeared near the end of the Clone Wars.

5- It served into the period of the Empire until TIEs could be mass produced.

6- The ARC may not be a popular choice due to the requirements of crew and maintenance.

7- The V-Wing does not have a hyperspace drive, requiring a support network that would be unappealing to the Rebels as well as most Scum/Villainy forces, while the more easily mass produced TIEs(which are also cheaper) play more into their philosophy.

8- The Z-95 is around because it is an all around fantastic craft considering its age with no native flaws. The others, not so much.

9- However, both are still quality craft in-universe and it would make sense to find them somewhere.

10- More importantly, the V-Wing is in Stay on Target so they MAY be more partial to it.

I am partial to the V-Wing. I love it. I'd love to see it. I also think that while the ARC is cool, the “precursor to the X-Wing” role is filled by the Z-95 in-game effectively. The V-Wing could fill the same for the TIEs. I'd play them as 2-3-2-1. Remove the evade from the TIE, add the astromech ability. Maybe 18 points?

Yeah, that all sounds about right. It should be noted however, that The X-Wing isn't necessarily a successor to the ARC-170, but shares many of the same design aspects, much like the Z-95. Both of which were designed by Subpro/Incom, whilst the X-Wing was created on Commission by The Empire as their standard fighter. It's kinda' like...

The ARC-170 is like the big brother of the X-Wing, but it's the brother rather than the father. Which is the Z-95.

Though oddly enough I have an easier time picturing the ARC-170 as a big sister rather than big brother. But yeah. They both split off from the '95, in a way.

My first post here. Hello!

Feel free to correct the following beliefs of mine. I am passingly familiar with the EU, many of the Star Wars games, FFG material, and of course, the movies. SO I may be very incorrect in the following, but:

1- The Z-95 is older than the V-Wing and the ARC-170. It was created before the Battle of Naboo.

2- The ARC is the successor to the Z-95.

3- The X-Wing is the successor to the ARC.

4- The V-Wing appeared near the end of the Clone Wars.

5- It served into the period of the Empire until TIEs could be mass produced.

6- The ARC may not be a popular choice due to the requirements of crew and maintenance.

7- The V-Wing does not have a hyperspace drive, requiring a support network that would be unappealing to the Rebels as well as most Scum/Villainy forces, while the more easily mass produced TIEs(which are also cheaper) play more into their philosophy.

8- The Z-95 is around because it is an all around fantastic craft considering its age with no native flaws. The others, not so much.

9- However, both are still quality craft in-universe and it would make sense to find them somewhere.

10- More importantly, the V-Wing is in Stay on Target so they MAY be more partial to it.

I am partial to the V-Wing. I love it. I'd love to see it. I also think that while the ARC is cool, the “precursor to the X-Wing” role is filled by the Z-95 in-game effectively. The V-Wing could fill the same for the TIEs. I'd play them as 2-3-2-1. Remove the evade from the TIE, add the astromech ability. Maybe 18 points?

Yeah, that all sounds about right. It should be noted however, that The X-Wing isn't necessarily a successor to the ARC-170, but shares many of the same design aspects, much like the Z-95. Both of which were designed by Subpro/Incom, whilst the X-Wing was created on Commission by The Empire as their standard fighter. It's kinda' like...

The ARC-170 is like the big brother of the X-Wing, but it's the brother rather than the father. Which is the Z-95.

Though oddly enough I have an easier time picturing the ARC-170 as a big sister rather than big brother. But yeah. They both split off from the '95, in a way.

So what you're saying is that the ARC-170 is Applejack, the X-Wing is Apple Bloom, and the Z-95 is...well, not dead like their parents, so let's say Granny Smith? Makes sense to me.

Er the tie fighter has stronger guns than the arc and they offer a larger field of fire, look at hope their shots are not going straight ahead, the arc however had very limited traversal on its medium lasers.

Doesn't look like it would in the films - so there's a sudden, astonishing increase in gun power during the time between them is there? Even if we set KotoR aside, if technology in the galaxy had been progressing at the rate people think it has for thousands of years their technology shouldn't even look like technology.

Even if there was such an increase in gun power, the ARC 170 is a bigger platform designed for bigger guns - if gun technology at the time the TIE Fighter was created was more advanced you could still make bigger guns, using the new technology and put them on a big platform, but they didn't, they chose to go small.

My first post here. Hello!

Feel free to correct the following beliefs of mine. I am passingly familiar with the EU, many of the Star Wars games, FFG material, and of course, the movies. SO I may be very incorrect in the following, but:

1- The Z-95 is older than the V-Wing and the ARC-170. It was created before the Battle of Naboo.

2- The ARC is the successor to the Z-95.

3- The X-Wing is the successor to the ARC.

4- The V-Wing appeared near the end of the Clone Wars.

5- It served into the period of the Empire until TIEs could be mass produced.

6- The ARC may not be a popular choice due to the requirements of crew and maintenance.

7- The V-Wing does not have a hyperspace drive, requiring a support network that would be unappealing to the Rebels as well as most Scum/Villainy forces, while the more easily mass produced TIEs(which are also cheaper) play more into their philosophy.

8- The Z-95 is around because it is an all around fantastic craft considering its age with no native flaws. The others, not so much.

9- However, both are still quality craft in-universe and it would make sense to find them somewhere.

10- More importantly, the V-Wing is in Stay on Target so they MAY be more partial to it.

I am partial to the V-Wing. I love it. I'd love to see it. I also think that while the ARC is cool, the “precursor to the X-Wing” role is filled by the Z-95 in-game effectively. The V-Wing could fill the same for the TIEs. I'd play them as 2-3-2-1. Remove the evade from the TIE, add the astromech ability. Maybe 18 points?

Yeah, that all sounds about right. It should be noted however, that The X-Wing isn't necessarily a successor to the ARC-170, but shares many of the same design aspects, much like the Z-95. Both of which were designed by Subpro/Incom, whilst the X-Wing was created on Commission by The Empire as their standard fighter. It's kinda' like...

The ARC-170 is like the big brother of the X-Wing, but it's the brother rather than the father. Which is the Z-95.

Though oddly enough I have an easier time picturing the ARC-170 as a big sister rather than big brother. But yeah. They both split off from the '95, in a way.

So what you're saying is that the ARC-170 is Applejack, the X-Wing is Apple Bloom, and the Z-95 is...well, not dead like their parents, so let's say Granny Smith? Makes sense to me.

Er, no. I'd fine the ARC-170 more of a Big Mac and the X-Wing more AJ. But, mostly on point yeah.

1- The Z-95 is older than the V-Wing and the ARC-170. It was created before the Battle of Naboo.

True if you replace "is older than" with "was first produced in." The Z-95 keeps being updated and rereleased like many long running models: it's kind of the Star Wars Ford Transit. The Z-95's an old model but not an antique by default because Incom still make them updated to modern technological standards. You can buy a factory new Z-95 in the GCW.

The ARC-170 was first produced in the Clone Wars as a heavy fighter for the Republic. After the Clone Wars, it continued as a heavy fighter for the Republic for roughly five more years, then was phased out in favour of the TIE fighter. This meant a cease to ARC-170 production: while they'd certainly take time to filter out of the Imperial ranks the ARC ceased to be produced, and the base model's technology stops at about 14 BBY.

As a result, the ARC's somewhat outdated by the GCW. The Z-95 is usually not that severely outdated (although I could see Scum flying some truly ancient rebuilt Z-95s) and its stats are where they are because it's not a heavy fighter like the X-wing: it's a cheap, nimble, relatively low budget fighter craft.

Er the tie fighter has stronger guns than the arc and they offer a larger field of fire, look at hope their shots are not going straight ahead, the arc however had very limited traversal on its medium lasers.

Doesn't look like it would in the films - so there's a sudden, astonishing increase in gun power during the time between them is there? Even if we set KotoR aside, if technology in the galaxy had been progressing at the rate people think it has for thousands of years their technology shouldn't even look like technology.

Even if there was such an increase in gun power, the ARC 170 is a bigger platform designed for bigger guns - if gun technology at the time the TIE Fighter was created was more advanced you could still make bigger guns, using the new technology and put them on a big platform, but they didn't, they chose to go small.

Arc has medium lasers but the tie has laser cannons I know what sounds more powerful.

Size of the weapon is irrelevant look at modern electrics the more advanced tends to be smaller, as for power the arc is powering guns life support and shields where the tie is only powering guns plus the tie supplements it's reactor with the solar panels.

The tie is no doubt much cheaper but that does not equate to it being much worse.

Size is not irrelevant. If you take the same level technology (ie equip the ARC 170 with new guns) the bigger runs will be stronger.

Size is not irrelevant. If you take the same level technology (ie equip the ARC 170 with new guns) the bigger runs will be stronger.

That might be true with a projectile weapon but for all we know most of the contributing factor is heat sinking or aesthetics.

Maybe the size is due to barrel heatsinking allowing faster refire?

This is kinda semantics but accuracy is important.

Size is not irrelevant. If you take the same level technology (ie equip the ARC 170 with new guns) the bigger runs will be stronger.

That might be true with a projectile weapon but for all we know most of the contributing factor is heat sinking or aesthetics.

Maybe the size is due to barrel heatsinking allowing faster refire?

This is kinda semantics but accuracy is important.

I think the important factor is this: in the Star Wars fiction, does Big Gun generally imply Powerful Gun? I would say it generally does.

By that logic, CR-90s are better then ISDs because we see less of them blow up. You're not using logic. I do get the parallel, I'm not blind.

And guys just for reference, I'm not hating on the ARC-170, I really do think it is an ok ship. I'm hating on the idiots that designed it, and thought it would make a good dogfighting ship. I'm hating on how everyone considers it the Republic's X-wing when there's no bloody way anyone design it with the primary intention of dogfighting.

Z-95 = X-wing

Y-wing = Y-wing (duh)

V-wing = A-wing/Squint

ARC = B-wing

EDIT: I'd like to add that the ARC's name is perfect for the role it SHOULD have: AgressiveReCon fighter, an intel ship and bomber. But everything portrays it as a fighter

That is one of the worst comparisons i've seen. The one time we see a CR-90 go toe to toe with an ISD it loses flat out. You can't say "oh more ISDs blew up onscreen and we don't see any CR-90's blow therefore CR-90>ISD"

"Heck watch the movies and they use them as fighters.... And 90% of them get destroyed."

Thats what i poked at. The sole onscreen showing of a starfighter can't possibly be used as an accurate metric of how good it is as a starfighter. Again, in ANH, we see 1 Xwing shot down by TIEs over the Death Star (nameless guy, not counting Porkins here), 2 TIE Fighters shot down, then 3 Y's, 3 X's, Wedge crippled, Biggs dead, and remember Luke takes at least 2 critical hits throughout the battle. Then Han pops 2 TIE fighters. That's a 2-1 ratio in dead starfighters in FAVOR of the Imperials. Thats a really bad ratio considering the Xwing is still considered a better fighter than the TIE Advanced, Darth Vader not withstanding.

I agree that the ARC was more like the B-wing though. But seriously stop using the movie to judge the ARC's combat effectiveness. I don't hear anyone hollering about how terrible the IG-2000 was considering in the comics it never even killed anything before Boba Fett wrecked it(them, however you wanna call it).

You really aren't reading my posts are you? I'm not using the movies to prove its combat effectiveness. I'm using them to support the evidence that IT'S NOT MEANT FOR DOGFIGHTING . There's is a difference. Y-wings aren't meant for dogfighting but they sure are effective against ISDs. And as for the part about CR-90s and ISDs, yea it is stupid, I'm just using your logic.

I'm very OK with the ARC170 not being a dogfighter but more being a Recon Rig with guns.

I'm very OK with the ARC170 not being a dogfighter but more being a Recon Rig with guns.

That's the point I'm trying to get across. It should be common sense to not bum rush a ship with the wingspan of the Falcon into a dogfight.

I'm very OK with the ARC170 not being a dogfighter but more being a Recon Rig with guns.

That's the point I'm trying to get across. It should be common sense to not bum rush a ship with the wingspan of the Falcon into a dogfight.

I think we shouldn't get hung up on labels. Clearly it won't be very manoeuvrable (Y-Wing like, maybe worse?), but should have big guns (ie 3 attack), I think. Really though, the stats should be determined as much by gameplay purposes as fluff purposes - the existing ships tend to seem like a compromise betwixt the two don't they?

Size is not irrelevant. If you take the same level technology (ie equip the ARC 170 with new guns) the bigger runs will be stronger.

Hans blaster is smaller than a storm troopers rifle but is more powerful, so strong in fact it's illegal.

Fine by me, a fast yet relatively unagile dual firing arc ship with good forward firepower sounds good. AGI1 or 2. hull 3-4 shield 2. Front firepower 2-3

Rear firepower 2-3

Actions: Boost, target lock, Focus, something reconny

Dial: forward white 1 green 2-4

Light bank no 1, white 2, green 3(maybe)

Hard bank no 1 red 2, no 3.

K turn at 4.

maybe?

Size is not irrelevant. If you take the same level technology (ie equip the ARC 170 with new guns) the bigger runs will be stronger.

Hans blaster is smaller than a storm troopers rifle but is more powerful, so strong in fact it's illegal.

Depending on the source the E-11 has a mean kick to it.

Depending on the source all blasters, even Leia's sporting blasters can pen hull.

Amusingly and not star wars, in the halo games a SPLAZER (spartan laser, linear laser) can anti tank almost anything in 1 shot. You can hide behind a tree to avoid it. So it is such in the star wars games...

additionally that E11 is usually portrayed as full auto.

Compare: Desert eagle .50 pistol to MP5 submachinegun.