I have to say, since I sell custom 3D printed ships for the game I am in a good position to say if people would buy which ships. Its not perfect since the stats of the ship or the cards included are more relevant than the ship itself, but for the sake of argument.

People do not care for prequel ships. There are a few exceptions like the Jedi Interceptor, the ARC-170 and the clone Y-Wing (used as a proxy for the Y-Wing). Its amazing how many obscure Civil War ships are more popular than ships that appear in the movies. The YV 929 is more popular than the Naboo Fighter and nobody cares for Separatist Ships. Even the Knights of the Old Republic ships are more popular than the prequel ships. Its quite baffling.

Like I said, I think it boils down to ship design, not how great the source was. By which I mean you can love a design from crap source material, and hate crap designs from source material you love. A person's fondness for a source can of course effect in them an attachment to a certain design, such as the Ebon Hawk.

Also, enough with this "the guns are old and will be less effective than modern ones" line. Even if we accept that the technology has moved on significantly in that time*, fine, so newer versions of the ARC will have newer guns. Non-issue.

??? I don't see how you could argue that. ..the ARC wasn't like the Z-95 where it stuck around after it was obsolete (or at least to the same extent). There aren't any newer ARC's for when the game takes place, just clone wars relics.

Guns are machines and wear out over time.

Not to say you don't have a point with upgrades and refits, but I think that should be reflected in upgrade cards, not base values.

It was according to Star Wars Galaxies, apparently. Even without that source, just not being in any current source doesn't mean it didn't happen, in Universe. I think the base model should reflect how you'd expect one to normally be flown, and to me that means with big guns, and if that means fitting current ones cos something changed in the last 20 years then fine. I think it would be unnecessarily complicated to include upgrade cards to increase the primary attack, but meh, maybe. You could be forced to choose between a title that ups the primary weapon and one that adds a rearward facing cannon slot, that could be interesting.

FFG decides what models to make, and they don't base that off of the tiny minority that posts in this forum. For upgrade cards and balance issues, sure they might listen here and elsewhere, but for what actual ships to release I doubt they go scouring the forums for ideas.

I would be very surprised if they did an ARC, there is a reason they have never made an N1, or a republic gunship, or anything else that appeared in the prequels. We can argue all over that tech hasn't improved between Clone Wars and Civil War, but the films made a huge point of showing different technology, and made it patently obvious that these older ships were the base lines for newer ships (V-Wing -> TIE, ARC -> X-wing). People in general will complain that Clone Wars era doesn't make sense because it is out of date, it doesn't matter if it actually is out of date because common perception prevails over truth.

Plus there is too much negativity toward the prequels, regardless of the fact that there are many people who love them there are also many others who hated them. There isn't really anybody who hated the OT (and who in any reasonable situation would play X-wing). The EU is also generally well regarded (pre-Vong at least), so using material from there is acceptable.

I'm not saying they shouldn't or they should, I am just saying putting your hopes into making a petition thread for why ARCs should be in X-wing isn't terribly wise. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I dunno, I'm in two minds about that (how much influence people talking around here has). We presumably represent some of their more hardcore purchasers, it would make sense to pay some heed to what people here are clamouring for. Of course, I suspect a lot of us here will buy whatever they make, but then again I'd buy 100pts worth of ARC-170s while I'm only buying one Scyk. Who knows? I certainly wouldn't be surprised if next wave we see an ARC-170 for Rebels and an Assault Gunboat for the Empire.

Also, enough with this "the guns are old and will be less effective than modern ones" line. Even if we accept that the technology has moved on significantly in that time*, fine, so newer versions of the ARC will have newer guns. Non-issue.

??? I don't see how you could argue that. ..the ARC wasn't like the Z-95 where it stuck around after it was obsolete (or at least to the same extent). There aren't any newer ARC's for when the game takes place, just clone wars relics.

Guns are machines and wear out over time.

Not to say you don't have a point with upgrades and refits, but I think that should be reflected in upgrade cards, not base values.

It was according to Star Wars Galaxies, apparently. Even without that source, just not being in any current source doesn't mean it didn't happen, in Universe. I think the base model should reflect how you'd expect one to normally be flown, and to me that means with big guns, and if that means fitting current ones cos something changed in the last 20 years then fine. I think it would be unnecessarily complicated to include upgrade cards to increase the primary attack, but meh, maybe. You could be forced to choose between a title that ups the primary weapon and one that adds a rearward facing cannon slot, that could be interesting.

Interesting....guess I really missed the boat on Galaxies.

I like your idea for the primary/cannon idea. The way I would see it, since the ship is being "brought back from the dead" and can't be brought back to "stock" specifications.

Rebel Engineers would have needed to make decisions about how best to retrofit the ship. Kinda like what they did to the y-wing, but I would like to see the ship have more of a multi-purpose role.

Not like the xwing where it's decent at everything, but so it can be customized to fit specific roles.

I played it for a while, you didn't miss much.

I think if any prequel ships are ever released, they'll be released for a parallel system that is not called the " X-WING Miniatures Game", but rather "The Clone Wars Miniatures Game" or sth. like that. I wouldn't want any prequel ship in X-Wing (except the N1, god I love that ship and I need it. NEED IT.).

But what has been mentioned earlier is certainly true for such a system: There's a gazillion Republic designs (two different Jedi Starfighters, ARC, V-Wing, Y-Wing, N1, Republic shuttle etc.) and only 4-5 Separatist ones:

Genosian starfighter

Grievous' starfighter

Vulture Droid (aka "Droid Starfighter")

Hyena Droid (aka "Droid Bomber")

Tri-Droid Starfighter

Plus the droids have no personality (maybe different "control ship" cards?). In any case, looking at the current animated show "Rebels" and the upcoming sequel trilogy, we're more likely to see TIE carrying Gozanti carriers and sequel ships, as a new generation of kids is brought back to the style of the OT and parts of its EU. A lot cheaper to bring the prequel/clone wars crowd in line with an existing game through new and currently running TV show and new movies, than to produce new ships for an older series.

I played it for a while, you didn't miss much.

Looking back I found JTL to be charming and if i could run a galaxies server with all the JTL stuff including atmospheric flight. I totally would.

I don't care one bit about aesthetics of the ships. I care about interesting game mechanics. If the ARC can add a cool mechanic to the game, I say add it.

Personally, I really like the look of the ARC and much prefer the art style of the prequels (the battles in I - III were simply better, IMO) but I do realize that I am in the minority with that opinion.

EDIT: Said "sequels" instead of "prequels"

I don't care one bit about aesthetics of the ships. I care about interesting game mechanics. If the ARC can add a cool mechanic to the game, I say add it.

Personally, I really like the look of the ARC and much prefer the art style of the sequels (the battles in I - III were simply better, IMO) but I do realize that I am in the minority with that opinion.

The intro to EP3 was breathtaking. My issue has never been with the battles and ships of the prequels, just poor writing and the bling N1s.

Oh yeah, and Jar Jar. OBVIOUSLY.

I never really saw what the big deal with the intro to Revenge of the Sith is. Seemed more like a game than a battle to me, no feeling of jeopardy.

I never really saw what the big deal with the intro to Revenge of the Sith is. Seemed more like a game than a battle to me, no feeling of jeopardy.

Me neither. A continuous shot has no real merit if you are doing it with a CG shot... And there is no sense of danger because Anakin and Obi Wan act bored about the battle and everyone else are disposable droids or disposable clones.

And indeed, the main problem with the Clone Wars version of the game is the lack of Droid pilots. You can add names like "DFS-4CT" or "DFS-1VR" but its not that exciting. The only thing you could do is something related with swarms and hive minds, making it a faction with hardly any unique pilots but lots of upgrades that make them work as one. It could be a nice twist to the faction, but it would need lots of good ideas to make it fun.

An Armada version of the Clone Wars would be much better since is a war where individuals are less relevant and the battles were larger.

Exactly. The prequels in a nutshell really, I suppose.

I dunno, even if they made it fun I just don't think there'd be enough cool stuff to suck people in for a dedicated prequels game. Personally I'm a big fan of all the fancy Naboo shuttles (all the shiney, chrome, Flight of the Navigator style ones), but they're not fighting ships. At all.

So I think if there are worthwhile ships in the prequel X-Wing's the only place for them. FFG could always invent an updated ARC-170, to pacify people with fluff concerns. Call it an ARC-172, or ARC-170d or something. Not necessarily a refit, just the current version. I know people think they should have been replaced by the X-Wing but I don't see why they can't keep both lines in production, they are very different after all.

but alot of us dont like the prequel designs and would highly resent having to buy those ships to get upgrades.

Really? That's the argument you think will convince people? Me and a nebulous "alot" of others don't like them, so they shouldn't get made? That's... ridiculous.

I have to say, since I sell custom 3D printed ships for the game I am in a good position to say if people would buy which ships. Its not perfect since the stats of the ship or the cards included are more relevant than the ship itself, but for the sake of argument.

People do not care for prequel ships. There are a few exceptions like the Jedi Interceptor, the ARC-170 and the clone Y-Wing (used as a proxy for the Y-Wing). Its amazing how many obscure Civil War ships are more popular than ships that appear in the movies. The YV 929 is more popular than the Naboo Fighter and nobody cares for Separatist Ships. Even the Knights of the Old Republic ships are more popular than the prequel ships. Its quite baffling.

In large part, that probably had more to do worth you're specific audience niche than the general feeling of the market as a whole. The kind of person who will buy unpainted, unofficial and somewhat expensive ships for a miniatures game which prides itself on a low barrier of entry is probably either a hardcore miniatures gamer or a hard core Star Wars geek, and in both cases probably has enough disposable income that they're at least Uni age or older. In that cohort, you're likely to be dominated by people who grew up with the OT and the EU. In the population at large, however, the number of people who grew up with the prequels, and who feel far less vehemently against them, is pretty large, and they're starting to hit peak purchasing age for products like this.

I said it a few pages ago, and boring in this thread has changed my opinion - FFG will release prequel ships, because there will be a market for them. It will happen.

Yeah but they were all done under lfl who refuse to accept the disdain the public holds for the prequels, we are now firmly into the Disney era and they do recognize the fact and have pulled away from that part of star wars.

Ships from those abominations should never appear in x-wing, make a separate game maybe but they don't belong in civil war era games, headhunters and y-wings were around long before the prequels so no they arnt a back door that allows the rest in.

Not that I know even one person who wants to fly droid fighters.

Well, you know one, now. I would buy heavily into both sides. How about that?

but alot of us dont like the prequel designs and would highly resent having to buy those ships to get upgrades.

That's one reason I'm advocating for it being a separate-but-compatible game. Everybody wins: the people that enjoy Republic-era Star Wars get what they want, and people like you have nothing to keep bellyaching about.

Mel, I concur with the above: I think in the context of an official game the situation would be different. I have no reason to fly N-1 right now, but if there was a separate-but-compatible game, I would buy at least 8 of them, probably more.

The disdain the public hold for the prequels?

You realise that the Phantom Menace made over $1 billion at the box office right? They may not be great movies or worthy successors to the original trilogy but the public does not have a disdain for the prequels.

..... seriously?

Star Wars fans love Star Wars. They go to see Star Wars movies. Nobody knew what they were in for when episode 1 came out. Then we heard episode 2 was better. Ditto for episode 3. The movies were guaranteed to perform, just like episode 7 is virtually guaranteed to do well, whether or not it is actually a good movie.

Public disdain for the prequels is all over this thread. No, not everyone disliked the prequels, but I think it's a fantasy to think that there isn't a very large group of SW fans who have "disdain" for the prequels. I'd say I was sure of it, but I don't have a poll at hand to confirm.

He didn't say Star Wars fan's disdain for the prequels did he? No he said public disdain. You cannot argue with the numbers, you don't make $1 billion from one time visits to the movies. You make that from people going to see it again, and telling their friends to see it, that's how movies rack up huge box office results.

$1 billion at the box office proves the general public, ie not star wars fans dedicated enough to be arguing about the stats of the ARC 170 on a forum about plastic toy ships, liked it enough to see it multiple times and/or recommend their friends to see it. Just because die hard star wars fans disliked them, and I am including myself in this category, doesn't mean everyone disliked them. All up the prequels made more than Titanic at the box office, about $2.3 billion, if the general public had such a disdain for them THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THAT MUCH MONEY. That's how economics works.

I don't see how separate-but-equal would be anything but a failure for FFG. And yes, I did use that phrase deliberately.

There are a lot of fans of the various prequel ships out there. There are a lot of fans of the later EU ships as well (Chiss Clawcraft fighters, various MandalMotors ships, etc.). There are already precedents for prequel-era ships still being used by one or another of the factions in the Civil War period, so that argument is pretty much void. The only meaningful question, then, is whether a particular ship offers something truly new to X-wing, or at least to the faction the ship is being added for.

Given the time frame of X-wing, I don't think it'd make sense for the Imperials to run ARCs. The Rebels could get away with it, in the same way that they do Z-95s and BTLs. As a bonus, the ARC has potential to add mechanics that the Rebels currently don't have access too (an auxiliary arc, for one), while also offering a few interesting bits of design space (potential astromech and crew combos, for instance). Plus, they fit with the Rebel aesthetic, far more than they do the Imperial one.

As for Scum, I'm not sure it makes much sense for them to run ARCs. Sure, they may have picked a few up as military surplus or whatever, but by and large I doubt that the manpower-intensive ARC-170 fits with the Scum identity as selfish and independent.

I had a look at Stay on Target ( http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/productdetails.cfm?SKU=SWA25 ) in the FLGS today, and that ship on the cover, the one that looks like a less good looking ARC-170 (without the foils, for a start) apparently entered service at the same time as the ARC and I think it said it's still a pretty good ships. Could somebody who's got the book look it up and check?

It would be significant, as it would tell us just how good technology from that era is considered in FFG land, in Civil War times.

I think thats a PTB-625, but its pretty similar.

I think thats a PTB-625, but its pretty similar.

That sounds very familiar! Have you got Stay on Target? I'm sure it said that a) it was introduced alongside it's sister ship, the ARC-170, and b) it was still a very good ship. Is that right, someone?

Arise Thread, I am necroing you, you are not dead yet!

So looking for star wars toys for my kids (honest) I came upon the Deluxe ARC170 from 2009. I really want one.

Look it up. It's a grey ARC170 with imperial logos. It's sexy as hell and totally imperial, set in the years after the clone wars ended.

Also, it's Shadow squadron (I led a Shadow squadron in galaxies, and also way back when in the mid 90s for TIE Fighter and XVT).

Anyway, Grey ARC170 for Imperials? FFG - shut up and keep taking my money.

Thing is, back when the Empire had them they didn't have rebels.

Thing is, back when the Empire had them they didn't have rebels.

Tarkin book is five years after clone wars and there are both rebels and arc 170`s in that story.

My fault for being misleading by forgetting to capitalise Rebels. There are Separatist holdouts and a few people rebelling. The Rebel Alliance isn't a thing.