The wikki is clearly written by a fan boy, the fact he sites them as elite for both factions speaks volumes.

They appear in one scene and from what I remember get slaughtered pretty easily they are hardly the wonder fighter some people are making them out to be.

The wikki is clearly written by a fan boy, the fact he sites them as elite for both factions speaks volumes.

They appear in one scene and from what I remember get slaughtered pretty easily they are hardly the wonder fighter some people are making them out to be.

I explained the elites part as a star wars galaxies reference that frankly can be ignored.

They are by no means a wonder fighter, but they are reminiscent of the JU87 Stuka. Note the huge wing cannons and rear gunner. They are multi person multi role craft, good for aggressive recon which means just that.

also they are sexy as hell.

Here's what i'd give them

Attack 3 But yes, you know what, possibly 2. wide wings, only 2 of them

Evade 2

Hull 4

Shield 1

Either no crew, and can always fire out of both arcs(same turn) or

1 crew slot.

1 Astromech OR Salvaged astromech slot OR Imperial astromech slot.

Rear gunner: ARC 170 only. May use rear arc, my fire rear arc as primary as well as front arc in same combat phase.

Dial would be comparable to an X or Y. Hard turns would probably be red. Straights up till 3 would be green. banks of 1 and 3 would be white, bank 2 maybe green. straight 4 and 5 would be red. K turn at 3.

Actions... Target lock, focus.

Maybe a proton or missile slot.

at a stretch maybe a system slot, but really - crew system and astro might be a wee overpowered don't you think?

This is a ship i'd allow to all factions.

Its got very powerful guns.

For its time, sure.

Star wars tech doesn't move that fast. Slave 1 was flying around during the clone wars yet I don't see anyone calling for it to have 2AD (its even got only two cannons)

Nope it's got four guns two on either side so 3 attack is just right.

Nah mate, the ones up high are where the cannon slot is, the 3 attack comes from just those two down below

Or you could go with the rear arc is actually a cannon upgrade, which is the idea I like the most because it makes the ship more interesting. But that comes with even more special rules. You will have to have the rear arc printed on the pilot card so it can be used for checking arc. You will have to have rules indicating the rear arc CANNOT be used unless a cannon upgrade is included. You will have to have that somehow indicated on the ship card itself, yes it is a rear arc but it's not a primary weapon arc. You will have to have rules to indicate that a cannon upgrade fitted to the ship can only fire from the rear arc. While FFG aren't above adding in rules with a ship, that's a lot of rules that need to be added in and somehow clearly indicated on the playing field.

You dont need that if you use the Title above. The ship would be a normal ship with 2 attack dice and just a normal arc. Then you get this title, which is pretty much an autoinclude, and you can shoot backwards with the cannon.

Thats what FFG does with Titles, they are autoinclude upgrades that give the ship a weird rule that they clouldnt describe anywhere else.

There is one title that would be considered an auto-include. All the others are very optional.

Since most of them add an upgrade icon and they do it for free, obviously if you are not going to use that upgrade is optional. If you dont want to put an Elite Upgrade on your A-Wing there is no need for the "A-Wing Test Pilot", but its pretty much a given card.

Just like the IG-2000 title, the Advanced X1 or the Royal Guard TIE. They are free and you pretty much count on them as being already included in the ship. And the only reason titles like Andrasta or Slave I are not autoincluded is because they are unique and you have to choose between one of them.

In this case, if you dont want to add a cannon to the ARC-170, there is no reason to include the Title.

Just to put together a lot of ideas that have been kicked around:

Attack: 2 (with rear arc)

Agility: 2

Hull: 4

Shields: 2

Systems, Torpedoes, Astromech, Crew

Y-wing dial, maybe fewer reds

18 points for PS2?

Systems make sense because of it's Recon role, 2 Attack isn't terrible, it's still a military grade attack rating, and Torpedoes give you an additional option if you need more firepower. The combination of Sensors, Astromech, and Crew means you could do all kinds of stuff with it, but there wouldn't be much of a chance of it being overpowered because of the 2 attack.

Right, so I misread the suggested upgrade card as adding a rear firing arc to the ship and adding a cannon upgrade slot that was limited to that arc, not as adding a cannon upgrade that was restricted to the already existing rear firing arc. Based on my initial understanding I thought the ship didn't have a printed rear fire arc, it instead gained one through the upgrade. Checking the arc for those edge cases without the printed guides would be diabolical.

I'm still not entirely sold on the idea of two attack in the rear arc, probably because it looks odd that the rear cannon has as much fire power as the forward lasers. I also think that FFG prefer to scale guns down rather than up based on the numbers so far, that is you're more likely to get less attacks than guns fitted (down to a certain point). However I'll not argue the point; a single primary attack value for both arcs works best for gameplay and rules clarity. It also means that if you don't spring for a rear mounted cannon, the rear arc is still a threat.

@Biophysical are you thinking of dropping red from all the maneuvers except the K-turn? That would put the ship just under par of the Headhunter and X-wing which is not too bad. You wouldn't have as much ability to shed stress, but you won't lose much maneuvarbility to stress either.

The wikki is clearly written by a fan boy, the fact he sites them as elite for both factions speaks volumes.

They appear in one scene and from what I remember get slaughtered pretty easily they are hardly the wonder fighter some people are making them out to be.

Indeed, in Revenge of the Sith the squadron accompanying Anakin and Obi-wan are there to draw fire away from the Jedi. They do this by fighting overwhelming odds and dying. Hence Obi-wan's comment "They are doing their job so we can do ours".

The wikki is clearly written by a fan boy, the fact he sites them as elite for both factions speaks volumes.

They appear in one scene and from what I remember get slaughtered pretty easily they are hardly the wonder fighter some people are making them out to be.

Indeed, in Revenge of the Sith the squadron accompanying Anakin and Obi-wan are there to draw fire away from the Jedi. They do this by fighting overwhelming odds and dying. Hence Obi-wan's comment "They are doing their job so we can do ours".

In the game, I think they have a niche as jousting ships, with red hard turns, lots of hull, 3 attack and a rear arc. Good against swarms perhaps but bad against agile lone wolves. Maybe 2 attack can work too, and a title: "Ship gains the [cannon] upgrade slot. Secondary weapons can only be fired from the front arc."

Oddball: Once per round, when a ship in your firing arc attacks another ship, that ship may perform a free evade action immediately before attack dice are rolled.

Multiple people have informed you they are only medium lasers not heavies, and the tie fighters are better because they have a superior rotation in their mounts allowing a greater field of fire.

It's a scout ship it says so in the name and you don't heavily arm scouts, you give them strong sensors and a hyperdrive with a good range.

It's not a scout ship, it's a heavy fighter. They were just really, really derpy with the name.

How much do you see AT-STs actually scouting? Or ARC troopers?

Nobody's going to sell me on the two attack die idea. We've all been burned before by a tanky, expensive ship with two attack, never again! Heavy fighters need three attack. I could /maybe/ be persuaded if we're allowing both arcs to shoot in one turn, but even then two attacks that are unlikely to really hurt anything but a Decimator (and you're hardly likely to have a shot on one of those from both arcs) kinda throws away their usefulness.

Regarding the rear arc - I know the guns aren't as big looking (although that rarely seems to matter in Star Wars land - compare the turret on a Y-Wing with the primary weapon on a HWK for example, and there are worse examples (YT-2400 cannon vs Firespray?)), but there are two of them in the pictures I've seen, top and bottom.

The main reason I think the cannon upgrade would be best on the back though is because it would be something totally different. That said, if we're allowing attacks from both arcs in one turn then we've already got something different...

Heh, if we keep this thread on the front page long enough think FFG will get pissed off and give us the ship just to shut us up?

The Imperial HUGE Ships took 98 pages to get FFG to announce the Raider.

It is very unlikely that prequel ships are an interesting investment given the way the Star Wars franchise is currently developing. There is little that can be done about that.

Nobody's going to sell me on the two attack die idea. We've all been burned before by a tanky, expensive ship with two attack, never again! Heavy fighters need three attack. I could /maybe/ be persuaded if we're allowing both arcs to shoot in one turn, but even then two attacks that are unlikely to really hurt anything but a Decimator (and you're hardly likely to have a shot on one of those from both arcs) kinda throws away their usefulness.

Regarding the rear arc - I know the guns aren't as big looking (although that rarely seems to matter in Star Wars land - compare the turret on a Y-Wing with the primary weapon on a HWK for example, and there are worse examples (YT-2400 cannon vs Firespray?)), but there are two of them in the pictures I've seen, top and bottom.

The main reason I think the cannon upgrade would be best on the back though is because it would be something totally different. That said, if we're allowing attacks from both arcs in one turn then we've already got something different...

Heh, if we keep this thread on the front page long enough think FFG will get pissed off and give us the ship just to shut us up?

I'm not sure why it has to be expensive. In the time scale of this game it would be old, even if refitted with new gear. I was thinking more like a y-wing.

Like a Z95 crossed with a Y-wing.

4 hull 1 maybe 2 shields.

Anything that looks like a hard turn is red.

I've changed my mind regarding weapons.

2 attack front back.

Title upgrade to make it retrofitted with modern weapons for 3 attack.

1 crew.

As for may shoot both directions in a turn. changed my mind about that because of the BTL-S3.

S3 can't then why should ARC?

It would have to be expensive because it has a rear arc, astromech slot, possibly crew slot, possibly cannon slot, possibly system slot.

Well, if you had an ARC 170 in a large base, with:
PS: 3

2 (with forward and rear arc),2,4,3

Focus, Target Lock

Astromech, Crew, Torpedo, System

With a dial similar to an X-Wing

It would be 25 Squad Points.

The same thing with attack 3 with forward and rear arc would be 30 Squad Points.

Well, if you had an ARC 170 in a large base, with:

PS: 3

2 (with forward and rear arc),2,4,3

Focus, Target Lock

Astromech, Crew, Torpedo, System

With a dial similar to an X-Wing

It would be 25 Squad Points.

The same thing with attack 3 with forward and rear arc would be 30 Squad Points.

Based on what?

Indeed, based on what?

But of the two, I'd certainly be more likely to take the three attack ship for 30 than the two attack ship for 25. Imagine a squad of four ships, each of which only shooting with two attack dice (and that's the low PS version). Does it sound like something that would work?

Indeed, based on what?

But of the two, I'd certainly be more likely to take the three attack ship for 30 than the two attack ship for 25. Imagine a squad of four ships, each of which only shooting with two attack dice (and that's the low PS version). Does it sound like something that would work?

Works for miniswarms all the time eight attack is not insignificant.

Indeed, based on what?

But of the two, I'd certainly be more likely to take the three attack ship for 30 than the two attack ship for 25. Imagine a squad of four ships, each of which only shooting with two attack dice (and that's the low PS version). Does it sound like something that would work?

Works for miniswarms all the time eight attack is not insignificant.

It's not as simple as eight attack - it's eight attack vs four sets of green dice (as opposed to nine attack vs three sets of green dice.)

But you have a rear arc so unlike other ships that lose actions pulling a k turn you can just take your time turning without losing a shot not something many other small ship can do.

Three attack with a rear arc on a small base is too strong to come cheaply.

Well, if you had an ARC 170 in a large base, with:

PS: 3

2 (with forward and rear arc),2,4,3

Focus, Target Lock

Astromech, Crew, Torpedo, System

With a dial similar to an X-Wing

It would be 25 Squad Points.

The same thing with attack 3 with forward and rear arc would be 30 Squad Points.

Based on what?

My formula:

www.albertomelchorruizanton.net/mel_miniatures/Point_Squad_Formula.xlsx

It has proven to be pretty accurate even if its done just by randomly tossing numbers around. Except for the Z-95 and the HWK, everything else has proven to be pretty spot on.

Yeah, I get that you'd get more shots, but if hardly any of them get through. I dunno, if you gave it two attack you'd have to make it tough enough to survive long enough to do some damage.

I don't think it should be cheap anyway, I picture it being like a bigger, tougher, more expensive (hence being less common these days), slower X-Wing, with a rear arc.

I confess I'm biased because a) it looks cool, and b) we've been arguing about it since forever ago, and you know how feelings get engrained as debates go on!

Well, if you had an ARC 170 in a large base, with:

PS: 3

2 (with forward and rear arc),2,4,3

Focus, Target Lock

Astromech, Crew, Torpedo, System

With a dial similar to an X-Wing

It would be 25 Squad Points.

The same thing with attack 3 with forward and rear arc would be 30 Squad Points.

Based on what?

My formula:

www.albertomelchorruizanton.net/mel_miniatures/Point_Squad_Formula.xlsx

It has proven to be pretty accurate even if its done just by randomly tossing numbers around. Except for the Z-95 and the HWK, everything else has proven to be pretty spot on.

Would I be right in thinking the rear arc is the hardest thing to put a value on?