Flew a few missions in X-wing Alliance last night. (Many Bothans died but it wasn't my fault) After flying a Y-wing and then an X-wing in consecutive missions, I was struck by how powerful the X-wing feels as a dog-fighter and it made me sad again for the X-wing in this game. I think a lot of people agree that the X-wing in miniatures is just missing a certain something.

Does the X-wing need a fix?

No, probably not. Looking at the list juggler, X-wings show up fairly regularly and make a fair showing when they do. (Biggs might be throwing off the averages a bit though) I don't believe the X-wing is anywhere near as bad as the Tie Advanced is currently or the A-wing before refit.

But...

I'm not sure I feel like I'm flying an X-wing when I put one on the table.

What makes the X-wing special?

The A-wing is just crazy fast but lacks offensive punch. XWM seems to have nailed the feel of the A-wing. The Y-wing is a tank. Good luck keeping an interceptor in your sights but can deal some decent damage to a capital ship and walk away. With the new title and some turret choices, I think the Y-wing is pretty well represented in our tabletop game. The B-wing in XWM is probably too good compared to the old computer games. But it should be able to take and deal more damage than the X-wing so I guess it works.

So where does that leave our poor X-wing? Jack-of-all-trades and master of none? Destined to see decreased table-time in its own game? I would argue that what the X-wing did better than any other rebel ship was chase down and pulverize mobile targets. Nothing could chew through ties like an X-wing. The X-wing had enough speed and maneuverability to keep up and the four wing-tip lasers were just murder. They never seemed to run low on power even without max recharge and the constant shower of red lasers just decimated small and fragile fighters.

What does this mean for XWM?

Probably nothing. But, like a lot of folks, I would love to see some sort of "Rogue Group" title for the X-wing. A discounted modification would be the easiest game-wise but I would hate to just give Biggs a cheaper defensive boost without changing the X-wing's role.

TLDR. How to make the X-wing feel more like an X-wing?

Increase the X-wing's offensive capabilities but only against ships with three or more agility. Not sure what is the best way to do so and Wedge complicates matters but maybe just maybe:

Rogue Squadron (Title) (X-wing Only) When attacking a target with agility of 3 or more, decrease defenders agility by one.

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

I'm not conviced making an x-wing more interceptor-like is the way to go.

Rogue squadron was always a squadron not individuals. I think Sharing abilities like ig-88 would be better.

Also i know this partially contradicts point b that they're not individuals. But they're not generic either.

In term of game balance. I think they nailed big the a wing and the y wing with their fixes. I don't think the x is that bad. I think the b-wing is too cheap. It was never that common of a ship and for the cost in game way better than a rookie

Flew a few missions in X-wing Alliance last night. (Many Bothans died but it wasn't my fault) After flying a Y-wing and then an X-wing in consecutive missions, I was struck by how powerful the X-wing feels as a dog-fighter and it made me sad again for the X-wing in this game. I think a lot of people agree that the X-wing in miniatures is just missing a certain something.

Does the X-wing need a fix?

No, probably not. Looking at the list juggler, X-wings show up fairly regularly and make a fair showing when they do. (Biggs might be throwing off the averages a bit though) I don't believe the X-wing is anywhere near as bad as the Tie Advanced is currently or the A-wing before refit.

But...

I'm not sure I feel like I'm flying an X-wing when I put one on the table.

What makes the X-wing special?

The A-wing is just crazy fast but lacks offensive punch. XWM seems to have nailed the feel of the A-wing. The Y-wing is a tank. Good luck keeping an interceptor in your sights but can deal some decent damage to a capital ship and walk away. With the new title and some turret choices, I think the Y-wing is pretty well represented in our tabletop game. The B-wing in XWM is probably too good compared to the old computer games. But it should be able to take and deal more damage than the X-wing so I guess it works.

So where does that leave our poor X-wing? Jack-of-all-trades and master of none? Destined to see decreased table-time in its own game? I would argue that what the X-wing did better than any other rebel ship was chase down and pulverize mobile targets. Nothing could chew through ties like an X-wing. The X-wing had enough speed and maneuverability to keep up and the four wing-tip lasers were just murder. They never seemed to run low on power even without max recharge and the constant shower of red lasers just decimated small and fragile fighters.

What does this mean for XWM?

Probably nothing. But, like a lot of folks, I would love to see some sort of "Rogue Group" title for the X-wing. A discounted modification would be the easiest game-wise but I would hate to just give Biggs a cheaper defensive boost without changing the X-wing's role.

TLDR. How to make the X-wing feel more like an X-wing?

Increase the X-wing's offensive capabilities but only against ships with three or more agility. Not sure what is the best way to do so and Wedge complicates matters but maybe just maybe:

Rogue Squadron (Title) (X-wing Only) When attacking a target with agility of 3 or more, decrease defenders agility by one.

So everyone becomes wedge? No no no no no no. Unless it was a 5-6 point title, it would be OP. Wedge shreds Ties. Giving a lowly Rookie that ability would be nuts.

The named pilots are all fairly good on the X-wing. The only only ones that are suspect are Porkins and Garven (needs an EPT). The generics need some help though. They aren't all that great because the 22 point Blue squadron exists. They need a title that allows them to take a generic astromech for 0 points or a named astromech for a -1 point cost. A Rookie with a stressbot for 22 points would put it more on par with the Blue Squadron.

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

I'm not conviced making an x-wing more interceptor-like is the way to go.

Rogue squadron was always a squadron not individuals. I think Sharing abilities like ig-88 would be better.

Also i know this partially contradicts point b that they're not individuals. But they're not generic either.

Can't Imagine letting pilots share abilities. Biggs alone makes that unworkable but I like the idea of somehow buffing them based on working as a team. Maybe something that triggers based on being within range 1 of another rogue squadron member.

In term of game balance. I think they nailed big the a wing and the y wing with their fixes. I don't think the x is that bad. I think the b-wing is too cheap. It was never that common of a ship and for the cost in game way better than a rookie

I agree completely but I don't see FF nerfing the B-wing...

edit- spelling

Rogue Squadron (Title) (X-wing Only) When attacking a target with agility of 3 or more, decrease defenders agility by one.

Pair that up with Outmaneuver or Wedge and you now have Ties with 1 defense die...

The idea giving the X-Wing some sort of reposition seems like a good idea, but going that route seems to put us in a place where every ship must have one, because being able to barrel roll or boost is just a standard thing every ship can do.

I agree the feel is wrong, but I'm not sure how to get that feel into this game. Maybe if we let them spend focus tokens defensively without removing the token? That would give them real offensive punch similar to a B-wing without making their movement significantly different.

It is true that they really nailed it with some others. Defenders, interceptors and B's are near-perfect.

I mentioned this in a different thread but wanted to get the numbers.

The issue IMO with the X-Wing isn't that it's something is wrong with it, just that it's missing something that nearly every other ship in the game has. It's in a way, like a normal person in a city filled with superheroes. That normal person may not have anything wrong with him, but compared to everyone else, he's missing something.

Of the 21 ships (as of Wave 6) 3 lack a reposition mechanic or an expanded fire arc.

13 Ships have either a boost or barrel roll action.

5 have an expanded fire arc, either a turret, a turret slot, or in the case of the Firespray a 2nd arc.

The X-Wing, the Z-95 and Lambda shuttle are the only ships without something. The Z-95 is cheap filler and the Lambda is actually fairly cheap for what you get. Twice the HP's, same attack, one less defense as an X-Wing but for the same price for a PS2 generic.

It honestly is that FFG has become boost/barrel roll happy, and have slapped it on pretty much every ship that's come out since wave 1, other than the Z-95 and Shuttle. Every ship in the last 3 waves have had something, either a boost/barrel roll or a turret, and in the case of the YT-2400 both.

Consider a B-Wing without a barrel roll action, would anyone consider it a poor choice compared to the X-Wing?

I don't know if giving the X a boost or barrel roll is the answer, but I think the lack of either is why people tend to consider the X-Wing to have issues.

Maybe a title that helps them hit harder against high agility targets. Something like Rogue Squadron X-Wing: Generic Title, 2 points, enemy ships can not spend focus or evade tokens when defending against this ship's attack, can only be used by pilot skill 3 or greater.

This would help finish off wounded TIEs that would prefer to evade and stay alive, and it would also help to reduce the falcon's power. Against a Rogue X-wing, only your luck can save you. Abilities that add evade results, such as 3PO or Autothruster, can still be used, but other dice mods common to evasive ships go away. A squad of 4 Rogue Squadron Red's would be terrifying to face, rather than a hit-by-numbers easy game for both swarms and falcons. Squads with large amounts of hit points that don't rely on defensive dice (B-wings, Biggs, Decimators, Shuttles) would still be potent.

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

I'm not conviced making an x-wing more interceptor-like is the way to go.

Rogue squadron was always a squadron not individuals. I think Sharing abilities like ig-88 would be better.

Also i know this partially contradicts point b that they're not individuals. But they're not generic either.

Can't Imagine letting pilots share abilities. Biggs alone makes that unworkable but I like the idea of somehow buffing them based on working as a team. Maybe something that triggers based on being within range 1 of another rogue squadron member.

In term of game balance. I think they nailed big the a wing and the y wing with their fixes. I don't think the x is that bad. I think the b-wing is too cheap. It was never that common of a ship and for the cost in game way better than a rookie

I agree completely but I don't see FF nerfing the B-wing...

edit- spelling

I picture it as something like this, buffing the generics

"Rogue leader"

X-wing only title- unique

0 points

Any ships with the "rougue squadron" title can use the pilot ability of this ship in addition to their own. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is five or lower.

"Rogue squadron"

Xwing only title

0 points

Ships with this title can use the pilot ability of the "rogue leader" in addition to their own.

Actually I really like the shared ability suggestion. I don't think Biggs would actually benefit from it, it would let your opponent target any x wing they want. Both ideas seem fun though without overly disrupting the x wings role

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

I'm not conviced making an x-wing more interceptor-like is the way to go.

Rogue squadron was always a squadron not individuals. I think Sharing abilities like ig-88 would be better.

Also i know this partially contradicts point b that they're not individuals. But they're not generic either.

Can't Imagine letting pilots share abilities. Biggs alone makes that unworkable but I like the idea of somehow buffing them based on working as a team. Maybe something that triggers based on being within range 1 of another rogue squadron member.

In term of game balance. I think they nailed big the a wing and the y wing with their fixes. I don't think the x is that bad. I think the b-wing is too cheap. It was never that common of a ship and for the cost in game way better than a rookie

I agree completely but I don't see FF nerfing the B-wing...

edit- spelling

I agree that complete ability sharing would be op. A squadron of biggs? Oof.

I picture it as something like this, buffing the generics

"Rogue leader"

X-wing only title- unique

0 points

Any ships with the "rougue squadron" title can use the pilot ability of this ship in addition to their own. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is five or lower.

"Rogue squadron"

Xwing only title

0 points

Ships with this title can use the pilot ability of the "rogue leader" in addition to their own.

So basicly, Everyone would be Wedge? No no no, even as a Wedge Fanboy I can see this being OP

Regarding the idea of it being a superiority fighter discussed in the OP, you could give it a mild gunner type ability.

Stutter fire: If you miss with a primary weapon attack, immediately make another primary weapon attack with one less die.

What about something along the lines of:

Title: Rogue Squadron Pilot

Targets with agility 3 or higher do not gain a bonus defense die at range 3

Cost: 3

I see it being similar to Outmaneuver, so I priced it as such. This also clearly defines that Tie fighters/interceptors/advanced/defenders are going to be your target of choice.

I agree that the x-wing as it is lack a reason to take it over other options. The B-wing is usually a better option for firepower, and the Z-95 is a better filler. Any upgrade, however, can't make the named x-wings too powerful.

Here a few ideas that have been bouncing around in my brain. Feel free to critique any of the ideas

Rogue Squadron Pilot

Title

X-wing only

1 point

Your action bar gains the barrel roll action

Quad-linked laser cannons

Modification

X-wing only

3 points

Increase your attack value by 1

Spotter

Title/Modification

X-wing only

0 points

Friendly ships can acquire target locks on ships within range 1-3 of this ship

Recon Package

Modification/torpedo

X-wing only

0 points

Your upgrade bar gains a system upgrade icon

I thinks the x-wing needs more utility, and these are some options to give it that.

The thing that bothers me slightly is the the fact that they can only carry one torpedo, where clearly in the lore of the ships, they are loaded with at least 4 on each side of the ship to be able to fire duel linked at a target, the reason x-wings were so succussful is they could take on multi role missions, including that of a captial ship killer, and no, this isnt just in reference to the attack on the death star.

In every game that features x-wings, in a proper environment (Not battlefront series, or RTS ones) the x-wing takes out the shield generator balls on top, then does a torpedo run on the vessel's main bridge.

Or even further, the use of torpedos over all just on the main shield // hull of ships to do massive damage. Sure, they can be used also against fighters, but usually they try to save a few (hench more then one) just in case they need to burn there way out on the escape vector if a captial ship shows up and this is all been brought in the novels

What Im saying is the B-Wing in this game feels more multi role based then the x-wing is supposed to, and i think that's why some people dont like it.

Why change anything? X-wings are still better at chasing down fast ships when compared to the B-wing. I just don't get why people don't like X-wings anymore.

I agree that the x-wing as it is lack a reason to take it over other options. The B-wing is usually a better option for firepower, and the Z-95 is a better filler. Any upgrade, however, can't make the named x-wings too powerful.

Here a few ideas that have been bouncing around in my brain. Feel free to critique any of the ideas

Rogue Squadron Pilot

Title

X-wing only

1 point

Your action bar gains the barrel roll action

Quad-linked laser cannons

Modification

X-wing only

3 points

Increase your attack value by 1

Spotter

Title/Modification

X-wing only

0 points

Friendly ships can acquire target locks on ships within range 1-3 of this ship

Recon Package

Modification/torpedo

X-wing only

0 points

Your upgrade bar gains a system upgrade icon

I thinks the x-wing needs more utility, and these are some options to give it that.

A lot of these I think would cause more problems than they'd help, but the laser cannon upgrade had me thinking.

What if instead you could spend your target lock to roll one additional die? It'd be a unique action available to the X-wing.

Personally I don't think the X-wing needs a "Fix". I play them all the time, they are still my favorite ship, and they just do fine. Having said that, I would not be opposed if they gave the X-wing a boon of some kind in the near future. Some kind of title or perhaps just new pilots and astromechs.

Why change anything? X-wings are still better at chasing down fast ships when compared to the B-wing. I just don't get why people don't like X-wings anymore.

To be fair, I don't think it's people not liking the X-wing. It really just boils down to them not having their role in the game right now. Speaking purely for generic pilots, I don't ever seem to have a reason to take an X-wing over a B-wing unless I can't fit in Advanced Sensors with it.

I just don't get why people don't like X-wings anymore.

Because since the B-Wing they've been considered a point or two too much for what you get. Especially compared to the B-Wing.

Personally I don't think the X-wing needs a "Fix".

It's less that they need a fix because they're broken, more that they need a small buff to stay competitive, especially in the current meta.

I play them all the time, they are still my favorite ship, and they just do fine.

A lot of that depends on your local meta though, how competitive it is, and what everyone else is flying. A 4 X, or even BBBXX has troubles with a Decimator & Phantom or Han/Dash & Corran. It can win but does require more work.

Title that enables barrel roll for a point or two would do it.

I dislike the idea of having a "rogue squadron pilot" card. It works for the Imperials as they are faceless masses by default. The X-wing is great because of it's vast quantities of named pilots. It needs more of them.

I'm not conviced making an x-wing more interceptor-like is the way to go.

Rogue squadron was always a squadron not individuals. I think Sharing abilities like ig-88 would be better.

Also i know this partially contradicts point b that they're not individuals. But they're not generic either.

Can't Imagine letting pilots share abilities. Biggs alone makes that unworkable but I like the idea of somehow buffing them based on working as a team. Maybe something that triggers based on being within range 1 of another rogue squadron member.

In term of game balance. I think they nailed big the a wing and the y wing with their fixes. I don't think the x is that bad. I think the b-wing is too cheap. It was never that common of a ship and for the cost in game way better than a rookie

I agree completely but I don't see FF nerfing the B-wing...

edit- spelling

I agree that complete ability sharing would be op. A squadron of biggs? Oof.

I picture it as something like this, buffing the generics

"Rogue leader"

X-wing only title- unique

0 points

Any ships with the "rougue squadron" title can use the pilot ability of this ship in addition to their own. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is five or lower.

"Rogue squadron"

Xwing only title

0 points

Ships with this title can use the pilot ability of the "rogue leader" in addition to their own.

So basicly, Everyone would be Wedge? No no no, even as a Wedge Fanboy I can see this being OP

Well, to be fair, once Wedge is dead, the ability for everyone goes away. But I agree that this seems... OP. Though if you wanted to go a similar route, you could have a title along the lines of "Group Leader A" and "Wingmate A" and "Group Leader B" and "Wingmate B"... All unique, with the same wording. Now Wedge can share his ability with his wingmate, and his wingmate alone... but Luke can share his ability with HIS wingmate. I'd also restrict it to R2. If you're flying off by yourself, you can't be aided by your wingman. This would make hunting in loose pairs a thing, different from the tight formations we saw during W1-3 that so many cards have been created to destroy (assault missiles, ion torps, ruthlessness, mara jade, dead man switch, etc), but still provide a new "coordinated" strike flying between two X wing pilots.

But personally, I actually really liked the idea I talked about in the Blue Die thread. Give the X wing a title that allows it to attack with the more accurate blue dice. It would still have a maximum of 3 <booms> rolled, but if the die had 2 <kaboom>, 4 <boom> 1 <focus> 1 <blank> - You'd be much more accurate without actions, and with a single action, you'd pretty much be guaranteed 3 <booms>.

It gives the X wing an unique feel - what other ship doesn't need it's actions to consistently do damage? It frees up the EPT, Mod, and Astro slots for action upgrades so you can take your jack of all trades base X wing, and upgrade it to fit your specific play style - like to boost, add an EU, like to BR - add EH... Want to regen - add R5-D8! Heck, Expose would even be viable like this... you'd add 6/8 of a hit at the cost of 3/8, so you'd for sure be doing more damage.

Furthermore, it's a "fix" that's unique. They've given the TIE/in two mod slots so you can basically make it a defender with a better dial... they've reduced the cost of the A wing, and allowed it two EPTs so it can do crazy stuff no one else can... They added a title to the Y wing to allow it to attack twice... They added a slot to the Y wing and TIE/x1 to make it more versatile... they essentially reduced the cost of the TIE/x1... But now they'd be addressing the accuracy of the X wing, making each shot deadly accurate, well, it naturally is just as accurate as taking a focus action, and with a focus, it becomes as accurate as a TL+F attack... So the "fix" is to give the X wing basically a free focus action on attack. Something new, something creative, something unique, and it matches the X wing description in that they're great at blowing up those agile TIE fighters (since the TIEs now basically have to rely on their green dice luck to stay alive).

The X-Wing's need for a "nudge" rather than an out and out TIE/Adv style fix has already been confirmed by the game's designers (look for the Team Covenant video interview), so let's not pretend they aren't aware that it's lagging. As the titular, iconic, and flagship craft of the game, it needs to be generally useful. Offensively, it's fine and there are plenty of good pilot abilities in there, so that's also good. It's hampered by durability somewhat (2 AGI on 5 HP is mediocre at best) and also by limited mobility, which has become a larger issue with the Phantom, rise of the turrets, and pending return of the Interceptor, TIE/Adv, StarViper arrival, and so on. It has issues getting its solid firepower to bear, so the nudge IMO should be mobility-based. Flat-out giving it boost or barrel roll isn't really iconic, but perhaps offering limited versions of them could be. For example, a title that gives Barrel Roll, but partners it with stress (a weaker version of Expert Handling that leaves your EPT open), or something similar with Boost, a Daredevil-esque hard 1 without the damage (could even be an optional trigger during maneuver phase, such as: "When you do a 1-Bank, you may turn it to a 1-Turn maneuver and gain 1 stress token"), something gives it a chance to be slightly more mobile and not just be turreted/arc dodged all day. Otherwise, the X-Wing is just fine. The tweak needs to be MINOR.

Maybe a title that helps them hit harder against high agility targets. Something like Rogue Squadron X-Wing: Generic Title, 2 points, enemy ships can not spend focus or evade tokens when defending against this ship's attack, can only be used by pilot skill 3 or greater.

This would help finish off wounded TIEs that would prefer to evade and stay alive, and it would also help to reduce the falcon's power. Against a Rogue X-wing, only your luck can save you. Abilities that add evade results, such as 3PO or Autothruster, can still be used, but other dice mods common to evasive ships go away. A squad of 4 Rogue Squadron Red's would be terrifying to face, rather than a hit-by-numbers easy game for both swarms and falcons. Squads with large amounts of hit points that don't rely on defensive dice (B-wings, Biggs, Decimators, Shuttles) would still be potent.

This might be my favorite idea so far. Easy to implement. Has some precedent with other pilots.

Regarding the idea of it being a superiority fighter discussed in the OP, you could give it a mild gunner type ability.

Stutter fire: If you miss with a primary weapon attack, immediately make another primary weapon attack with one less die.

Considered this idea as well. Seems like it would be too powerful but I love the feel. I guess it would depend on the cost of the upgrade.