I didn't post this in the squad list subforums because I'd like more than a couple answers and because this relates to strategy overall rather than just what ships to fly.

I like 3-5 ship builds, and I can usually make a pretty respectable showing of myself against nearly any list. In my local area, the meta is all over the place. Lots of phantoms but beyond that nobody flies the net listed Corran and dash or decimator phantoms. I've only seen those builds recently, on vassal.

And the absolutely shred me. I can't catch dash when I'm against rendar and horn, I can't catch whisper when I'm against decimator phantom, and in both occasions, the other ship in those two lists just floats around range three and picks me apart.

I've tried stress mechanics, I've tried multiple swarm ships to block and pile damage on the zero agility.

If I play well against one of these, I'm lucky to down one ship and maybe get a scratch through the other, but I've never come close to winning.

Any tips? I refuse to join them, I find the hyper mobile turret lists boring yo play, there's gotta be a way to do this properly.

4 B's and a Z will do it. The more you play against them the better you'll do.

4 B's and a Z will do it. The more you play against them the better you'll do.

If your playing Bs it's better with Advanced Sensors, IMO.

Block the turreted ship and focus all guns on it.

I feel your pain. I'm list brewing right now trying to get out from under the Decimator-Phantom rock myself with my Super dash and X's list that I came up with back in the previews like so many others.. Currently trying to muss around with getting marksmanship onto Dash some how efficiently. I have the build worked out I think but have serious doubts. Honestly I have no clue how some of these things are supposedto be beat with current product. Which worries me for power creep reasons.

Horton Salm with R2D6+VI+Ion Turret. This gives you a PS10 Ion turret to hit decloaked phantoms before they shoot/cloak and to stop Corran in his tracks...especially the PTL Horn who now cant shed stress.

As for cloaked Phantoms...PTL Keyan B-Wing with Autoblaster. All focus to hits that can't be cancelled. IF you can get into R-1 (which Salm's PS10 Ion can help with.

4 B's and a Z will do it. The more you play against them the better you'll do.

If your playing Bs it's better with Advanced Sensors, IMO.

You'd trade the Z for four Sensors and a Dagger upgrade?

Horton Salm with R2D6+VI+Ion Turret. This gives you a PS10 Ion turret to hit decloaked phantoms before they shoot/cloak and to stop Corran in his tracks...especially the PTL Horn who now cant shed stress.

PTL Horn typically has an R2, making the ion move green.

4 B's and a Z will do it. The more you play against them the better you'll do.

If your playing Bs it's better with Advanced Sensors, IMO.

You'd trade the Z for four Sensors and a Dagger upgrade?

I've seen it posted everywhere that Advanced Sensors make the B-Wings better. With all the stress on their dial, and the abililty to barrel roll before movement if needed, their mobility and surviveability is greatly improved.

what advanced sensors does for Bs is allow them to also target lock before your K turn!! so you don't lose that action. also comes in handy for dodging asteroids!! 4 BlueBs with advanced sensors is one of my favorite builds!! you wont find many lists with more firepower!! 4 generic Phantoms is the ONLY one i can think of off the top of my head.. which btw I think i will try at my next casual game night..lol hmm would make for an interesting match 4 bluebs vs 4 phantoms!

If you like Phantom hunting and want a list with some staying power this works pretty well.

i can vouch for Horton!!

I think your issue might be unfamiliarity flying against these lists rather than flying the wrong lists against them.

My recommendation if you want to find the weakness of any list the best way to do this is fly it yourself. This works particularly well with 360 degree firing ships, since figuring out how to play them optimally takes less practice that other lists. Phantoms on the other hand can be a bear to fly against and a bear to fly. The require a lot of skill to use effectively. That is actually their biggest weakness.

Horton Salm can't take an EPT, correct? Am I missing how to get Veteran Instincts on him?

Other than fighting fire with fire, the most successful list I have used against the two-ship meta is the swarm. 8 TIEs or 8 Zs (I like the Zs better for this): you have ships to block up the big ship and still have plenty of attacks left to focus it down. Decimators, in particular, can go down quickly against an 8 ship list. The trick with the swarm, in my opinion, is pinning down the little ship once the large one is dead.

There is no list that will consistently beat the two-ship meta right now. If there was, loads of people would be running it already! I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing: the meta shifts every time new stuff is released, and will shift again once the Scum are released.

Abilities such as Wes Jenson or R7 Astromech have an overall far larger effect on two ship builds because you neuter roughly half of their damage output by targeting a single ship

Horton Salm can't take an EPT, correct? Am I missing how to get Veteran Instincts on him?

Astromech droid R2-D6 gives the equipped ship an EPT if it didn't already have one. 1pt I think

There is a astromech droid that will let you take a EPT if you don't already have one.

Horton Salm can't take an EPT, correct? Am I missing how to get Veteran Instincts on him?

Horton Salm can't take an EPT, correct? Am I missing how to get Veteran Instincts on him?

Horton Salm with R2D6+VI+Ion Turret. This gives you a PS10 Ion turret to hit decloaked phantoms before they shoot/cloak and to stop Corran in his tracks...especially the PTL Horn who now cant shed stress.

PTL Horn typically has an R2, making the ion move green.

It does mean he doesn't have r2d2 which is a bonus.

Also I watched a 4b + z list take second at a store championship recently, it definitely works. I think the idea of the headhunter over advanced sensors or FCS daggers is that even a 2 die attack can force a bad roll, or spending a focus token, allowing the bwings to do their thing.

I have found this list to be decently effective against 2 ship builds:

Keyan with AS, HLC, and Stay on target (41)

blue squadron pilot (22)

3 bandits (36)

Comes in at 99 points so you can make sure super dash have initiative (for the benefits of this I give you Osoroshii's post in this forum):

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/133319-asteroid-placement-as-dash/#entry1424967

The list dies to phantoms but it usually can beat anything else dominating the meta currently. Block and swarm with the 4 ships and use keyan as a long range sniper. Even if dash overshoots him he can rotate his 2 move to a k turn so he can consistently fire at dash.

Control list can be effective gainst 2-ship build. Y-wing or HWK with ion cannon turret very unpleasant for Horn with PtL and R2-D2.

Horton Salm with R2D6+VI+Ion Turret. This gives you a PS10 Ion turret to hit decloaked phantoms before they shoot/cloak and to stop Corran in his tracks...especially the PTL Horn who now cant shed stress.

PTL Horn typically has an R2, making the ion move green.

I think it was cleared in the FAQs that R2 (and Nien Nunb) cannot compensate for the white ion movement

Horton Salm with R2D6+VI+Ion Turret. This gives you a PS10 Ion turret to hit decloaked phantoms before they shoot/cloak and to stop Corran in his tracks...especially the PTL Horn who now cant shed stress.

PTL Horn typically has an R2, making the ion move green.

I think it was cleared in the FAQs that R2 (and Nien Nunb) cannot compensate for the white ion movement

They can indeed. But there are R2-D2 with Corran Horn usually.

Check the newest FAQ. It now makes the ion move green.