This is my first post! So of course its a question to the community at large.

This question may tread on dangerous territory, but I sincerely insist this isn't a "let's kill Darth Vader" question:

I've been in a long running EotE game, that has allowed players to use material from AoR and recently the new FD beta material. Long play sessions, bi-weekly 8-10 hour sessions. Not the most productive sessions, but we usually get about 30 xp per session. So far so good.

My question here is one of scope: i've got a character with a total of 750 xp, including the character building 120 xp from being a human with some obligation. What is this like in other games? I've been adhereing to a "role-play over roll-play" ideology, so i'm not a pure combat, skill, or Force user: i just when with what felt natural.

With 750 XP, i've got 4 talent trees (none "maxed"), well rounded skills, Force Rating 2, closing in on 3, and some beefed up Force powers. Am I "high level"? What would this be like compared to movie characters?

Honestly I can't answer as my group has capped at 2 players and only the beginner box with a couple one off games.

However, I am very curious what your character is!

we can't really say where that isin comparison to the movie characters, but yeah that's a pretty good level. and we'll earned. good job

However, I am very curious what your character is!

Started Explorer-Fringer, at char.gen I bought Force Emergent from AoR for style, since I was going for a Luke/Corran Horn type. Mostly focused on the Force Emergent, then bought into Recruit to reflect training with a Holocron and a mercenary in the party, as F+D Beta hadn't released yet. After plugging away at those and with Force Powers, F+D Beta hit and was eventually allowed by GM. Now sitting pretty about half-way down Niman Disciple, mostly complete Force Emergent, some of the Fringer tree, and about a quarter of the Recruit tree. That's ignoring the odd skill buys, and I've focused on the Enchance and Sense Powers with a modest Move ability. I just recently bought into Influence, but only to enhance the social skill rolls, rather than mindrape people.

My GM lurks in these forums, so he'll probably catch this at some point.

My Wookiee Marauder/Heavy/Doctor/Force-Sensitive Exile has earned about 470 XP on top of the 100 XP he started with, and he can rip your head off with his bare hands, he can chop your head off with his heavily modified pair of vibro-axes that he uses in Two Weapon Combat style, he can blast your head off with the Sorosuub OK-98 carbines he carries, or he can stun you out in one shot using the Doctor/Pressure Point talent and he has even combined that with Two Weapon Combat to do enough stun damage to taken down a Rancor or a Lylek in one round.

IMO, my Wookiee is not as far advanced as Chewbacca, but I’ve been gaining pretty rapidly. And in some ways, I think I might even be a little better than Chewbacca.

Speaking only for myself, I’d say your character is probably roughly equivalent to Luke Skywalker when he went off to help rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt in “Return of the Jedi”.

​So, I’d say that I think you’ve done well for yourself, and in particular you’ve done a good job of staying true to your concept and helping to create a well-rounded character, and not just the most powerful badass that you can build.

Congratulations and welcome to the forums!

This character sounds way too overpowered. And also sounds like he is a hodgepodge garbled mess with no direction. Overall, this a very stoopid idea to do this to a character, and can not be very effective. I even highly doubt that you could beat a Geonosian Queen in combat, let alone get through it by using social skills. Sounds like your GM is a tard, and has no real grasp on the game. I bet if you use dark side force pips, you don't even feel the dire effects of the pull and power of the dark side and have cool dark side illusions that really punish your character.

Lurk?, Lurk, I do a lot more than lurk here.

IMO, my Wookiee is not as far advanced as Chewbacca, but I’ve been gaining pretty rapidly. And in some ways, I think I might even be a little better than Chewbacca.

Speaking only for myself, I’d say your character is probably roughly equivalent to Luke Skywalker when he went off to help rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt in “Return of the Jedi”.

​So, I’d say that I think you’ve done well for yourself, and in particular you’ve done a good job of staying true to your concept and helping to create a well-rounded character, and not just the most powerful badass that you can build.

Congratulations and welcome to the forums!

Thank you for the welcome. I think your response opens up some of what is making me curious:

I can see how comparing PC's to movie characters is hard when they have plot-armor and only so many minutes of screen-time. Its especially tricky when you have characters with similar "careers/specializations" like Lando, Han, and Dash Rendar, who you could mince details over quite a bit.

I'll use the current 5e D&D as an example, since they give an alright account of what levels correspond to in narrative (I do understand that there are no 'levels' in EotE, AoR, F+D): PC's are funamentally better than equivalent NPC characters, and Level 1-5 are your local-city heroes, 5-10 Kingdom or country heroes, 11-16 your multi-regional/possibly world heroes, and level 17-20 level cap is when you're world heroes and probably leaving to other planes to fight things.

To use bradknowles example of my character being the equivalent of Luke Skywalker in ROTJ, there are probably those who would argue for lower or higher power comparisons. Some might think 750 xp is Anakin in AotC, or Yoda in RotS, depending on a variety of logic and reasoning.

My curiosity comes from wondering where my GM is going next with his campagin, and how to accurately approach situations with confidence. I don't want to "think" I'm Luke Skywalker walking into Jabba's Palace, with all the certainty, in character, that one way or another he's going to rescue Han Solo, when in reality he's Luke Skywalker on Bespin, getting toyed with and bested by Vader (or other analogies along those lines).

I'll add that my group fluctuates in behavior, but for a while we often were overly-cautious. It got so bad with a few players overanalyzing every decision that the GM would get so frustrated that he'd flat out say the enemy's XP level so that they could approach the encounter with some confidence.

Lurk?, Lurk, I do a lot more than lurk here.

I knew you'd turn up eventually. hahaha!

My curiosity comes from wondering where my GM is going next with his campagin, and how to accurately approach situations with confidence. I don't want to "think" I'm Luke Skywalker walking into Jabba's Palace, with all the certainty, in character, that one way or another he's going to rescue Han Solo, when in reality he's Luke Skywalker on Bespin, getting toyed with and bested by Vader (or other analogies along those lines).

To be honest, I’m not convinced that the Luke character really was that confident, but he did feel that he needed to project that level of confidence. I’ve done that before in games, and I’ve done that before in real life.

So long as you keep asking yourself the question of how good are you really, and you think hard about the situations you’re about to get yourself into, you are likely to do fine.

But don’t get cocky, kid!

My Wookiee Marauder/Heavy/Doctor/Force-Sensitive Exile has earned about 470 XP on top of the 100 XP he started with, and he can rip your head off with his bare hands, he can chop your head off with his heavily modified pair of vibro-axes that he uses in Two Weapon Combat style, he can blast your head off with the Sorosuub OK-98 carbines he carries, or he can stun you out in one shot using the Doctor/Pressure Point talent and he has even combined that with Two Weapon Combat to do enough stun damage to taken down a Rancor or a Lylek in one round.

IMO, my Wookiee is not as far advanced as Chewbacca, but I’ve been gaining pretty rapidly. And in some ways, I think I might even be a little better than Chewbacca.

Speaking only for myself, I’d say your character is probably roughly equivalent to Luke Skywalker when he went off to help rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt in “Return of the Jedi”.

​So, I’d say that I think you’ve done well for yourself, and in particular you’ve done a good job of staying true to your concept and helping to create a well-rounded character, and not just the most powerful badass that you can build.

Congratulations and welcome to the forums!

quick note but vibro axes can't be dual wielded by a Wookie, they're two handed if I recall. The Hutt crime lord no. Specifically notes they can but that seems to be the only exception

I did say a “modified pair of vibro-axes”, right? Well, in this case, the modification as to give them telescopic shafts which allow them to be wielded one-handed.

You are correct, this is not RAW. But it works for the character concept and my GM was fine with it.

To be honest, my Wookiee is the tank of that group, and is the one who’s supposed to be up-front doing melee with the enemy, and attracting everyone’s attention. Meanwhile, the Klatooinian Heavy in the back is using his LRB, grenade launchers, flechette launchers, plasma cannons, and what ever other Gunnery-scale weapons he’s got, and he’s doing way, way more damage than my Wookiee.

And the most damage ever done to my Wookiee was from his Klatooninan friend, when he fired into a group of minions where my Wookiee was in Engaged range, and he got a Despair on his roll. Yes, he activated auto-fire and several of the auto-fire blasts wiped out all the other minions, but he also shot my Wookiee in the back. And Chewnawa has never let him forget it.

quick note but vibro axes can't be dual wielded by a Wookie, they're two handed if I recall. The Hutt crime lord no. Specifically notes they can but that seems to be the only exception

I did say a “modified pair of vibro-axes”, right? Well, in this case, the modification as to give them telescopic shafts which allow them to be wielded one-handed.You are correct, this is not RAW. But it works for the character concept and my GM was fine with it.To be honest, my Wookiee is the tank of that group, and is the one who’s supposed to be up-front doing melee with the enemy, and attracting everyone’s attention. Meanwhile, the Klatooinian Heavy in the back is using his LRB, grenade launchers, flechette launchers, plasma cannons, and what ever other Gunnery-scale weapons he’s got, and he’s doing way, way more damage than my Wookiee.And the most damage ever done to my Wookiee was from his Klatooninan friend, when he fired into a group of minions where my Wookiee was in Engaged range, and he got a Despair on his roll. Yes, he activated auto-fire and several of the auto-fire blasts wiped out all the other minions, but he also shot my Wookiee in the back. And Chewnawa has never let him forget it.

ah well no way I could have known about a houseruled mod, I figured attachments like superior and the like. I personally wouldn't allow it because a single vibro axe is deadly enough as is, it's like letting someone dual weird miniguns, just sounds excessive but if your group doesn't mind that's fine.

It’s not like I get auto-fire with them, or multiple levels of Linked, or anything. At best, I get two successful hits, no more. Yes, each hit can do a fair amount of damage, but even if we’re comparing just one of my hits to just one hit from an LRB, the Klatooinian in the back does more damage than I do. And he gets auto-fire, whereas I don’t.

People really shouldn’t be worrying about melee weapons getting out of hand, if they’re allowed to be used in Two Weapon Combat. No melee monster is ever going to approach the level of damage that can be done by someone with an appropriately large blaster weapon with auto-fire.

If nothing else, the melee monster always has to physically move from one target to the next, in order to attack them. The guy with the ranged weapon just changes his aim point a bit, but doesn’t really have to move much at all.

And that’s before we get to the concept of using ship-mounted weapons on personal-scale type targets. You could be throwing handfuls of Thermal Detonators every round and still not do anywhere remotely close to as much damage as happens when the pilot decides to pull the YT-2400 into the mix and it’s firing the ventral turret-mounted Dual Medium Laser Cannons — base 70 damage against personal scale targets, per single laser cannon, and that’s before he adds all of his successes that he’s going to get on that roll with five yellow dice and all those blues?

ah well no way I could have known about a houseruled mod, I figured attachments like superior and the like. I personally wouldn't allow it because a single vibro axe is deadly enough as is, it's like letting someone dual weird miniguns, just sounds excessive but if your group doesn't mind that's fine.

It’s not like I get auto-fire with them, or multiple levels of Linked, or anything. At best, I get two successful hits, no more. Yes, each hit can do a fair amount of damage, but even if we’re comparing just one of my hits to just one hit from an LRB, the Klatooinian in the back does more damage than I do. And he gets auto-fire, whereas I don’t.People really shouldn’t be worrying about melee weapons getting out of hand, if they’re allowed to be used in Two Weapon Combat. No melee monster is ever going to approach the level of damage that can be done by someone with an appropriately large blaster weapon with auto-fire.If nothing else, the melee monster always has to physically move from one target to the next, in order to attack them. The guy with the ranged weapon just changes his aim point a bit, but doesn’t really have to move much at all.And that’s before we get to the concept of using ship-mounted weapons on personal-scale type targets. You could be throwing handfuls of Thermal Detonators every round and still not do anywhere remotely close to as much damage as happens when the pilot decides to pull the YT-2400 into the mix and it’s firing the ventral turret-mounted Dual Medium Laser Cannons — base 70 damage against personal scale targets, per single laser cannon, and that’s before he adds all of his successes that he’s going to get on that roll with five yellow dice and all those blues?

As for ship weapons of course those are going to be stronger but your going to have them in far far far fewer situations if your gm is even remotely competent about setting the scenario.

However what would make me most opposed to allowing it would simply be how it would utterly destroy the incentive to take a one handed weapon as the two handlers are all more powerful do to the draw back of using two hands.

See, this is why i wish i could play in a Star Wars game. I'd love to start a character and let him grow organically, see where his adventure takes him, instead of planning out 20 levels of progression because thst's all he'll ever have.

Always the GM, never the pc...

See, this is why i wish i could play in a Star Wars game. I'd love to start a character and let him grow organically, see where his adventure takes him, instead of planning out 20 levels of progression because thst's all he'll ever have.

Always the GM, never the pc...

I've got an opening in my upcoming campaign. Can you make it to Detroit on Sunday evenings?

melee weapons aren't about the damage, it's about the Crits. Getting two hits with a vibro axe is insanely powerful if you manage to crit with both instead of just tacking on +10 to a single crit.

Check the stats on the vibro-sword, which most certainly can be used one-handed:

Damage: +2

Critical: 2

Encumbrance: 3

HP: 3

Price: 750

Rarity: 5

Special: Pierce 2, Vicious 1, Defensive 1

Now, let’s compare that to the vibro-axe:

Damage: +3

Critical: 2

Encumbrance: 4

HP: 3

Price: 750

Rarity: 5

Special: Pierce 2, Sunder, Vicious 3

The vibro-sword does +2 damage and not +3, and it’s only Vicious 1 instead of Vicious 3. But it’s defensive 1, which the vibro-axe is not. The vibro-sword also doesn’t need to have one of the hard points taken up by the Telescoping Shaft modification that my GM and I came up with, so you can have both Balanced Hilt and Monomolecular edge on there, and if you Tinker it then you can also add Serrated Edge. So, it is more accurate and less encumbrance, and more defensive. In trade, it does a little less damage and is slightly less Vicious.

There is no math on this planet that you can pull out of your wazoo that will prove that the vibro-sword is just fine and dandy when used in Two Weapon Combat in this manner, whereas the vibro-axe is just way too excessively deadly. I’m sorry, that math just doesn’t exist, and no amount of your wanting it to be so will cause it to spontaneously come into being.

Either way, you’re still just fighting one opponent at a time, whereas the guy in the back with all the Gunnery-related skills and the heavy weaponry is killing way more targets every time he pulls the trigger.

Sure your ranged weapon guy is going to get the enemy incapacitated quicker but the melee guy is far more likely to just cut him in half without ever needing to drop him to 0.

Have you actually looked at the crit tables? Have you actually run a Marauder long-term that is super heavy on the melee combat, with Brawn 5 and Brawl 5? Have you done that in a party with a Hired Gun/Heavy who was likewise equally heavily talented and skilled in his career, and carrying around the heavy weapons to make it all happen?

As for ship weapons of course those are going to be stronger but your going to have them in far far far fewer situations if your gm is even remotely competent about setting the scenario.

The best laid plans of men and mice, as they say.

If your players are smart and cunning, they can gang up on the GM in ways that no one could ever possibly have anticipated — until it’s too late.

If Chopper can do it, then we can certainly do it.

However what would make me most opposed to allowing it would simply be how it would utterly destroy the incentive to take a one handed weapon as the two handlers are all more powerful do to the draw back of using two hands.

Try actually using such an attachment and then do a Monte Carlo simulation of the results. Once you’re done with those simulations, feel free to come back and tell me that all my experience of actually running this combination was completely and totally invalid.

When you can’t take the better attachments and modifications because you’ve had to spend your precious hard points getting the Telescopic Shaft instead so that you could use a two-handed weapon in a one-handed manner, you will sing a different tune. If you totally want to “shaft” the players in this regard, then feel free to drop the damage down and reduce the Vicious rating of the vibro-axe when used in this manner, so that it actually is a perfect match for the vibro-sword. But if you’re going to shaft them like that, do make sure that you don’t give them back the Defensive 1 bonus that the vibro-sword has, because that just wouldn’t be fair.

I do it the way I do because it makes sense from the perspective of playing the character. With regards to game mechanics, I would probably actually be better off not being so flashy and doing something more crunchy instead.

However, I am fortunate that I have a reasonable and intelligent GM and he is all for role-playing interesting characters and seeing where that goes. YMMV.

Pardon but Ive run a lasting game since launch that up until a month ago had a Wookie weilding a vibro axe so please don't be so conceded as to assume I have no clue what I'm talking about. A +20 on the crit chart difference is massive, that's the equivalent of the foe having 2 extra Crits already on them. Yes I think it's overpowered compared to dial weilding vibroswords. If your gm and their players are fine with it at your table that's good for you, I'd still never allow dual weilding 2 handers at my table as Ive seen what it being wielded single handedly can do.

Pardon but Ive run a lasting game since launch that up until a month ago had a Wookie weilding a vibro axe so please don't be so conceded as to assume I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I will concede the point that you have demonstrated that you don’t appear to know what you’re talking about.

A +20 on the crit chart difference is massive, that's the equivalent of the foe having 2 extra Crits already on them.

Or two ranks of a talent that lets you increase your critical rating on a chosen weapon.

Yeah, that’s totally overpowered. No way that can be allowed to exist in the game.

Yes I think it's overpowered compared to dial weilding vibroswords.

That’s funny, because earlier in this thread I think someone said something along the lines of “… those are going to be stronger but your going to have them in far far far fewer situations if your gm is even remotely competent about setting the scenario.”

Seems to me that statement is just as applicable here, if not more so.

If your gm and their players are fine with it at your table that's good for you, I'd still never allow dual weilding 2 handers at my table as Ive seen what it being wielded single handedly can do.

Your table, your rules.

All your comments tell me is that you’ve never seen a properly equipped and played Hired Gun/Heavy with a Heavy Repeating Blaster, Missile Tube, or other suitable heavy weaponry.

Or you’ve never seen a player doing Two Weapon Combat properly, but using a pair of vibro-swords instead of vibro-axes.

Or how creatively players can be to find ways to get ship-mounted weapons into combat against ground troops, perhaps by firing on buildings that the targets are inside.

Or maybe you don’t know the difference between Two Weapon Combat and dual-wielding.

Except I do, the guy that replaced our Wookie is playing a Trandoshian marauder dual weilding vibroswords and we got another player 3 months before him playing a heavy klatooinain. Guns indeed have the potientally to far more damage but as far as Crits go melee is optimal and on top of that rp wise I'd have onlookers a lot more suspicious of a guy brining in heavy gunnery weaponry over a pair of swords or an axe, given this is me as a gm and how I try to make sense of the world our group plays in as a sword or axe isn't going to mow down a room of people in a short time from ranged. So aside from that drawback your ranged weapons can always run out of ammo, hit allies, etc. Theres plenty of drawbacks to bring them in line and give incentive for melee, given the largest is the to drawback I at least as a gm have placed in my world (as aformentioned in terms of legality to carry in the open).

(Note the rest of my members are a sluissi mech, jawa outlawtech, roidian force exile, and occasionally a human smuggler shows up but he's missed the last few and soon we'll be getting a droid gadgeteer and all of these have taken multiple specs of course given the duration of the game).

As for lethal blows yes it is very powerful, even more so when you then combine it with dual weilding vicuous 3 instead of viscous 1.

As for getting ship weapons in yes there are occasions you can, but there are a ton more you just can't at all or can't without massive reprocusolns. If your group is in a tight corridor running out to go get your ship isn't feesable (let alone wise if you have group members in there unless you just don't care about them turning into greesy stains in the rubble that would remain. Prison scenarios, bar fights, etc. Of course there are always insane over the top ways a player can just fly their ship up and blast a building... Assuming there's 0 security on the planet ready to shoot you down if you just start blasting part of the city apart with your ship or you don't care about bounty obligation heaping onto the party for the laws broken and mass collateral damage. Point being there are enough drawbacks situational and otherwise that merit giving enough value to stick to normal less heavy weaponry. Note I'm not saying the heavier weaponry doesn't have its place, it does, it's just not able to be used as freely without more drawbacks and repercussions than less heavy weaponry would in similar situations.