I have a question about the 4 ship fortress. How does the ship in the middle (the blocker one for the others) get out of the fortress. Will 2 sharp or 1 bank be enough to get him out with going off the board?

Or is there something i am missing?

Edit:
Oh nevermind i got how he is positioned.

Here's a list specifically made for fortressing:

Blue Squadron Pilot (32) x 2 B-Wing (22), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Jan Ors (35) HWK-290 (25), Swarm Tactics (2), Chewbacca (4), Shield Upgrade (4)

No blind spots, anything that comes into range is gonna eat 5 Focus modified attack dice at PS 8. Also impossible to deny the B-Wings shots by bumping into them because of Jan being in the way.

But, yeah, I don't think a pure fortress list is viable, I think it's a tool for jousting lists to use against low ship-count builds with Phantoms and Interceptors.

That's actually kind of nasty. Its still pretty vulnerable on the flanks, but I suppose if they came down one of the flanks in mass, you can break out and engage.

I really hope this fortress thing doesn't catch on.

Actually I hope it does, I hope lots of people start wining tournaments, then the designers will do something about this absurd "tactic"

I really hope this fortress thing doesn't catch on.

Actually I hope it does, I hope lots of people start wining tournaments, then the designers will do something about this absurd "tactic"

I really hope this fortress thing doesn't catch on.

Actually I hope it does, I hope lots of people start wining tournaments, then the designers will do something about this absurd "tactic"

Yes, because forcing a fix that willprobably end up breaking other things and warping the meta even worse is better than the current situation where the tactic sucks and virtually never gets used.

Well it would be a problem if somebody tried playing me with this at a tournament, I would just sharp turn and then do K turns up and down the board and after 60 minutes hold my hand out and with a cheerful jaunty air" thank you my good fellow for an exciting game of X wing"

Either that or say "is that George Lucas" and when he turns around crack him across the back the head with my carry case.

Ps carry case is not an euphemism for Gentlemans Sausage

PPS. Gentlemans Sausage is a euphemism for ***** (or a man who plays with fortress builds)

I really hope this fortress thing doesn't catch on.

Actually I hope it does, I hope lots of people start wining tournaments, then the designers will do something about this absurd "tactic"

Yes, because forcing a fix that willprobably end up breaking other things and warping the meta even worse is better than the current situation where the tactic sucks and virtually never gets used.

Iam sure those clever design chaps could create something that would do very little to the game, look at what they did with the Tie Advanced

I'm just going to leave this right here.

You hope that a thing that isn't a problem becomes a problem so the designers can fix the problem that never existed to begin with? Also, haha, at your scare quotes.

If people do what we see above - and at Worlds, no less - then it's a problem. Also haha at your strawman argument and unnecessary punctuation.

OP made a thread about how use the fortress tactic most effectively, not on the ethics of fortressing, go start a different thread instead of trying to derail this one.

Everybody's so quick to complain about the Phantom/Turret meta and bemoan the death of X-Wings, but when this possible counter strategy to the Phantom comes up, nobody wants to talk about it. Fortressing isn't any less ethical than turrets or Phantoms or people guessing 0 with C-3PO, or telling people they're wrong and evil for using a legal move in a game. When your David against Goliath, sometimes you need to bring a sling and a rock instead of a sword and shield.

I personally never play this way because I mostly play untimed practice games at the LGS, and I would rather just bring a hard Phantom counter than be forced to use this tactic, but it's still something that I'd like to have access to in my toolbox as a competitive player, and fits my belief as a strategist that if you know the fight is completely rigged against you, then you should choose not to fight and make the opponent come to you. Always make the opponent fight on your terms, not theirs.

If people do what we see above - and at Worlds, no less - then it's a problem.

Its a problem because one guy, one time out of 32 games, used the tactic and STILL was ONLY able to win because his opponent both did a bad job countering the fortress AND rolled epically badly?

If people do what we see above - and at Worlds, no less - then it's a problem.

Its a problem because one guy, one time out of 32 games, used the tactic and still was only able to win because his opponent both did a bad job countering the fortress AND rolled epically badly?

Yeah, the situation is a bit more complex than "ooh, he won and he used the fortress. Therefore the fortress is a problem". Given the weakness of non-turret fortresses, there was a bit of an issue with his opponent as well. Honestly, it is on par of the two players going up and down their side of the board until the other player makes a move first.

I really hope this fortress thing doesn't catch on.

Actually I hope it does, I hope lots of people start wining tournaments, then the designers will do something about this absurd "tactic"

You hope that a thing that isn't a problem becomes a problem so the designers can fix the problem that never existed to begin with? Also, haha, at your scare quotes.

Right now it's allowed but not very effective, so it doesn't appear much. It does appear sometimes though.

Were it to catch on, it'd be FAQed into oblivion.

The designers didn't leave it in because they liked it, they left it because a rule to remove it'd have other knock-on effects. It'd take a bulldozer to kill the rats so they figured unless it turns into an infestation leave the rats be.

Yep, the guy playing against the fortress actually had the initiative, and if he had just flown in circles in his own corner and let the match go to time, he would have won. I still don't understand why he felt the need to fly towards his opponent and give him a free win, probably an over-inflated sense of honor or something.

Its a problem because one guy, one time out of 32 games, used the tactic and STILL was ONLY able to win because his opponent both did a bad job countering the fortress AND rolled epically badly?

Yes, in the same way it only takes one person to contract ebola in the US for it to potentially become a major national emergency.

Yes, I'm comparing fortressing to ebola. Fortressing is the ebola of X-Wing. You got that?

I still don't understand why he felt the need to fly towards his opponent and give him a free win, probably an over-inflated sense of honor or something.

Because he was bored shitless. just like ANYONE who finds themselves playing against a guy cowering in the corner not moving every turn would be.

So one guy, one time out of 32 games, used a tactic that is so bad he only won on a fluke of the dice and that is going to cause hundreds of people to start using the tactic. Riiiiight, that's not being at all paranoid and illogical.

Bad games happen in tournaments. If you seriously can't handle playing a single match that isn't fun, DON'T play in tournaments.

So one guy, one time out of 32 games, used a tactic that is so bad he only won on a fluke of the dice and that is going to cause hundreds of people to start using the tactic. Riiiiight, that's not being at all paranoid and illogical.

Bad games happen in tournaments. If you seriously can't handle playing a single match that isn't fun, DON'T play in tournaments.

But this isn't simply a topic about tournaments though, is it? It's a topic about using ebola fortress lists in general play.

Fortressing tactics kill fun, kill enjoyment and kill the spirit of the game - FACT. Maybe you like to get your jollies from winding up your opponent or from playing against someone who huddles in the corner every game, in which case, have at it. But don't try and push your disease on the conmunity at large - you know, the ones who enjoy the game and who actually want to have fun.

It's a topic about using ebola fortress lists in general play.

No, it really isnt. In general, casual games you can simply not play them if you don't want to and it's done. Again, a solution that doesn't require FFG to actually do ANYTHING to keep them from becoming a problem. It's only in tournaments that you might have an unwelcome playstyle "pushed on you".

And anyway, it was you who brought up worlds, and the comment that primarily derailed the thread was "I hope this catches on so it will be stopped" can only be referring to tournaments because, as I mentioned, while it's a basically non-existent problem in tournaments because it's so bad, it's even less of a problem outside of tournaments because no body will ever play against one in a casual game.

OP made a thread about how use the fortress tactic most effectively, not on the ethics of fortressing, go start a different thread instead of trying to derail this one.

Everybody's so quick to complain about the Phantom/Turret meta and bemoan the death of X-Wings, but when this possible counter strategy to the Phantom comes up, nobody wants to talk about it. Fortressing isn't any less ethical than turrets or Phantoms or people guessing 0 with C-3PO, or telling people they're wrong and evil for using a legal move in a game. When your David against Goliath, sometimes you need to bring a sling and a rock instead of a sword and shield.

I personally never play this way because I mostly play untimed practice games at the LGS, and I would rather just bring a hard Phantom counter than be forced to use this tactic, but it's still something that I'd like to have access to in my toolbox as a competitive player, and fits my belief as a strategist that if you know the fight is completely rigged against you, then you should choose not to fight and make the opponent come to you. Always make the opponent fight on your terms, not theirs.

We can't compare the "full court press" to "fortressing"; Gladwell was looking at a team making up for its deficiencies through the use of an outdated and inefficient means of defense. But I enjoyed being reminded of the article as Malcolm is a great writer!

So one guy, one time out of 32 games, used a tactic that is so bad he only won on a fluke of the dice and that is going to cause hundreds of people to start using the tactic. Riiiiight, that's not being at all paranoid and illogical.

Bad games happen in tournaments. If you seriously can't handle playing a single match that isn't fun, DON'T play in tournaments.

But this isn't simply a topic about tournaments though, is it? It's a topic about using ebola fortress lists in general play.

Fortressing tactics kill fun, kill enjoyment and kill the spirit of the game - FACT. Maybe you like to get your jollies from winding up your opponent or from playing against someone who huddles in the corner every game, in which case, have at it. But don't try and push your disease on the conmunity at large - you know, the ones who enjoy the game and who actually want to have fun.

Nope, fortressing is only relevant to tournament play. You don't ever have to play against something you don't want to in casual play, it's as easy as picking up your ships and finding another player.

And nice to see that Freedom of Speech is still hated somewhere in the world.

We can't compare the "full court press" to "fortressing"; Gladwell was looking at a team making up for its deficiencies through the use of an outdated and inefficient means of defense. But I enjoyed being reminded of the article as Malcom is a great writer!

Sorry, but that article isn't really about the "full court press", even though it uses it as the central pivot point, it's about using unconventional but legal strategies that disrupt the balance of power between the established playerbase and the underdog. The establish playerbase dislikes that somebody might beat them at their game in a way that they're not used to or don't like, and cry foul and call the the tactic "unsportsmanlike".

Do you not see the similarity between this and the Traveller Trillion Credit Squadron Tournament? Instead of bringing a mix of different ships and trying to outmaneuver his opponents, Doug Lenat just brought an "astronomical number of small ships" and never moved them during any game, and he won 2 tournaments in a row even after they tried to ban his trick, his computer just figured out a new way to exploit the rules, and instead of trying to fix the rules, they ended up banning him, even though he never broke any rules!

I have a Fortress Build for the IMP. The build is really awesome, as the ship's are get every action that they they should. Should I play it a the local tournament.

Concerning the Fortress match at Worlds:
I heard at the time that the guy knew he couldn't outfly his roommate's Phantom list, and the game in which he fortressed was against that roommate.

Now, I'd definitely say that Phantoms are stupidly mobile by default, so for non-turret lists to have a shot against them, the Fortress seems like an actually viable tactic.

I have a Fortress Build for the IMP. The build is really awesome, as the ship's are get every action that they they should. Should I play it a the local tournament.

Sure, and give us a write-up

Concerning the Fortress match at Worlds:

I heard at the time that the guy knew he couldn't outfly his roommate's Phantom list, and the game in which he fortressed was against that roommate.

An agonizingly tedious match for the players, but hardly a "problem" for the game as a whole. I also heard that, really, the bigger problem was that the fortressing player was something of a jerk about the whole thing. I didn't pay as much attention to those parts of the narrative though.

Concerning the Fortress match at Worlds:

I heard at the time that the guy knew he couldn't outfly his roommate's Phantom list, and the game in which he fortressed was against that roommate.

As I recall, it was Biggs, wedge, a rookie and a z-95 fortressing against hugs roommates phantom and tie swarm and he only won because his roommate rolled something like 7 blanks in a row on his evade dice according to the reports at the time, even one evade or focus result would have saved the TIE and denied the fortress player a win.

An agonizingly tedious match for the players, but hardly a "problem" for the game as a whole. I also heard that, really, the bigger problem was that the fortressing player was something of a jerk about the whole thing. I didn't pay as much attention to those parts of the narrative though.

Z-95 was Airen Cracken, so he had an action spread during combat. Useful to note that pilot exists in this thread.

Could theoretically re-create it with Garven instead of Wedge, for 2 spread actions and a few more points to the Rookie.

Concerning the Fortress match at Worlds:

I heard at the time that the guy knew he couldn't outfly his roommate's Phantom list, and the game in which he fortressed was against that roommate.

As I recall, it was Biggs, wedge, a rookie and a z-95 fortressing against hugs roommates phantom and tie swarm and he only won because his roommate rolled something like 7 blanks in a row on his evade dice according to the reports at the time, even one evade or focus result would have saved the TIE and denied the fortress player a win.

An agonizingly tedious match for the players, but hardly a "problem" for the game as a whole. I also heard that, really, the bigger problem was that the fortressing player was something of a jerk about the whole thing. I didn't pay as much attention to those parts of the narrative though.

IIRC, the non-fortress player had initiative, so there's no reason he should have even been rolling dice, he should have just stayed in the opposite corner and payed his 75 minutes of boredom for the free win.

Seriously, it's Worlds, you shouldn't throw away the World Championship title because you're bored.

IIRC, the non-fortress player had initiative, so there's no reason he should have even been rolling dice, he should have just stayed in the opposite corner and payed his 75 minutes of boredom for the free win.

I think it was a case of the fortressing player breaking formation in the final minutes to zip out with the goal of killing a single TIE Fighter just before time was called, winning by 12 points. I think that's what he did, and it worked, but only because the TIE rolled so super badly.