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Guys,

I'm trying to discuss and learn more about the Raider in this thread. Maybe you should start a separate discussion thread on the proper nomenclature of action economy.

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Guys,

I'm trying to discuss and learn more about the Raider in this thread. Maybe you should start a separate discussion thread on the proper nomenclature of action economy.

Also, untwist thine knickers, everybody

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Guys,

I'm trying to discuss and learn more about the Raider in this thread. Maybe you should start a separate discussion thread on the proper nomenclature of action economy.

Incorrect. If you want to discuss the Raider you should be in the Off-Topic section.

jk!

Just think of it like this. Every single Huge Ship Captain - is Tycho.

But stress does affect Tycho, if he selects a red maneuver when stressed it affects him the same as every other ship.

Huge ships on the other hand can never be affected by stress.

But practically... Tycho simply doesn't ever select red manuevers. Same goes for Huge Ships. I've not once ever seen a ship select a red maneuver. See what I did there?

Maybe you should start a separate discussion thread on the proper nomenclature of action economy.

Fine, but only because you have a R2 avatar...

The fact that I'm tired of this debate and clearly am going no where trying to debate what may or may not happen and am getting a headache from it, has nothing to do with that decision.

Maybe you should start a separate discussion thread on the proper nomenclature of action economy.

Fine, but only because you have a R2 avatar...

The fact that I'm tired of this debate and clearly am going no where trying to debate what may or may not happen and am getting a headache from it, has nothing to do with that decision.

R2 FTW

Going back to Yorr, if you for some reason wanted to redirect the stress from a Huge ship to the shuttle, IMO you could not do such a thing. Because again the token itself isn't the issue here, it's the game state.

I don't see why not. The Huge ship rules say a huge ship that receives a stress token discards it. That means they are, in fact, receiving the token. Yorr's ability operates after the trigger that gives a ship a stress but before the ship actually receives the stress. That is why Soontir doesn't work with Yorr, he never receives the stress. If Soontir was somehow given the ability "Whenever you receive a stress token, discard it" Then his pilot ability and the "discard it" effect would both be triggering at the same time and he could choose what order to resolve them. I see no reason why Yorr and a huge ship getting stress would not work the same way.

My two cents:

There is nothing in the rules that says that a Huge ship cannot receive stress tokens. What it says is that they are immediately discarded upon receiving them. See the Huge Ship Rules, Page 2:

Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships. When a huge ship receives any of these tokens, immediately remove them and return them to the token supply.

So, Huge Ships CAN receive and be assigned focus, evade, AND stress tokens. They are simply immediately discarded after they are received.

So, all of these options ARE CURRENTLY 100% legal, even the ones that you do not benefit from.

Fleet Officer on the Raider. It discards the stress.

Kyle Katarn assigning focus to a Huge Ship. Discarded.

Garven Dreis assigning focus to a Huge Ship. Discarded.

A ship with Tactician attacks a Huge Ship. Discarded.

A Huge Ship Jams another Huge Ship. Discarded.

Again, most of these do not benefit you, IE Kyle passing focus, but they are indeed legal in the current rules. There is no good reason that Fleet Officer shouldn't work, because in the rules, the Huge Ship still gets assigned the focus. It is, however, immediately discarded AFTER being assigned to the ship.

All of this is pending a FAQ update, but this is my opinion on the matter.

Umm, for what it's worth I agree with Engine25 above.

Text says give a Stress Token. Huge ship says discard the token.

Cost fulfilled.

Anyway, back on topic. Ion Batteries are nice (especially as they can ionize a Large ship in one hit, so you know exactly where it'll be, so you know where to move to crush it!), I wonder if there will be a 4th Hardpoint released as well?

I'm hoping there is a crew like Vader, except it is something like: 'If there is a friendly ship at range 1 of an enemy ship, then attacks with your primary weapon are made with one extra dice (or the defender gets one fewer green. All friendly ships within range 1 of the target receive 1 damage.'

Anyway, back on topic. Ion Batteries are nice (especially as they can ionize a Large ship in one hit, so you know exactly where it'll be, so you know where to move to crush it!), I wonder if there will be a 4th Hardpoint released as well?

I'm hoping there is a crew like Vader, except it is something like: 'If there is a friendly ship at range 1 of an enemy ship, then attacks with your primary weapon are made with one extra dice (or the defender gets one fewer green. All friendly ships within range 1 of the target receive 1 damage.'

Doesn't deal 2 ion tokens. Its a single ion token and a critical damage. However, you CAN attack with multiple Ion Batteries in the same turn.

Anyway, back on topic. Ion Batteries are nice (especially as they can ionize a Large ship in one hit, so you know exactly where it'll be, so you know where to move to crush it!), I wonder if there will be a 4th Hardpoint released as well?

I'm hoping there is a crew like Vader, except it is something like: 'If there is a friendly ship at range 1 of an enemy ship, then attacks with your primary weapon are made with one extra dice (or the defender gets one fewer green. All friendly ships within range 1 of the target receive 1 damage.'

Doesn't deal 2 ion tokens. Its a single ion token and a critical damage. However, you CAN attack with multiple Ion Batteries in the same turn.

Awww, shoots I'm sad now.

I'm gonna enjoy ionizing Squints and then runnin' 'em over!

I'm gonna enjoy ionizing Squints and then runnin' 'em over!

You'll need to catch them first. 4-5 speed around the board edge and into the blind spots take a shorter time than some expect.

BACttDDaOLotHR?

Fixed that for you.

Anyway, back on topic. Ion Batteries are nice (especially as they can ionize a Large ship in one hit, so you know exactly where it'll be, so you know where to move to crush it!), I wonder if there will be a 4th Hardpoint released as well?

I'm hoping there is a crew like Vader, except it is something like: 'If there is a friendly ship at range 1 of an enemy ship, then attacks with your primary weapon are made with one extra dice (or the defender gets one fewer green. All friendly ships within range 1 of the target receive 1 damage.'

Doesn't deal 2 ion tokens. Its a single ion token and a critical damage. However, you CAN attack with multiple Ion Batteries in the same turn.

So those hits can't be canceled by dice? It says "suffers 1 critical damage..." but it doesn't say deal one face up damage card like other cards?

So those hits can't be canceled by dice? It says "suffers 1 critical damage..." but it doesn't say deal one face up damage card like other cards?

Uh, what? It works just like a fighter-mounted Ion Cannon, except it deals 1 critical damage instead of 1 normal damage.

So those hits can't be canceled by dice? It says "suffers 1 critical damage..." but it doesn't say deal one face up damage card like other cards?

Uh, what? It works just like a fighter-mounted Ion Cannon, except it deals 1 critical damage instead of 1 normal damage.

Yeah - the dice canceling steps are done to determine if the Ion Cannon hits. If the cannon hits (at least one uncancelled hit or crit), then you suffer a crit and cancel all the dice. Green dice have already done their thing by that point.

Anyway, back on topic. Ion Batteries are nice (especially as they can ionize a Large ship in one hit, so you know exactly where it'll be, so you know where to move to crush it!), I wonder if there will be a 4th Hardpoint released as well?

I'm hoping there is a crew like Vader, except it is something like: 'If there is a friendly ship at range 1 of an enemy ship, then attacks with your primary weapon are made with one extra dice (or the defender gets one fewer green. All friendly ships within range 1 of the target receive 1 damage.'

Doesn't deal 2 ion tokens. Its a single ion token and a critical damage. However, you CAN attack with multiple Ion Batteries in the same turn.

So those hits can't be canceled by dice? It says "suffers 1 critical damage..." but it doesn't say deal one face up damage card like other cards?

That just means it doesn't ignore shields.

Ion cannon batteries have better range than quads, and the targetted enemy doesn't double agility.

Single turbolasers will hurt a raider or a CR90 (or a deci) lots, but those ions I think will cripple an opposing hugeship while still being able to take small and large ships.

I'd rather use the ion batteries than single turbos i think.

Ion cannon batteries have better range than quads, and the targetted enemy doesn't double agility.

Single turbolasers will hurt a raider or a CR90 (or a deci) lots, but those ions I think will cripple an opposing hugeship while still being able to take small and large ships.

I'd rather use the ion batteries than single turbos i think.

I'm not so sure about it. Ion cannons aren't great vs other huge ships: it takes two energy to shoot the cannon, and it can only plink off one energy from the other guy (if you hit!). You run out of energy faster than you drain the other guy's energy firing these things.

Huge ships also tend to have a lot of shields; good for absorbing a few crits in an opening engagement. After shields are down the ion cannons get better.

Single Turbos are murder in Huge ship duels; I've run some tests in vassal and it can get ugly pretty fast if you have a turbo corvette shooting three turbos and its main gun, and a target lock or two (weapons engineer + sensor team is assumed) - even if you're shooting at a reinforced section, the damage adds up fast. Two turns of this kind of firepower is enough to cripple even a reinforced Raider fore section in a couple of turns with good reliability.

On the other hand, Ion cannons have advantages over single turbos if you're shooting them at fighters. No agility doubling, shorter range bands, less expensive.

It's a gamble then. Are you fighting fighters or a corvette or both. With only 1 hardpoint in the front, and the rear hardpoints probably being quads... This said looking at the range requirements, if you can get the raider into range 2...

Ion cannon batteries have better range than quads, and the targetted enemy doesn't double agility.

Single turbolasers will hurt a raider or a CR90 (or a deci) lots, but those ions I think will cripple an opposing hugeship while still being able to take small and large ships.

I'd rather use the ion batteries than single turbos i think.

I'm not so sure about it. Ion cannons aren't great vs other huge ships: it takes two energy to shoot the cannon, and it can only plink off one energy from the other guy (if you hit!). You run out of energy faster than you drain the other guy's energy firing these things.

Huge ships also tend to have a lot of shields; good for absorbing a few crits in an opening engagement. After shields are down the ion cannons get better.

Single Turbos are murder in Huge ship duels; I've run some tests in vassal and it can get ugly pretty fast if you have a turbo corvette shooting three turbos and its main gun, and a target lock or two (weapons engineer + sensor team is assumed) - even if you're shooting at a reinforced section, the damage adds up fast. Two turns of this kind of firepower is enough to cripple even a reinforced Raider fore section in a couple of turns with good reliability.

On the other hand, Ion cannons have advantages over single turbos if you're shooting them at fighters. No agility doubling, shorter range bands, less expensive.

So you coudl take both, and until the Huge Ship's shields are down you can either target smaller ships with your Ions or save/use the energy elsewhere, then use the Ions on the huge ships once its shields are down?

So you coudl take both, and until the Huge Ship's shields are down you can either target smaller ships with your Ions or save/use the energy elsewhere, then use the Ions on the huge ships once its shields are down?

I think the real question is going to be whether or not the Raider is a serious threat to small ships in the first place. Right now, corvettes do not typically fare well in epic play against small ships. It doesn't pay to bring turbos because they are expensive and very situational. If Raiders do better, turbolasers and corvettes in general may become a better investment, as a counter to the Raider.

A rough meta tripod could theeretically be : small ships beat Corvettes, Raiders beat small ships, Corvettes beat Raiders.

So you coudl take both, and until the Huge Ship's shields are down you can either target smaller ships with your Ions or save/use the energy elsewhere, then use the Ions on the huge ships once its shields are down?

I think the real question is going to be whether or not the Raider is a serious threat to small ships in the first place. Right now, corvettes do not typically fare well in epic play against small ships. It doesn't pay to bring turbos because they are expensive and very situational. If Raiders do better, turbolasers and corvettes in general may become a better investment, as a counter to the Raider.

A rough meta tripod could theeretically be : small ships beat Corvettes, Raiders beat small ships, Corvettes beat Raiders.

Aye, we'll have to wait and see. It's range 2 primary weapon (which you can fire twice) is a decent start, which it should be given the fluff.