Over the weekend my two teen daughters (18 and 15) played our first Act II quest--Monsters Hoard, which they had chosen by virtue of (barely) winning the interlude. They desperately wanted Trueshot.

In encounter I, they made a horrific decision of trying to turtle around Frederick to protect him while my golems and merroids just battered them. In the end, they lost and their heroes were in bad shape.

We started encounter II and within 2 rounds they were going nowhere and feeling frustrated. So we restarted (I would prefer a good game to an easy win) and gave them back all of their health. They got the first two close search tokens rather fast (no luck on Trueshot) while their two fighter heroes rode the drop-stand-drop-stand merry-go-round with a couple spiders and an elemental while Jain tried to reach the far search token (Trueshot) only to be dropped by two spiders and a goblin archer reinforcement. Since they lost encounter I, they couldn't use the transports, so that made trucking reinforcements over there easy. All of this happened in about 3 rounds and the outlook was bleak.

While I am competitive and want to win, the reality is that I have been playing board games, war games, D&D for 35+ years and they are relatively new, so I want to hook them not discourage them. Given that, should I have restarted the quest back at the first encounter and let them learn from that mistake? Any advice?--because I want them to enjoy the game because I long to spend all of my discretionary money on expansions!

The epilogue to all of this is that we played out encounter II, they lost Trueshot but, realizing they could not get it in time, they snagged the remaining two search tokens and got an Act II card from one and the money they used to buy a "grinding ax" that they both drooled over. So, in the end, I was trying to show them how they actually fared quite well considering the early devastating choice...but that didn't liven them up much.

An interest in competitive games is something that some people will have, and others won't. Some people develop it after a lot of exposure, but rarely in their first foray. Your best bet, if you're looking to get them into board games in general, is to play a co-operative game where you work together, like Legendary, Pandemic, or Arkham Horror.

Some people enjoy competitive games but only when they win, which is an unfortunate but reasonably common attitude. Others have a lot of fun regardless of whether they win or lose (I actually have a ton of fun getting my arse handed to me, which is a fairly rare occurrence, making it rather special when it happens), and those are the people who love the game for the game.

If you want to make sure they learn to like the games for the beauty of the game itself, it's best to play something where they don't get discouraged at first, and wean them onto competition. It can be especially difficult being their parent.

If you really want to continue with Descent for now (games are expensive!) for newer board gamers, I'd say try letting one of them play overlord, to get a feel for how complex or difficult it really is. That can give people an appreciation sometimes.

Either that, or just do what I do, and bust out the D&D books and run a gestalt game with 2 players =p.

Trying to foster interest in a game by ensuring they always win is a losing proposition in the long run in my opinion. Pointing out what they gained in spite of losing is a good idea. Losing a quest can lead to winning a campaign if the heroes nab all the search tokens and get the gold for a great item from the shop or draw the treasure chest. If sore loser syndrome is a concern, trying to have them focus on what they gained as opposed to focusing on what they missed out on might be a good approach. Maybe don't stick em with the bow with the first lieutenant you get

I think one of the things that can help new players to Descent 2e keep at it, even if they have lost some quests initially is to keep reminding them that they literally can lose each and every ACT I quest, the Interlude, and all ACT II quests, but can still win the game if they win the Finale.

While getting steamrolled throughout can make this difficult to achieve, it is possible, since many quests continue to give them XP whether they win or lose, and if they can maximize their gold by getting all of the search tokens ... anything is possible.

Great suggestions all.

When my youngest whines and complains, I take it with a grain of salt because she flat out hates to lose. But when my oldest voices some concern, I tend to listen because she is very long-suffering. Part of me appreciates their frustration because it means they are invested in the game. But it is hard to feel too bad for them when they won First Blood, one Act I quest and the Interlude.

We have played many co-op games and thrived. I like the idea of working with them to perhaps give OL a shot.

I echo the sentiment of passing the OL mantle around. The old saying about walking a mile in another person's shoes comes to mind. I find I have the best time playing this game with people who have sat on both sides of the table for a number of reasons:

-being OL forces you to become familiar with more of the game mechanics. You know the game better, and are less confused by (read:likely to complain about) new rules.

-playing both sides gives an appreciation of the ups and downs of the game- wins are seen as stepping stones, and losses as opportunities to salvage/learn.

-mostly, heroes who have been OLs (and vis versa) are better able to get into the heads of tbeir opponents- this leads to really interesting battles of wits, which adds so much more to the strategy.

Great points, Z.

I worry that they won't be able to handle the massive influx of rules that govern the OL. I'm not sure I even do it so well. For example, in running through some of the rules last night, I realized something I was playing horrifically wrong--I didn't realize that the relic The Bones of Woe required a lieutenant to utilize. So we have played the Interlude and Monster's Hoard with me having a 33.3% shot of getting an extra card each turn ! Also in last game, I know that I forgot to take the "coward" penalty when my master goblin archer fell.

I would love to take a shot at the heroes just so that I can understand their mechanics (and plight) a bit better. LEt's finish this first campaign and see if one of them is willing to give it a shot.

I would love to take a shot at the heroes just so that I can understand their mechanics (and plight) a bit better. LEt's finish this first campaign and see if one of them is willing to give it a shot.

Oh, absolutely- switching mid campaign isn't what I was suggesting- either alternate as you play multiple campaigns, or just do test runs of single quests.

If you feel they aren't up for a whole campaign, you could let them OL for a mini campaign, or even just do one off quests....

That might serve all of us better.

Most excellent--both of you have done your good deed for the day. Please pat yourself on the back for me.

It's unclear from your original post, but it sounds like you're playing the game with just two heroes, and both of them are fighters. Is that correct?

The game strongly favours the OL with just two heroes on the board. 4 actions is just not enough to make good head-way. The fact that both heroes are the same archetype makes things worse. Fighters are great a dishing out lots of damage to single targets, but killing things is not always going to help the heroes complete their goals. Especially not one at a time.

I would suggest playing with 4 heroes, assuming the girls are willing to control 2 heroes each. You could wait until the next campaign if you like, but this campaign is only going to get rougher going forward.

The good news is your girls did clue in to the idea of grabbing search tokens and heading for the hills. When it's an option, it's a good one.

Sorry for not being clearer, Steve-O. Yes my girls are each playing 2 heroes from the basic set--Leoric of the Book, Jain, a necromancer and a fighter whose name starts with S (Syn-something). Before getting the game for Christmas, I read many of the posts in here and saw numerous times the need to play with 4 heroes, so that is what we have done.

Of the 6 quests we have played to date, 4 have been very competitive and 3 have been undecided until very near the end and, of those, 2 were last minute, shocking, grab victory from the jaws of defeat wins, one for each side (yup, exciting wins!). The other one that wasn't competitive, I think it was encounter II of Masquerade Ball where the lady had to flee through the locked doors ahead of the heroes, it was kind of embarrassingly easy as I made most of my throws to get through the doors and they weren't close to catching her while trying to slog through my monsters.

All that to say that they have made a few very bad decisions (like encounter I of Monster's Hoard) but still most quests are close affairs. I offered to them to redo the last quest because I had botched a couple significant rules (use of Bones of Woe and "Cowardly") but I told them that getting 2 act II weapons and all of the search tokens was the second best outcome they possibly could hope for after getting Trueshot. They wanted to let it stand.

Having let things settle for a few days, when I brought it up yesterday the seemed interested again and that's a good sign--especially since I have LotW and LoR in my closet yet unveiled!

So if I'm understanding correctly you are using only shadow rune stuff so far, the party set up is:

Jain Farstrider (wildlander or thief?)

Syndrael (Knight or Berserker?)

Leoric of the Book as the Runemaster

Widow Tarha (the other mage) as the Necromancer.

is this correct?

Yes, only the base campaign. I believe they are:

Jain as wildlander

Syndrael as berserker

Leoric as necromancer

Averic as spiritspeaker

Again, I have never played a hero, so I am very unsure about what they can each do, but I will say that I am always shocked by how little they ever heal. I didn't actually realize Averic was a healer because IIRC he is always near the front line with Leoric and and Jain behind. They get healing pots from search tokens and they almost always go unused.

In addition to the good suggestions offered above, remember that there are official co-op adventures available for Descent that change how the game is played. Also, do not forget about the excellent fan-made variants that are available on BGG. RedJak's Automated Overlord Variant allows you to play any quest or campaign cooperatively, RedJak's DelvenDeep Expansion creates a one-off hack-and-slash adventure, and combining RAOV with my Legendary Play Variant Rules , you have nigh-unlimited quest and campaign variations.