IMO, one of the flaws of X-Wing is the low values they use for stats. I think the game would of been better if they had gone with stats like...

Rookie X-Wing PS2, Attack 6, Defense 4, Hull 6, Shield 4

Academy Pilot PS1, Attack 4, Defense 6, Hull 6

May of made the game take longer to play, but with more dice, the amount of factor luck would of had would be reduced greatly. Plus then you have more room for other ships.

A B-Wing for example could of been Attack 7, Defense 1, Hull 8, Shield 10.

You avoid some of the Attack Wing problems in that the defense dice also scale up, where that game just has red far outnumbering green. That would seem to offer some more granularity at first, so any one bad dice roll then does less to you, but I'd worry about that also increasing the gap in efficiency between attack and defense dice, since they have twice the number of blanks.

The point you 2 different sides keep dancing around is that such an addition too the game could only really be used in 1 expansion, not on an ongoing basis in multiple future ships.

One of you is saying "this could be added one time, as an upgrade card to make it relevant to more ships"

The other side is saying "this won't work because you'd end up with a dozen of these dice after it's been included in a dozen expansions."

I think it's too late for it, but the other FFG Star Wars games do this.

It's a brillant idea, just TIE Pilot is right and we certainly won't see that happen until "X-Wing 2.0"

I think it's too late for it, but the other FFG Star Wars games do this.

Yes Armada will have that, and i find it a nice way to fine-tune the danage potential of ships, because +1or -1 AD is a huge step in either direction while with different dice you could even represent different types of guns on ships

It's a brillant idea, just TIE Pilot is right and we certainly won't see that happen until "X-Wing 2.0"

To be fair, we already have that. It's called the Evade action

But again, it has been against FFG policy to make such a Rebel Aces pack required for any new ships that would use the die.

Seeing how it's an upgrade, I don't see how this is an issue. It would only be an issue if they were to hardbake the black die into a ship they release latter on.

If it's an upgrade then the only time you'd use it, is if you have that upgrade card, which would of course mean you have access to the dice since they came in the same pack.

And do you honestly believe people will be satisfied with the new die being used with only one upgrade?

I think this idea could work well, but it is far too late. FFG would need to either errata (which is messy) or re-release a lot of ships to incorporate a mechanic change like this. Right now we are have ship-specific-upgrades fixing TIE/In, TIE/x1. A-Wing, Y-Wing (with S&V) and probably X-wing sooner or later. We don't really need to add additional titles for 4 more ships so that these dice would be used in enough places to make them worthwhile.

For Huge Ships this could work, as they really need fixing, but for current ships I think they are already balanced well enough that adding in this change would do more harm than good.

And do you honestly believe people will be satisfied with the new die being used with only one upgrade?

Honestly I don't think people will ever be satisfied. But that's not a reason to avoid doing something. If the upgrade is generic enough then it can be used on a large range of ships, which has it's own pros and cons. But that does mean there's less need to produce even more upgrades with that new die.

Another option would be an updated dice pack with the new die. I know that goes against their methods, but frankly I think their methods sometimes cause more problems than they fix.

For better or worse, I think a new die type could help the game. However, this wouldn't likely happen untill X-wing 2.0/revised comes out.

There is no real way to implement a new die type that doesn't cost the customer more, or alienate them by forcing a player to buy an expansion they may not need or want.

Tournaments would be a mess.

Updating old product would be a nightmare.

However, were FFG to do this, perhaps the best way would be to redeem those proof of purchases that get punched out of the card sheets.

There is no real way to implement a new die type that doesn't cost the customer more, or alienate them by forcing a player to buy an expansion they may not need or want.

An Aces pack would cost maybe $2-3 more than normal. That is hardly a huge burden on anyone.

It's already established that FFG will release expansions that have upgrades people want, even if they don't want the ship that comes in it. Few people wanted 4 Shuttles but bought them for the sake of Advanced Sensors. So this is hardly something new.

A new die that is tied to a upgrade would not cause any more issues than any other upgrade currently does.

Forum Search Elite Dice...we had a very lengthy discussion and some great ideas Pre-Defender I think. I think it was started by making an elite evade dice and we ported the idea into attack dice because at the time there was no 4 att and the poor hawk at 1. so it was a way of making the evades smooth out and allowed for consistent damage rather than MORE damage.

I think the idea had merit but now it's WAY too late to do so. Defender, phantom, and ewing would all have used it. A HWK upgrade could still save the turretless bugger but that's about it.

Please do not turn this into Attack Wing.

No new dice, please.

The simplicity of the base rules are a strength for x-wing. Newbs pick a manuever, roll red to shoot and roll green to defend. It was basic enough I was able to convince/trick my wife into playing a couple of times.

Games start to die when extra things keep creeping in as everyone wants more and more (it's only natural!) until you end up with a weighty, cumbersome system full of upgrades, patches, and jury-rigged fixes. Then everything has to get scrapped, thrown out, and new edition comes in.

No new dice, please.

The simplicity of the base rules are a strength for x-wing. Newbs pick a manuever, roll red to shoot and roll green to defend. It was basic enough I was able to convince/trick my wife into playing a couple of times.

Games start to die when extra things keep creeping in as everyone wants more and more (it's only natural!) until you end up with a weighty, cumbersome system full of upgrades, patches, and jury-rigged fixes. Then everything has to get scrapped, thrown out, and new edition comes in.

I think some players themselves are driving it this way. Please FFG resist the temptation.

Please do not turn this into Attack Wing.

The issue with the elite die in Attack Wing was more about how you got it, then the die itself.

The fact that the Defender, E-Wing, ect... should have it, again easily fixed with having the die tied to an upgrade, then you can put it on any ship.

I'm not really championing the blue/elite die so much as pointing out it is not by any means too late to add such a thing to the game.

Please do not turn this into Attack Wing.

The issue with the elite die in Attack Wing was more about how you got it, then the die itself.

The fact that the Defender, E-Wing, ect... should have it, again easily fixed with having the die tied to an upgrade, then you can put it on any ship.

I'm not really championing the blue/elite die so much as pointing out it is not by any means too late to add such a thing to the game.

When you said "The fact that the Defender, E-Wing, ect... should have it,", did you mean to use 'fact'?

I'm not sure if that is an accepted fact. Some of us like those ships now as they are.

I'm not sure if that is an accepted fact. Some of us like those ships now as they are.

You're right, that wasn't worded quite like I intended.

I was saying that if those ships should get an elite/updated die, then having it tied to a upgrade would allow older ships that maybe should of had such a thing to have it.

I'm I being too picky in a word?

I'm I being too picky in a word?

No, what I said wasn't really what I was trying to say. I can see how it sounded like I was saying these ships Need that new dice to function and that was a simple statement of fact.

When that's not what I really meant, and even if I did... It wasn't really a fact it would've been a statement of opinion.

Although it is far too late for it now I too would have liked to see stats with more room for variation. Going from 2 to 4 to 6 is very similar to going from 1 to 2 to 3 although when looking at dice it does produce a more average result. Having that increased range would have allowed better variation but then the question becomes is that variation needed.

IF you were to introduce a blue die to represent a "half" step I wonder if it shouldn't have two of each of these on it: [hit] [squiggly] [eye] [blank] so it could be used for offense or defense where the wrong symbols are just ignored. Comparing this to red and green this how it looks:

Red: 4/8 produce some hit effect moving to 6/8 w/ Focus vs. Blue 2/8 [hit] or 4/8 w/ Focus.

Green: 3/8 produce [squiggle] and 5/8 w/ Focus vs. a Blue 2/8 and 4/8

I guess that would make the Blue 1/4 less than a RED but only 1/8 less than a GREEN so it is more than a half step. How about a 1/1/3/3 version which give 1/8 good result without a Focus while keeping the 4/8 good result w/ Focus.

I dont think we need to Improve the attack die at all.....

If they ever redid the dice, I think it would be cool to change one of the three evades on the green dice into a "super evade". Every super evade you roll would cancel a crit first.

So if someone rolled hit-crit, and you rolled a super evade, you would only take damage from the 1 hit, not the crit.

If they ever redid the dice, I think it would be cool to change one of the three evades on the green dice into a "super evade". Every super evade you roll would cancel a crit first.

So if someone rolled hit-crit, and you rolled a super evade, you would only take damage from the 1 hit, not the crit.

An interesting mechanic, although every type of evade dice would need fewer total evades than the corresponding attack dice (i.e. elite Attack has 1 more hit+crit than Defense has evade + super evade) in order to ensure the game progresses reliably.