I feel like TIE Swarms would be very powerful in the current meta, but your standard TIE Fighter is way too squishy in this age of actionless dice modification (Predator, Chiraneau, and Gunner (kind of)) and the Phantom Menace out dodging and destroying a TIE a turn. I think I have an answer: The return of the Fat Swarm!

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics (20)

Scimitar Squadron Bomber (16) x5

With over 50% more health points than your standard 7-TIE swarm and only one less gun shooting, I feel like the Fat Swarm is durable enough to survive shooting (mostly) last in this 2-3 ship meta. You'll be consistently shooting with all six ships in the first round of shooting and more than likely using all six in the second as well, negating one of the problems I've had with the Swarm of losing one or two ships a turn like clockwork.

Thoughts?

Further thoughts: It's still weak to arc dodgers, but I believe it's durable enough to fight large ships, Corran, and enemy swarms.

The dials on these two ships are pretty different. Howlrunner will have a harder time moving in formation. Also, I think you want some way (besides one extra green die) to encourage a target other than Howlrunner. How much damage do you think you can achieve before Howlrunner is gone?

I was also thinking of bringing back old lists, specifically 4 Bombers with Jonus and ordnance, put some of the new shiny stuff, maybe some proximity mines...

The problem with tie swarms in this meta are not the TIEs themselves, it's the tactics. Formation flying is too easy to avoid with dash and phantoms, and even boosting decimators and falcons a lot of the time. Which is what you want to swarm on. Obviously you can still win when some of these ships fly right into you, but the tie swarm is probably best at the moment as 8 ties instead of having howlrunner.

The whole reason that howlrunner dominated in the first 3 waves is that formation flying was the dominant tactic and howlrunner (and biggs) was better at it than everyone else.

I'd like to bring back the 6 named Tie Fighters, but think a Fat Han would eat them for breakfast. It's all the re-rolling that would do it. Otherwise, I think it would be OK.

your standard TIE Fighter is way too squishy

They cost 12 points.

destroying a TIE a turn

To kill a TIE in one shot you need to roll three more hits than it rolls evades. That's not actually that likely. It happens, TIEs do blank out and that sometimes matches up with full hits, but every turn? That's VERY unlikely. TIE oneshots happen, one ship killing one ship a turn doesn't really.

I've taken the swarm down to local touranments, they still the got it

The trick is just not to be super anal about Howlrunner if it would mean sacrificing flexibility. Blocking decloak lanes is far more important than a single re-roll.

Blocking is a lost art on these boards, but it's more than doable

The real nemesis of the Tie swarm is green dice. That ****'ll block more shots than all the arc-dodgers in the game

...The return of the Fat Swarm!

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics (20)

Scimitar Squadron Bomber (16) x5

Academy Pilot + Hull Upgrade is a hair cheaper and has just about the same defensive efficiency.

Further thoughts: It's still weak to arc dodgers...

This is my big concern; I suspect that in the upcoming metagame, a weakness to arc dodgers like Whisper + Veteran Instincts, Fel + Autothrusters, and Vader + Advanced Targeting Computer + Engine Upgrade is going to be a crippling one.

Interesting thought on the Hull Upgrade, Vorpal Sword. What about Obsidian + Hull to avoid Predator antics that are all too common? Or is that too much invested in fighting a meta that may not exist?

Interesting thought on the Hull Upgrade, Vorpal Sword. What about Obsidian + Hull to avoid Predator antics that are all too common? Or is that too much invested in fighting a meta that may not exist?

Uh, I guess I don't know. I think it depends on how common Predator actually turns out to be in the Wave 6 metagame, how invested your play style is in blocking on PS1, and on what other upgrades you might want to buy with those 5 points.

For me, I probably wouldn't--but then I'm a fan of mixed lists anyway, so I'm way more likely to run Howlrunner/3x Academy as a mini-swarm and use the other 46 points for a Firespray or a pair of Interceptors or something.

your standard TIE Fighter is way too squishy

They cost 12 points.

destroying a TIE a turn

To kill a TIE in one shot you need to roll three more hits than it rolls evades. That's not actually that likely. It happens, TIEs do blank out and that sometimes matches up with full hits, but every turn? That's VERY unlikely. TIE oneshots happen, one ship killing one ship a turn doesn't really.

Yes, but what if your opponent has more than one ship?

Then it's not a Phantom killing a ship a turn. It's a 100pts of list and you can easily return the favour with your 100pts of 14-16 attack dice. The fragility argument breaks down.

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

Aah, I missed the original quote saying that.

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

...?

At Range 1, assuming the Phantom has a focus token and the A-wing player is drunk or something and forgot to take an action, the Phantom still only OHKOs the A-wing about 25% of the time. Are there really people in this community who can't tell the difference between a sure thing and 3:1 odds against?

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

...?

At Range 1, assuming the Phantom has a focus token and the A-wing player is drunk or something and forgot to take an action, the Phantom still only OHKOs the A-wing about 25% of the time. Are there really people in this community who can't tell the difference between a sure thing and 3:1 odds against?

You get enough people throwing a perfect hand of four unmodified dice, and you'll start believing the same thing

Had that happen a few incredibly unfortunate times, and it took a while to figure out that FCS actually mattered for the Phantom's damage output.

Hell, on Sunday I had an action-less Han (blocked) and a focused Corran inflict almost literally the most damage they could have possibly inflicted on two different firesprays. Range 1 Han ripped four shields off of one and range 2 Corran double tapped for six total damage (to be fair, it was four shields and a direct hit crit...joy)

Nothing more discouraging than flying well and having it all invalidated by some spikes, but thems the breaks. Best you can do is keep trying and know that, in most cases, that kind of damage really should not be expected.

Then it's not a Phantom killing a ship a turn. It's a 100pts of list and you can easily return the favour with your 100pts of 14-16 attack dice. The fragility argument breaks down.

I know that a Phantom alone won't kill aTIE a turn, bit a Phantom+Decimator will, as will Fel and Firespray and Corran+Dash. In this high firepower meta, a competent opponent will be able to focus down at least one TIE per turn

Then it's not a Phantom killing a ship a turn. It's a 100pts of list and you can easily return the favour with your 100pts of 14-16 attack dice. The fragility argument breaks down.

I know that a Phantom alone won't kill aTIE a turn, bit a Phantom+Decimator will, as will Fel and Firespray and Corran+Dash. In this high firepower meta, a competent opponent will be able to focus down at least one TIE per turn

And apparently competent Tie players can't see this coming, eh? Not saying you won't lose anything, just that you could make a opponent pay inordinately for the Tie he kills (it's an integral part of tie swarm play-style)

There's two people per game, I'm afraid, and it's really difficult to take blanket statements seriously unless it's explicitly supported by the mechanics of the game. As is, I can't find any "competent phantom + decimator will remove a tie per turn) in the rulebook.

I've had two 4 dice attacks in a round kill a full health b-wing a few times before, it's very doable with predator and focus on each ship, and is a bit easier if the b-wing doesn't have a focus for defense.

I've had two 4 dice attacks in a round kill a full health b-wing a few times before, it's very doable with predator and focus on each ship, and is a bit easier if the b-wing doesn't have a focus for defense.

Oh sure, it's doable. It is ludicrous to say that it is not in the realm of possibility to one-shot a Tie when the minimum requirement three 3 red dice or 2 reds and a direct hit.

It's just as ludicrous to discard all other potential outcomes in every game against every player and make believe that such a thing is a certain outcome because the list is being flown by a "competent opponent."

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

...?At Range 1, assuming the Phantom has a focus token and the A-wing player is drunk or something and forgot to take an action, the Phantom still only OHKOs the A-wing about 25% of the time. Are there really people in this community who can't tell the difference between a sure thing and 3:1 odds against?

Me but I am disnumerate

Course I never claimed nothin bout a-wings.

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

I heard that the phantom can one shot a B-Wing from range 3!!!!

I still love running Vessery + Scimitar Bombers. Not as much HP, but Vessery can offer some serious punch and maneuverability to the list.

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

I heard that the phantom can one shot a B-Wing from range 3!!!!

That would require 7 dice: currently impossible at range 3. Still, easier than 1-shotting a Firespray...

I saw someone say the other day that a phantom would oneshot an A-wing every turn. The phantom's good but people have a way overblown image of its offensive capabilites.

I heard that the phantom can one shot a B-Wing from range 3!!!!

That would require 7 dice: currently impossible at range 3. Still, easier than 1-shotting a Firespray...

Just a little humor!