Decimator and Expose

By Ken at Sunrise, in X-Wing

This has probably been asked, sorry if so.

Is Expose worth it on a Decimator? There's no real cost to Agility since you're already at zero and it gives you a 4 attack which isn't bad. The reason I don't thinks it's worth it is that it takes an action.

Thoughts?

That's why people use experimental interface with it

Though it gives you a stress. And I'm not overly fond of the decimator green moves.

You end up going further from battle.

Another option would be have a shuttle with fleet officer on it

The shuttle is worse off from stress than the decimator, that you you roll a black squadron pilot with wingman.

I have lost a final game of a tournament against an Expose Decimator with Rear Admiral Cheerios. So it does work, sadly for me :)

Edited by Scurvy Lobster

If the price of reducing your Decimator to Green moves for most of the game, and making you vulnerable to additional stress effects; is worth "paying" to you, for the bonus of an extra attack die & a possible secondary action - then yes it is worth it.

Edited by Keffisch

It only worth it if you doesn't spend your main action to get it because on average:

Expose: 2 dmg (2.25 dmg if Chiraneau)

Focus: 2.25 dmg

Target Lock: 2.25 dmg (2.50 dmg if Chiraneau)

Edited by Wildhorn

It only worth it if you doesn't spend your main action to get it because on average:

Expose: 2 dmg

Focus: 2.25 dmg

Target Lock: 2.25 dmg

As Wildhorn says, the problem with Expose is that for ships with 3 Attack, it produces less damage on average than a focus or target lock. (When you start comparing results there are some corner cases where Expose is a better choice, but they're relatively rare.)

Expose plus either focus or target lock produces better average damage than focus and target lock do together, though. So Expose is worth using on a Decimator as long as you can reliably combine it with another offensive action using Experimental Interface, a Fleet Officer, Squad Leader, etc.

I like to use predator on my decimator, together with a gunner (suck it bad dice luck)!

It only worth it if you doesn't spend your main action to get it because on average:

Expose: 2 dmg

Focus: 2.25 dmg

Target Lock: 2.25 dmg

As Wildhorn says, the problem with Expose is that for ships with 3 Attack, it produces less damage on average than a focus or target lock. (When you start comparing results there are some corner cases where Expose is a better choice, but they're relatively rare.)

Expose plus either focus or target lock produces better average damage than focus and target lock do together, though. So Expose is worth using on a Decimator as long as you can reliably combine it with another offensive action using Experimental Interface, a Fleet Officer, Squad Leader, etc.

Getting that second action is the hard part though.

Geting the actions are not hard at all. With EI you can get your second action. Having Ysanne Issard as a crew, even if you bump, she will trigger at the start of combat and can expose off of that. As mentioned, having a Black Squad tie close with wingman allows for all this and no stress after all the fun

If you have a gunner, then expose also becomes worth it - things like marksmanship and expose that don't involve tokens gain an edge when you're throwing multiple attacks as you get to use them on both.

Expose + Experimental Interface on the Rear Admiral is good until you run into an enemy Decimator with Rebel Captive. Gets a little tough at that point, since so many potentially wasted pts if you get double stressed. I just LOVE rolling 5 dice on a turret without needing TOO many hoops to jump through, or Using Jan Ors. Just the 1 or 2 weaknesses I think.

I'm wondering...

This
Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Expose (4)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Mercenary Copilot (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Experimental Interface (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Wingman (2)

"Howlrunner" (18)
Wingman (2)

Total: 98
View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Or this
Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Expose (4)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Mercenary Copilot (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Experimental Interface (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Wingman (2)
Stealth Device (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Wingman (2)
Stealth Device (3)

Total: 100
View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Thoughts?

I'm wondering...

---Snip---

Thoughts?

is "Neither" an option?

You're severely lacking in the damage department, even if you are attacking with 4-5 dice from your decimator.

I'm wondering...

---Snip---

Thoughts?

is "Neither" an option?

You're severely lacking in the damage department, even if you are attacking with 4-5 dice from your decimator.

:( Yeah I was wondering about that...

Is the Phantom the only viable partner with the Decimator?

Thoughts?

I wouldn't run either one, honestly. Expose + Experimental Interface is already expensive; running double Wingman costs you another 8 points (the difference between 2x Academy Pilot and 2x Black Squadron + Wingman). So you're spending 15 points to get a single extra attack die, which is probably too much.

Adding on the Mercenary Copilot and Stealth Devices further inflates the list, and I'm not really sure what the Recon Specialist is doing in there. Fundamentally, I think you're spending too much to get Expose to work; either deal with the stress overhead of Expose + Experimental Interface, or drop Expose entirely and take something like Predator as your offensive buff.

Recon specialist kinda sucks on the decimator. With no agility it's worthless for defense and only maybe useful if you have gunner and on admiral Cheerios taking the focus action is mostly redundant anyway. I like weapons engineer. Use your action to double TL, admiral's ability provides a pseudo focus and EI to expose and you get 4-5 dice with BOTH focus and TL. I have flown that with 3 academy ties as blockers to great effect.

Another option is to loose the expose and EI and fly the admiral with predator and engine upgrade. Still get the focus and reroll effects, loose a die of attack to arc dodge better.

I haven't really found the selection of greens a problem for removing stress on the decimator. It's such a big target that, IME, whatever enemies are left will follow it once it gets passed the initial engagement.

Against **** tons of green dice or the two ship meta, yeah. Having an HLC equivalent is ridiculous, especially because it gets shot up to 5 dice at range 1.

Against swarms or anyone even remotely geared to taking on fatties, you better pucker up because Engine was your only saving grace

Edited by ficklegreendice

It only worth it if you doesn't spend your main action to get it because on average:

Expose: 2 dmg (2.25 dmg if Chiraneau)

Focus: 2.25 dmg

Target Lock: 2.25 dmg (2.50 dmg if Chiraneau)

Sadly, it's not a simple as adding .25 for turning one focus (.25) into a hit.

The actual numbers are something like this:

3 Unmodified dice = 1.5

3 Chiraneau dice = 2.08

3 Focus dice = 2.25

3 Chiraneau TL dice = 2.62

4 Unmodified dice = 2

4 Chiraneau dice = 2.68

4 Focus dice = 3

4 Chiraneau TL dice = 3.29

5 Chiraneau dice = 3.26

So, if we compare 4 Chiraneau dice vs. 3 Chiraneau TL dice, you'll see that the expose action is .06 BETTER than the TL action. At R1, the TL is .03 better than Expose.

Which means on average, Expose on Chiraneau is a wash and not worth paying extra points for. However, as we all know, this game doesn't live by averages. Expose has a greater variance than TL does on Chiraneau. What this means is that you're going to be more streaky - but in a meta where you have fat YTs dodging the first 3 damage each turn, and Phantoms with 4 agility and F+E, and regening Corrans, rolling 1-2 hits is kinda pointless.

So, the lower half of the variance is the same - it doesn't matter if you're rolling 1 hit 30% of the time or 1 hit 10% of the time and 0 hits the other 20% - neither setup is going to be doing significant damage. However, using Expose will allow you to roll 4-5 hits at a much higher frequency than otherwise.

For comparison sake, 3CTL vs. 4C

0 hit = 0 vs. 0

1 hit = .04 vs. .09

2 hit = .28 vs. .31

3 hit = .67 vs .41

4 hit = 0 vs. .19

If you add the 3 and 4 hits together, your probability of rolling 3+ hits = .6 with Expose, vs. .67 with TL. I don't know about you guys, but even as a single action, I'd rather give up a 7% "useful shot" in order for a 19% "super useful" shot.

TL:DR

Expose CAN work (even without EI) on Chinareau. It may not be the best use of points, but in a high mitigation meta, the 20% chance of 4 <booms> can be worth 4pts.

Edit: Something else I don't see posted anywhere yet, another nice thing about EI Expose, is you can trigger it off of Ysand at the start of combat, so you become pretty much unblockable.

Edited by Khyros

TL:DR

Expose CAN work (even without EI) on Chinareau. It may not be the best use of points, but in a high mitigation meta, the 20% chance of 4 <booms> can be worth 4pts.

I wasn't planning on getting into the weeds with Chiraneau's ability and how Expose stacks up against target lock if you're facing something with lots of mitigation, although in retrospect maybe I should have--there's not only Han to consider but the imminent arrival of Autothrusters, both of which make landing 4 hits more valuable.