What's the community census on this squad?

Vader

Predator

Title

Advanced targeting computer

Fel

Ptl

Autothrusters

Echo

Veteran instincts

Advanced cloak

I'm wondering once everything is released will we see lists like this do well in the tournament scene.

I also think it looks crazy fun even if it's not a good tournament squad and can't wait to try it.

I haven't had a chance yet to try it out on vassal. ( wife just had a baby so crazy busy)

On paper it looks solid

Two ps9 and an 8 and they are heavy hitters and a good amount of defense.

If flown well would this be a force to be reckon with?

In order to fit echo in i had to make changes but another option I thought was

Fel

Ptl

Autothrusters

Royal guard

Stealth device

Vader

Predator

Title

Advanced targeting computer

Shadow Squadron

Stygium Particle Accelerator

Recon specialist

Only downside to this is the shadow is not as slippery as echo and is lower ps, but defensive enough to stay alive and still packs a wallop.

If anything could be a good Decoy if opponent decides to chase the shadow

This also allowed me to put stealth on fel increasing his evade chance

Again would this be a good squad?

Which of the two looks best?

That would be an intense experience to fly (don't **** up, though, because any one of those 3 is screwed the moment you lose their actions), especially because Vader without an engine is going to have to position very well to keep up with the other two.

Honestly, at 100 points I think Echo is holding you back without FCS and no initiative bid.

What you could do is shift Predator from Vader, slap him with V.I (another one, do not remove Echo's), and then handing Echo FCS (which, imo, makes the phantom many times more effective).

What this does is completely hamstring whisper (or soontir clones or Turr) when he starts gloating about how he can outmanuever echo and the baron, only to hear that familiar breathing coming up from behind...

Speaking of Turr, you can afford an engine for Vader if you replace Soontir with Turr (V.I and thrusters)

Ya, I hear you on the no engine upgrade in vader.

Sacrifices had to be made.

I've done well with echo before with only 2 upgrades.

I didn't use fire control systems in a lot of builds.

I like Turr, but fel is just pure awesome sauce.

I thought about lone wolf on vader but was thinking keep echo close to him, more of a Decoy, and decided on predator on vader so he gets a better action economy, since he cannot spend his targetlock

Looking it over i could go with the shadow and instead of Recon Specialist, throw Tactician on her, and that'll allow me to get the engine upgrade on vader.

I can hold agree with your first statement.

It does have to be flown well, and not a whole lot of room for error, but still even with the first list, having those 3 high ps ships, it's a very good chance things will die before they fire back

Even so turtle up with fel if needed. Echo is a pain anyway, and vader would likely be the easiest target without engine upgrade, but hopefully enough dmg can be done to minimize the return fire.

I wonder will lists like this appear more and do well after Wave 6 and the raider?

Even if it doesn't I think it just looks like fun.

I'm hoping to maybe try it out tonight on vassal if I don't fall asleep first lol

Thank you fir your input as well. I agree with what you say

Has anyone tried this yet?

Surely I'm not the first to come up with this build.

If so how did it perform?

I'm of the personal belief that lists like these are impossible to visualize until you actually get them on the table. On the forums, it's going to be very difficult to distill the squad's maneuverability and glass cannon status especially in light of new ships that not everyone has proxied or played on vassal.

But fun? well you can tell just by looking at it

I'm of the personal belief that lists like these are impossible to visualize until you actually get them on the table. On the forums, it's going to be very difficult to distill the squad's maneuverability and glass cannon status especially in light of new ships that not everyone has proxied or played on vassal.

But fun? well you can tell just by looking at it

While it looks good, the question remains, is it good? Lol

It may also take couple tries to really know.

Have to get the setup just right. Ive been thinking how I want to place the, and how I should I begin with opening maneuvers. That can make a world of difference.

Have to start off on the right foot.

And thats just it

Even if it's not competitive, using this just looks like fun, and something that could be annoying to my friends lol. If that case losing is ok since I know they had to work for it

I like the first squad with "Whisper" instead of "Echo". That means dropping Predator from Vader, but gives you PS999 at 99 points toward initiative.

For the second squad, try Sigma instead of Shadow, and drop the RecSpec for Enhanced Scopes and Intelligence Agent. Not as action efficient, but you gain a lot of positional power for such a low PS pilot that the Phantom really needs. You also gain 3 points to play with, so Stealth or Hull on Vader, or if you can squeeze another point somewhere, Engine.

Not a bad idea.

Having the 3 at ps 9 could be very nice and maybe more competitive?

Taking predator off vader however may make him do less dmg.

Would the change be worth it?

For preference though, I love echo.

For the second squad I'm not sure if I like enhance scopes on a sigma.

I love the shadow. At ps5 it may shoot before lotsbof other ships.

The Sigma on the other hand could be dead before it gets to shoot

I've used the Intel agent a few times but I'm bad at for forgetting about that upgrade lol.

Though I do see where your going with it, and it maybe crazy enough to work.

I'll keep it in mind

Thinking about it, while predator makes it incredibly likely that you'll be getting the maximum 2 damage and far more likely that a range one shot will hit some for 3 (both with +1 crit damage from the ATC) it does seem to be the least necessary upgrade on Vader

I would much rather have re-rolls on the phantom's four dice than 1 or 2 re-rolls on the Advance's two (since the crit is guaranteed), for example.

So fire control on echo over predator on vader?

I am considering trying that, but only thing is for echo it doesn't kick in until the second attack phase.

With vader it gives him a better action economy since he can't spend his target lock.

But on the other hand that would put the squad at 99 pts.

Hmmm

I think this will take a few play throughs all good ideas

Somewhat lacking in health, so reliant on green dice. Vunerable to stress effects.

Three ships designed or set up to glass cannon or arcdodge mean there's no "anchor" to define the battlefield and draw fire off your other ships. TIE advanceds are tough but not that tough. The approach is critical here.

That being said, three solid ships. It's risky but looks fun.

I played a list that was Vader Fel Echo in a recent tournament. While he didn't have VI on Echo I managed to blast her away in two shots without having any trouble, nailing down Vader and Fel was rough.

He ended up getting 4th out of 16 I think.

Squirrely list.

Somewhat lacking in health, so reliant on green dice. Vunerable to stress effects.

Three ships designed or set up to glass cannon or arcdodge mean there's no "anchor" to define the battlefield and draw fire off your other ships. TIE advanceds are tough but not that tough. The approach is critical here.

That being said, three solid ships. It's risky but looks fun.

Tried it on vassal.

Didn't bode so well lol.

First round of attack echo took two dmg.

3 v 5 and blanks.

Was against rear admiral and echo.

Vader and fel just chased echo around, and he did good keeping them busy as I got tunnel vision.

One of my mistakes, and well played on his part. I would have done the exact same thing

But your right. To reliant on the green dice

Unfortunately the dice were pretty one sided.

Most of my green dice were blanks while his red dice couldn't miss, and mine with focuses, blanks.

One thing o find about vassal is some games feel so one sides

Always makes me feel bad when I'm on the winning end, and see it happen to my opponent, and in some games I apologize lol. It's either they are hot, or dead. Never much in between.

But ya, I did make some mistakes, and I would definitely try it again, and now that I've given it a go do things a lot differently.

Also found rebel captive is a weakness for this type of build. Best case scenario is get vader to shoot it first.

I do love RAC and echo though

As others have also said In other threads, gunner will be more popular once auto thrusters are released.

I usually don't bother with it myself and do fine without it, but ya, I can see me using it more as well.

And as you put it, no anchor which I usually like to have.

I don't fly glass canon lists much just for that reason

Low health, green dice dependant.

But I think with practice this is a good list

Just needs to work out some kinks in its armor

And maybe give it some armor lol

I flew Fel/ Echo/ Maarek tonight and had a lot of fun pushing crits through with Maarek using EI+Marksmanship. It also marked the first time I have ever flown the Phantom in the 8 months I have owned it.

After thinking about it, if I had focus fired on the decimator instead chasing echo around, I thibk u could have killed it pretty quick

I had the initiative

I put echo on right side, he put his echo opposite and decimator in jousting of my echo, and I had put vader and fel on opposite side

I think I should have went eight for the decimator

Oh well that's how we learn

What's the community census on this squad?

Vader

Predator

Title

Advanced targeting computer

Fel

Ptl

Autothrusters

Echo

Veteran instincts

Advanced cloak

My major objection is that Fel is going to love Stealth Device almost as much as Vader loves Engine Upgrade, and (IMO, of course) it's really hard to run Echo without Fire Control System or Recon Specialist to provide her with an extra action. I understand you have to trim somewhere to get Echo into the list as well (building out all three pilots just the way I'd like them puts you at 109 points), but I think that's an indication that you might be trying to do too much with the list.

So I'd divide this into three lists: Vader/Fel with 28 points free, Vader/Echo with 26 points free, and Fel/Echo with 28 points free.

28 points gives you Royal Guard Pilot + Push the Limit + Autothrusters with a point left over for initiative, or an Omicron Group Pilot + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade. If you don't like those, there are of course a lot of other possible options there.

You know there is a sub-forum for this stuff, right?

What's the community census on this squad?VaderPredatorTitleAdvanced targeting computerFelPtlAutothrustersEchoVeteran instinctsAdvanced cloak

My major objection is that Fel is going to love Stealth Device almost as much as Vader loves Engine Upgrade, and (IMO, of course) it's really hard to run Echo without Fire Control System or Recon Specialist to provide her with an extra action. I understand you have to trim somewhere to get Echo into the list as well (building out all three pilots just the way I'd like them puts you at 109 points), but I think that's an indication that you might be trying to do too much with the list.So I'd divide this into three lists: Vader/Fel with 28 points free, Vader/Echo with 26 points free, and Fel/Echo with 28 points free.28 points gives you Royal Guard Pilot + Push the Limit + Autothrusters with a point left over for initiative, or an Omicron Group Pilot + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade. If you don't like those, there are of course a lot of other possible options there.

Fel loves ptl, autothrusters, and Stealth

Vader loves his boost

And in order to squeeze in echo sacrifices had to be made.

I did look at the shuttle and royal guard as options, but that kind of went against one of my objectives for this squad, which was high ps.

I think out of the options available with what you suggested, a shuttle with engine upgrade, or vader would be best.

Something a little more tanky.

I ran this with moderate success:

"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

It's based on my earlier concepts for "Vader's Girlfriend", which is what I called boosting Echo to PS11 using Vader. Before the TIE Advanced fix, it was difficult to justify adding a 30 point ship just to boost PS from 8 to 11, now it makes more sense, since Vader can pack a punch.

You have the restriction of range 2 if you need Echo to fire first, but that's easy to maintain with some good flying and thinking ahead.