This talent states that you can fire semi and full auto without bracing. Does it negate the -30 penalty for not bracing?

Are there rules for a suspensor type harness a la the film aliens and the smartgun harness. From a fluff point of view, something like this is described in the Eisenhorn novels

Recoil Gloves from the main rulebook.

40k history/canon Does inlcude (no doubt by now forgotton/forbidden) tech like Suspensors, which allowed people to carry heavy weapons as if they were basic weapons.

This talent states that you can fire semi and full auto without bracing. Does it negate the -30 penalty for not bracing?

It doesn't say so, so it doesn't.

Recoil Gloves from the main rulebook.

Those can only be used on basic weapons. You'd need the Auto-Braced trait, which some houserules credit Best Quality Power Armours with (not that you're very likely to obtain one, but...).

40k history/canon Does inlcude (no doubt by now forgotton/forbidden) tech like Suspensors, which allowed people to carry heavy weapons as if they were basic weapons.

I'd assume it's both existent and in use, though more in the Mechanicus' holdings and perhaps some elite units of the Guard - Antigrav technology isn't heretekal, it's just pretty rare.

Bring back the Spacemarines on sky surfboards i say!

You do not suffer the -30 penalty for firing a Heavy Weapon if you have Bulging Biceps. This talent frees you of the need to brace the weapon.

You do, in fact, suffer the -30 penalty.

"Firing a heavy weapon without bracing incurs a -30 penalty to hit and prohibits Semi-Auto and Full-Auto fire."

"Bulging biceps

You can fire a heavy weapon on semi- and full-auto fire modes without first bracing."

oh, another problem of RAW vs Common Sense.

What is the use of a Talent if you do not need it?

Yes, you can fire a heavy weapon without bracing and without Bulging Biceps, but i get a -30 penalty.

Now, WITH Bulging Biceps i can fire heavy weapons without bracing and still get the -30 penalty? where is the logic in that?

of course BB has to negate the -30 penalty.

Without Bulging Biceps you can only fire the weapon single shot at a -30.

With Bulging Biceps you can find the weapon single shot, semi or full auto at a -30.

How is this so hard?

Thaddius said:

What he said.

Yeah I would say that you would still get the -30. Just remember you would have the +20 from full auto so a grand total of -10 without have to waste a half action to brace. Fair trade I would say.

I asked my original question because although I agree that as read literally, bulging biceps does not negate the -30 for not bracing, I wondered if this was the intention of the talent (in addition to allowing FA fire). It seems that there is a bit of disagreement. I think I will play with the -30 unless confirmed otherwise officially.

Regarding the suspensor harness query, I meant some kind of frame harness like the ones Drake and Vasquez use in Aliens. I did not mean the anti grav suspensors you could buy in an earlier version of the tabletop game to negate the movement penalties associated to heavy weapons. Something easy enough to create rules for though. I always struggle to put an approriate costs against things like this.

antony131073 said:

I'd say that such a piece of kit should be very bulky and heavy, and reduce movement and mobility (i.e. agility-based rolls) substantially. I would also suggest that rather than negating the penalty it should reduce it, perhaps to -10, -20 if firing a burst. With all these disadvantages, you could probably justify not making it extortionately expensive. Maybe 250 thrones? I'm not so good at the pricing myself )

How about this

-10 AG, you may not run or charge. You do not need to brace to fire a heavy weapon on SA or full auto (although you still retain the -30 to hit). Cost 350 thrones

Khorne-ucopia said:

Most Heavy Weapons have a pretty high Range value, so Rambo here will most likely find himself firing on Short Range, giving himself an additional +10 modifier. So, without Bulging Biceps, a single shot at -20 is all you can do. With Bulging Biceps you can let the lead fly with a Full Auto Burst at unmodified BS.

Pretty good, I think.

In the space marines game I run, there is an example of a suspensor unit:

SuspensSor Unit
a Suspensor Unit is a large harness which allows certain heavy weapons to be fired more effectively on the move. Tthe weapon weight is halved for encumbrance and may be fired without bracing, but the weapon range is also halved. Aadditionally, the weapon gains the Iinaccurate trait. Aammo is also quadrupled, due to backpack feed. wt 5k, cost 1000thrones, avail V Rare

By no means "official" but I dont see how adding something similar to your game would be way off base. I would also give a minus to WS with one of these strapped on. I would also say that Power Armor should negate some of the -30 penalty as well.

In my game, power armour can be used as if it was a tripod, to brace the weapon. You still have to brace to fire without penalty, though.

Cardinalsin said:

It should be noted that the Rulebook doesn't strictly define what needs to be done in order to brace a heavy weapon, and while the bipod and tripod in The Inquisitor's Handbook are obvious choices for many heavy weapons (as are things like walls, railings and other stable platforms), what 'bracing' requires should vary based on the heavy weapon in question and the person wielding it - a man with a missile launcher will brace it differently to how he'd treat a heavy bolter, for example...