I don't know why some people insist that an interceptor is impossible to get into the forward arc of a large ship. A large ships forward arc covers 3x the area of a small ship. It's massive and not hard to cover that much area forcing the interceptor into flight lanes you want it to go. Furthermore gunner or Luke at range one on Han does a great job at removing those focus or evade tokens from interceptors even outside the arc with auto thrusters. 4 atk die with rerolls and focus/focus lite that fires 2x is a going to land at least one hit each turn. And seriously stealth device disappeared from the meta for a reason ffg created several ways to strip stealth device without even needing to land a single hit on fel. You can still create a fat Han list with lt Blount and another ship and still be highly competitive vs every list in game.

Have you actually played a handful of games with your purposed list? Have you played against the Fel35 with any list?

I would never play a turret, but I can confirm that two Bounty Hunters will still be able to draw their wide arcs to him

Fell might well be a terror in the current, incredibly predictable 2 ship meta when properly escorted. Having only two ships to work against are going to make his life incredibly easy because you can't block him without sacrificing half your list's offensive capability or set up firing arc coverage with any degree of efficiency. On the bright side, maybe we'll stop seeing so many **** 2 ship lists

Ten Numb, Veteran Insticts, Mangler Canon

Unless you roll all 3 blank red dices, Uncle Soontir will received a critical hit, no matter he is at range three, behind an asteroid, with Auto-Thrusters and Stealth Device, and even Ten is drunk in his cockpit

This is the first and only counter to Soontir anyone mentioned here because:

a) moves after Soontir and has the potential to outmaneuver hin

b) does cost exactly as much as Soontir (35points usually)

c) does pretty much guarantee a hit. If you are really keen on it you could add in Accuracy corrector for a 100% crit!

Do I really have to start yammering on about Stress Wess again?

The way to beat fel is stress, give him more than one stress and you can take him down quick, even if he does get the 1 free focus.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

I don't know why some people insist that an interceptor is impossible to get into the forward arc of a large ship. A large ships forward arc covers 3x the area of a small ship. It's massive and not hard to cover that much area forcing the interceptor into flight lanes you want it to go. Furthermore gunner or Luke at range one on Han does a great job at removing those focus or evade tokens from interceptors even outside the arc with auto thrusters. 4 atk die with rerolls and focus/focus lite that fires 2x is a going to land at least one hit each turn. And seriously stealth device disappeared from the meta for a reason ffg created several ways to strip stealth device without even needing to land a single hit on fel. You can still create a fat Han list with lt Blount and another ship and still be highly competitive vs every list in game.

I played two games yesterday against two gentlemen both flying YT-2400s. Both lists sported HLCs but no Outrider titles for the exact reason you mentioned above, that getting an interceptor into their front firing arc wouldn't be a problem. After all was said and done, my squints only got shot once in the forward arc. Interceptors are a lot more squirly than I think most people give them credit for. I usually try to always move second if I can with my lists either by taking high PS ships (another feather in Fel's cap) or by losing initiative/going second. I don't care as much about shooting as I do about maneuvering, keeping out of those front arcs are way more important with Fel. Anything I can do to extend the game gives me a higher chance to take out Han since he has the advantage in HP.

Also, stripping focus or evades is exactly why i take focus and evades, to mitigate attacks. More to the point, if your only concentrating on Fel and he manages to take more than 2-3 turns to kill, the rest of the list can take pot shots against Han all day. The problem with Han is that he is expensive and limits the total damage output his entire squad, but that is another discussion entirely.

Look, I'm not saying Fel can beat Han or even that Fel is the best. I am saying that Fel and his flying circus is a force to be reckoned with. Also, everyone should trying flying interceptors with hull upgrades instead of stealth devices, it is surprising how often that upgrade helps.

Edit: Fel hates icon cannons more than life itself, forgot to add that in there.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

stress wes, stress wes

engine, instincts stress wes

stress wes, stress wes

push the limit? dead

Look, I'm not saying Fel can beat Han or even that Fel is the best.

Fel is no doubt going to be quite good with AT on him. But the idea that it will be impossible to get him into arc is also overstating the case.

Anyone who's tried and failed... Well that's at best questionable, because until now no one has ever needed to bother getting anything into the arc of a YT, so it's not a skill people have bothered to develop.

Look, I'm not saying Fel can beat Han or even that Fel is the best.

Fel is no doubt going to be quite good with AT on him. But the idea that it will be impossible to get him into arc is also overstating the case.

Anyone who's tried and failed... Well that's at best questionable, because until now no one has ever needed to bother getting anything into the arc of a YT, so it's not a skill people have bothered to develop.

This is a really good note as well. In the example I used above both of the YT-2400s couldn't get me in their arcs, sure sometime I bet I smartly outmaneuvered them but perhaps it is also because my opponents have never had to fly their ships as aggressively as they needed to.

I will also mention this however, if you are moving after your opponent you have a better chance to avoid the front arc through the squint's amazing extra movement actions. Sometimes the best option is to sacrifice the shot and instead focus on getting lined up on the next turn.

I will also mention this however, if you are moving after your opponent you have a better chance to avoid the front arc through the squint's amazing extra movement actions.

Consider how big the range 2 arc on a YT is... Using vassal I can fit 5 Tie Interceptors in the R2 arc in places that they can not get out of the range 2 arc with a boost/barrel roll.

So yes a well played Interceptor is going to make life hard for a YT, and that's a very good thing IMO. We need something to shake up the meta. If this just means the end of the Fat Han/Corran list, then I'll be happy. But I don't think this is going to make Interceptors broken by any means.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

Or FFG could change the tournament and not have mirror matches. 1st place for each faction plus a 1st place overall.

Okay maybe except for Scum & Villainy. They can beat themselves up . We don't need their kind here.

They also lack the PS to get out ahead of the Whisper and Fel with all but one of their maneuverable ships.

The YT-2400 is the only Rebel ship that can't have a PS10 or higher pilot and it can hit PS9.

stress wes, stress wes

engine, instincts stress wes

stress wes, stress wes

push the limit? dead

It's an interesting Idea to solve a problem with one of the underwhelming ships in X-Wing, the X-Wing.

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade + R3-A2 (36)

Yes giving mulitple stresses to a Sontir will be his demise, Wes Janson can only give out 1 stress to Fel. The use or Push The Limit will be a risk to Sontir and with a Stress droid floating around could leave Fel with only using 1 Action. If you Stress Wes to Stress Sontir you will be giving the upper hand to Sontir as he can clear that stress so much faster and out maneuver the slower X-Wing. Now comes the trouble of what eles learks out there with Fel35. Here is the List I've been playing to great Success:

Soontir Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Stealth Device (35)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Expose + Experimental Interface + Darth Vader + Ysanne Isard + Rebel Captive (63)

This Squad comes in at 98 points and often wins the option to give away initiative in case there are other PS 9's out there. Sontir is best when moving last so he can double up those actions and get out of almost any arc. Wes will counter that advantage and punish him at the same time, but will get murdered by the Bigger brother of Sontir, The Admiral. Wes with his 2 agility 3 hull and 2 shield will simply melt under a 4 dice attack of the Admiral followed by a Vader hit.

ficklegreendice, I have a lot of respect for your opinions on these boards. All I ask is that you play your Wes vs this squad and see if it is as easy as you think it is.

Oh yeah, Wes by himself would get murdered by 100 points of squad

When I find someone running the cancerous 2 ship build when the meta should have varied from that point, I'll be sure to send Wes, Biggs, and 3 Bandits against them until they get a clue

Against the two ship build, sacrifices generally have to be made, but because they're so binary you're going to win if you can take out the right part. Against Soontir + Admiral, you can throw away Wes for Soontir and melt the decimator just fine. In fact, that's the basic strategy against all the phantom as well. Wes is the enabler of rebel ships that would otherwise be shafted by hyper-mobile arc-dodgers, but who have the dice to take on fatties.

Now games are never as done a deal as forum text would ever suggest (cause there'd be no point in playing), but if soontir's grabbing a shot on a squaddie and you've done your positioning properly (i.e, not blocked Wes) you are basically guaranteed a shot with EU. It's not guaranteed damage, but it will at the very least force Soontir to fire 3 dice unmodified (At most) or neuter him completely if he pushed the limit.

that almost every other large based ship has to worry about to do anything. *gasp*

There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc...

1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship"

Falcon (turret), Lambda (no turret), Outrider (turret), Firespray (half-turret), Decimator (turret).

That is indeed every other large ship, sir.

Stressbot does seem like the best counter to Soontir. Sure, Fel gets his free focus token but he either took only one action or he pushed the limit and now has two stress tokens. You could also go with Stressbot and Flechette Torpedoes to guarantee that Soontir gets no actions next turn. The torpedoes wouldn't be my first pick but if I had two points left over and I'm concerned about the Baron I'd gladly take them over the initiative.

that almost every other large based ship has to worry about to do anything. *gasp*

There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc...

1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship"

Falcon (turret), Lambda (no turret), Outrider (turret), Firespray (half-turret), Decimator (turret).

That is indeed every other large ship, sir.

Firespray's not a half-turret, it's two full arcs

Yes, the difference is huge especially it auto-thursters makes the impact this thread is dreading (and also because the 360 arc offers infinitely more coverage because it has no blindspots)

minor point, but yeah. Once the Aggressor comes out, we'll have a 50/50 split of arcs and turrets on large ships

that almost every other large based ship has to worry about to do anything. *gasp*

There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc...

1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship"

Falcon (turret), Lambda (no turret), Outrider (turret), Firespray (half-turret), Decimator (turret).

That is indeed every other large ship, sir.

barn34 already responded that he hadn't meant to have the word "large" in there. He's since edited the post that Vanor is responding to.

That line now reads:

well, you're actually going to have to try and use that forward facing arc that almost every other ship has to worry about to do anything.

Oh yeah, Wes by himself would get murdered by 100 points of squad

When I find someone running the cancerous 2 ship build when the meta should have varied from that point, I'll be sure to send Wes, Biggs, and 3 Bandits against them until they get a clue

Against the two ship build, sacrifices generally have to be made, but because they're so binary you're going to win if you can take out the right part. Against Soontir + Admiral, you can throw away Wes for Soontir and melt the decimator just fine. In fact, that's the basic strategy against all the phantom as well. Wes is the enabler of rebel ships that would otherwise be shafted by hyper-mobile arc-dodgers, but who have the dice to take on fatties.

Now games are never as done a deal as forum text would ever suggest (cause there'd be no point in playing), but if soontir's grabbing a shot on a squaddie and you've done your positioning properly (i.e, not blocked Wes) you are basically guaranteed a shot with EU. It's not guaranteed damage, but it will at the very least force Soontir to fire 3 dice unmodified (At most) or neuter him completely if he pushed the limit.

Dropping EU on Wes and changing Biggs into Wedge generally has the same net effect. Nobody shoots at Wes while Wedge is on the board. Wes and Stressbot have been my heroes during this whole wave 4 meta for many of the reasons you describe.

High PS

Ability to arc dodge

Need three hit reults to have a chance to get a hit through

I find it ironic that the issues that almost all ships had with Fat Han (especially Paul Heaver's build) are causing the sky to fall now that turreted ships will have the some problems dealing with Fel. At least Fel has to keep his target in arc and only has 3 or 4 hit points instead of 13.

He's since edited the post that Vanor is responding to.

I'm pretty sure that Unfairbanana was making a joke, by listing them in the order he did, then every other large ship does fit the comment.

Soontir with Autothrusters is definitely strong. But one successful block can leave him tokenless and that leaves him dead in the water; Autothrusters or not.

that almost every other large based ship has to worry about to do anything. *gasp*

There are currently 5 large ships out. Of those 5, 3 have turrets and 1 has a secondary arc...

1 out of 5 that have to use their front arc to do anything is hardly what I'd consider "almost every other large ship"

Falcon (turret), Lambda (no turret), Outrider (turret), Firespray (half-turret), Decimator (turret).

That is indeed every other large ship, sir.

barn34 already responded that he hadn't meant to have the word "large" in there. He's since edited the post that Vanor is responding to.

That line now reads:

well, you're actually going to have to try and use that forward facing arc that almost every other ship has to worry about to do anything.

Thanks. *virtual bro fist*

Oh yeah, Wes by himself would get murdered by 100 points of squad

When I find someone running the cancerous 2 ship build when the meta should have varied from that point, I'll be sure to send Wes, Biggs, and 3 Bandits against them until they get a clue

Against the two ship build, sacrifices generally have to be made, but because they're so binary you're going to win if you can take out the right part. Against Soontir + Admiral, you can throw away Wes for Soontir and melt the decimator just fine. In fact, that's the basic strategy against all the phantom as well. Wes is the enabler of rebel ships that would otherwise be shafted by hyper-mobile arc-dodgers, but who have the dice to take on fatties.

Now games are never as done a deal as forum text would ever suggest (cause there'd be no point in playing), but if soontir's grabbing a shot on a squaddie and you've done your positioning properly (i.e, not blocked Wes) you are basically guaranteed a shot with EU. It's not guaranteed damage, but it will at the very least force Soontir to fire 3 dice unmodified (At most) or neuter him completely if he pushed the limit.

I think Wes vs Fel is harder to quantify, mainly because Fel is way more maneuverable than Wes. If Wes is rolling VI his killing ability is weakened. All interceptors with PTL become harder to nail down with out boosting or barrel rolling. The other thing to note and this is a big one, if you stress Fel via R3-A2 you also stress yourself forcing you to either play with stress or pull a green maneuver if you want to continue to harass Fel. Finally, if you stress Fel he always gains another focus and he can use the stress you just sent his way to modify his rolls that turn or alternatively, he can hold onto that focus and lose it to Wes and still not have anything to worry about.

The thesis here isn't wrong, but I feel that there needs to be a perfect storm of events to really hamper Fel. Waiting and planning for him to use PtL to double stress him makes sense, however once you deal him a stress he still manages to benefit. Lets say you do lock him down, every time you stress him you end up helping him out.

You're not waiting for a perfect storm, nor are you actually trying to kill him with Wes. You're just trying to peg him once so that the next turn he becomes easy pickings.

Wes' entire goal in life is to mitigate hyper arc-dodgers until they're manageable for the rest of the squad. This happens a.) because of the stress completely shutting down PTL or ACD and b.) his ability knocks off focus and TLs before the target can get a shot.

Any damage you get at that point is just bonus, the main point is to set up for the next turn where you're shooting at a 30+ point PS 9 Tie fighter rather than a four green focus & evade monster. If Fell doesn't PTL, great. Then he's just a PS 9 Alpha squadron with only one post maneuver displacement. You only want to R3-A2 when he PTLs, because that one focus isn't going to matter **** on the next turn where he'll still have a stress and no action/no way to trigger his ability (debris, I guess).

On that note, don't actively try to chase down the likes of Soontir or Whisper. What you do is maneuver to cover the bulk of the formation, knowing that you'll have a 45 degree change to work with in case you guess wrong. At long range, you'll have a wider arc but probably won't do any damage with unmodified dice, yet it won't matter because the moment you draw arc you are guaranteed some form of return. Neither Wes nor R3 require hits to activate.

Point is, Wes doesn't play like the twitchy and not very interesting wave 5 meta. Larger squads require a lot more foresight and prediction rather than moving last and course-correcting X number of times. Similarly, you're not trying to one-shot an enemy, you're setting up for an overwhelming advantage in future turns.

Once the arc-dodger is dead, Wes loses some of his utility but he keeps his ability (pilot crit pendig) to reduce damage taken by the squad by slapping target-locks off of decimators and the like.

If an X-Wing has an Engine Upgrade, the greens on the X-Wing are actually pretty good for staying behind a double stressed Interceptor that's trying to shed stress.

If an X-Wing has an Engine Upgrade, the greens on the X-Wing are actually pretty good for staying behind a double stressed Interceptor that's trying to shed stress.

If it has 2 stress yes I would agree a PS 10 or more with an EU would be able to stay behind the Interceptor. If the Squint has only one the hard turn 2 combined with BR and Boost will make it harder, also the forward 4 green will develop space.