You're not waiting for a perfect storm, nor are you actually trying to kill him with Wes. You're just trying to peg him once so that the next turn he becomes easy pickings.

Wes' entire goal in life is to mitigate hyper arc-dodgers until they're manageable for the rest of the squad. This happens a.) because of the stress completely shutting down PTL or ACD and b.) his ability knocks off focus and TLs before the target can get a shot.

Any damage you get at that point is just bonus, the main point is to set up for the next turn where you're shooting at a 30+ point PS 9 Tie fighter rather than a four green focus & evade monster. If Fell doesn't PTL, great. Then he's just a PS 9 Alpha squadron with only one post maneuver displacement. You only want to R3-A2 when he PTLs, because that one focus isn't going to matter **** on the next turn where he'll still have a stress and no action/no way to trigger his ability (debris, I guess).

On that note, don't actively try to chase down the likes of Soontir or Whisper. What you do is maneuver to cover the bulk of the formation, knowing that you'll have a 45 degree change to work with in case you guess wrong. At long range, you'll have a wider arc but probably won't do any damage with unmodified dice, yet it won't matter because the moment you draw arc you are guaranteed some form of return. Neither Wes nor R3 require hits to activate.

Point is, Wes doesn't play like the twitchy and not very interesting wave 5 meta. Larger squads require a lot more foresight and prediction rather than moving last and course-correcting X number of times. Similarly, you're not trying to one-shot an enemy, you're setting up for an overwhelming advantage in future turns.

Once the arc-dodger is dead, Wes loses some of his utility but he keeps his ability (pilot crit pendig) to reduce damage taken by the squad by slapping target-locks off of decimators and the like.

I still think your waiting for the perfect storm, you want Fel in arc, with stress. I don't disagree with the ability to knock off focus/evade/TLs, that has always been a pretty powerful ability, but everything else seems very situational. Mainly because a good interceptor is a total pain in the ass to nail down, even with a higher pilot skill ship. Basically, your going to have to mind read your opponent or push him into a board edge. There is a lot of supposition here, no offense but I feel this is a little to far into a vacuum. We're not taking into account Fel or Wes' backup, which will make a massive difference.

As a guy who plays Fel a lot, I'm way more afraid of ion than I am of stress. The best part of Interceptors is how easy it is to deal with it, including the rather amazing green 4 forward.

I don't really need Fel in arc with stress (as I said above, he'd just be a high PS alpha), I just need him in arc. If I can just do the bare minimum of cutting down the damage his 32 bare minimum points could inflict on my squad, then Wes is doing his job.

I take no offense to your observation that my claims seem to take place in vacuum. We're on the boards, after all, everything we say is in vacuum

I mean, I can tell you it works amazingly in practice, but that's in my practice against my opponents making it anecdotal at best.

All I can really say for certain is that, mechanically, the combo is sound (course correction for firing arcs, how the stress mechanic works against action-dependent glass cannons, how Wes' ability affects the game even if he does no damage...) and that no one should have any reserves about putting it on the table

*no reserves unless you don't enjoy this kind of list. If you don't then there's no purpose to it, no matter how effective it can or cannot be

I don't really need Fel in arc with stress (as I said above, he'd just be a high PS alpha), I just need him in arc. If I can just do the bare minimum of cutting down the damage his 32 bare minimum points could inflict on my squad, then Wes is doing his job.

I take no offense to your observation that my claims seem to take place in vacuum. We're on the boards, after all, everything we say is in vacuum

I mean, I can tell you it works amazingly in practice, but that's in my practice against my opponents making it anecdotal at best.

All I can really say for certain is that, mechanically, the combo is sound (course correction for firing arcs, how the stress mechanic works against action-dependent glass cannons, how Wes' ability affects the game even if he does no damage...) and that no one should have any reserves about putting it on the table

*no reserves unless you don't enjoy this kind of list. If you don't then there's no purpose to it, no matter how effective it can or cannot be

I have absolutely no hate for your list, and I do think Wes could be a great counter to Fel. I myself am not so worried about your particular build though, but that in no way negates it's potential effectiveness. That's why we are engaged in a good debate:)

The strength of Fel is in his dial and I have seen Fel do some absolutely amazing moves. However,If you manage to shut that down, even with three green dice, he won't last long. I maintain that is not an easy feat, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

stress wes, stress wes

engine, instincts stress wes

stress wes, stress wes

push the limit? dead

If you risk getting shot by Wes, you push only if certain that he won't get a shot. At range 3 AT and an evade keep you pretty safe, and you can shed stress much more easily than him. At shorter ranges, you can arc dodge him pretty easily even with EU because Barrel roll is superior up close, and then Wes is toast.

Ten Numb with Mangler and VI is both cheaper than Wes and more maneuvrable up close.

So while smart players can very well handle wes, Ten will be a real problem!

I have absolutely no hate for your list, and I do think Wes could be a great counter to Fel. I myself am not so worried about your particular build though, but that in no way negates it's potential effectiveness. That's why we are engaged in a good debate:)

The strength of Fel is in his dial and I have seen Fel do some absolutely amazing moves. However,If you manage to shut that down, even with three green dice, he won't last long. I maintain that is not an easy feat, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I would agree with everything here.

I will always stand by Stress Wess, but I am also a huge fan of what the Baron can do (personally preferred him and Jakes to the maneuverability of the phantom). In the end, I suppose it'll all come down to the table

And really, that's for the best. If X-wing truly came down to rock-paper-scissors in list match-up, we should have all moved on by now.

I am sorry if my claims ever came out as hyperbolic and insinuating of an easy victory, I was just trying to counteract the doomsaying

Mainly, I just have two things to say about the upcoming Super Baron

1.) I want to try and do is to assure people that there are non-turret options that can work (not will 100% of the time, cause that'd just be snore-worthy)

2.) I still can't see how Soontir, even in all his newfangled glory, would ever have the same meta shaping impact as the phantom (and, by extension, why everyone is so worried).

P.S: I also like the idea of the mangler on one of the most maligned pilots in the game. New ten gets a ten out of ten from me (also, V.I mangler nub just so happens to cost as much as 3 bandits...)

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

stress wes, stress wes

engine, instincts stress wes

stress wes, stress wes

push the limit? dead

If you risk getting shot by Wes, you push only if certain that he won't get a shot. At range 3 AT and an evade keep you pretty safe, and you can shed stress much more easily than him. At shorter ranges, you can arc dodge him pretty easily even with EU because Barrel roll is superior up close, and then Wes is toast.

Ten Numb with Mangler and VI is both cheaper than Wes and more maneuvrable up close.

So while smart players can very well handle wes, Ten will be a real problem!

If Wes' presence is keeping Soontir to a single action, then Wes has served his purpose. Soontir with a single action isn't that scary.

Vader decimators are brutal as well to him.

I honestly see this as a problem not a solution. When the best answer to a ship in a faction is another ship from the same faction you sacrifice variety.

stress wes, stress wes

engine, instincts stress wes

stress wes, stress wes

push the limit? dead

If you risk getting shot by Wes, you push only if certain that he won't get a shot. At range 3 AT and an evade keep you pretty safe, and you can shed stress much more easily than him. At shorter ranges, you can arc dodge him pretty easily even with EU because Barrel roll is superior up close, and then Wes is toast.

Ten Numb with Mangler and VI is both cheaper than Wes and more maneuvrable up close.

So while smart players can very well handle wes, Ten will be a real problem!

If Wes' presence is keeping Soontir to a single action, then Wes has served his purpose. Soontir with a single action isn't that scary.

What about this list here, should counter Phantoms, Fel and Turrets pretty well... Being constructive for once.

And... Yes Fickle, for Farlanders 36 points we could also take Stress Wes instead!

A NEW HOPE (WITHOUT TURRETS)

100 points

PILOTS

Jake Farrell (28)

A-Wing (24), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Veteran Instincts (1), Autothrusters (2), Outmaneuver (3)

Ten Numb (36)

B-Wing (31), “Mangler” Cannon (4), Veteran Instincts (1)

Keyan Farlander (36)

B-Wing (29), Advanced Sensors (3), Stay on Target (2), B-Wing/E2 (1), Intelligence Agent (1)

No on that i have to disagree, because Soontir will start using ptl whenever he is sure Wes can't get a shot, and that can happen real fast if Soontir gets into a real Dogfight with him. He is worth his points if he kills Soontir or enables someone to do so, which is not always given

I wouldn't bank on the opposite scenario being a done deal either. Part of the whole point of playing Stress Wes is realizing that it's never going to be as maneuverable as an interceptor, and you as the player should be engineering situations in which this never comes to pass (generally through manipulation of firing arcs, since Fell knows how to dodge them but does not know how Wes will maneuver to cover blindspots). The Fell player, of course, will try to do the opposite and break up the formation to get at the juicy bits inside. Neither scenario is a reliable outcome without first knowing tons of contextual information (positions, players, ship facing, remaining hull/shield...)

The done deal is that Soontir cannot afford to ignore Wes even for a moment, because the X-wing Pilot's abilities run counter to his, and Wes' squad can't afford to let Soontir run free (unless Biggs is feeling fine, then you can give it a turn or two). Think of Wes not as a lone badass, but more of a force-multiplier like a Howler that works by making the enemy garbage instead of buffing your friendlies

*

As for the list, once again I have to slap myself for forgetting int agent exists. For some reason I completely forgot about it after running it on Sigmas, only to be reminded by the 2nd place in last sunday's tournie running them on HLC fringers. And now there it is again with one of my favorite pilots.

That one sounds like fun to play

Tried AT plus SD on fel, ter and tetran against a mango equipped outrider, my mate was not happy as he was getting hits and crits with every turn only to watch my guys evade it all and wipe out his fleet.

I can say without AT I would of lost no doubt just relying on four green dice Isn't enough to keep interceptors alive, as it was I lost fel and had ter reduced to one hit point, but I took out the outrider two headhunters and an x-wing.

Get fel in arc the green dice will betray him otherwise he's going to hang around a while.

So here is a combination of all the ideas to counter the Fel35

Ten Numb + “Mangler” Cannon + Veteran Instincts (36)

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade + R3-A2 (36)

Tycho Celchu + Chardaan Refit + Veteran Instincts + A-Wing Test Pilot + Push the Limit (28)

It is 3 PS10 ships and if the was a way to get Autothrusters on Tyco I would do it. On paper seems like a great counter until I show up to a tournament and face anything with out a Whisper or Fel in it , but you never know I've had success with 3 ship Rebel builds in the past.

So here is a combination of all the ideas to counter the Fel35

Ten Numb + “Mangler” Cannon + Veteran Instincts (36)

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade + R3-A2 (36)

Tycho Celchu + Chardaan Refit + Veteran Instincts + A-Wing Test Pilot + Push the Limit (28)

It is 3 PS10 ships and if the was a way to get Autothrusters on Tyco I would do it. On paper seems like a great counter until I show up to a tournament and face anything with out a Whisper or Fel in it , but you never know I've had success with 3 ship Rebel builds in the past.

I think I love this list. I have no idea how it would play but I think it would be hilarious.

Just expanding on the Stress every problem ship out thing:

Tycho Celchu + A-Wing Test Pilot + Chardaan Refit + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters + Push the Limit (30)

Horton Salm + R2-D6 + Flechette Torpedoes + Engine Upgrade + Autoblaster Turret + Veteran Instincts (35)

Wes Janson + R3-A2 + Flechette Torpedoes + Veteran Instincts + Munitions Failsafe (35)

Another list of 3 10's and a way to get 3 stresses on a ship. Even a 58point Dash would never have the focus since Wes just steals it. Or If you want to get Horn on the 10train:

Tycho Celchu + A-Wing Test Pilot + Chardaan Refit + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters + Push the Limit (30)

Airen Cracken + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade (24)

Corran Horn + R2-D2 + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade (46)

You need to be careful not to specialize though because if fel doesn't show up you could struggle against what does.

any self respecting mini-swarm plus Fel would tear those lists apart.

As for the list, once again I have to slap myself for forgetting int agent exists. For some reason I completely forgot about it after running it on Sigmas, only to be reminded by the 2nd place in last sunday's tournie running them on HLC fringers. And now there it is again with one of my favorite pilots.

That one sounds like fun to play

Every ship with lower pilot skill that has lots of movement options and a crew slot is a good option for Intel agent. Stay on Target makes it even funnier. You look what PS 7+ will do and adjust your movement to counter it, so the only arc-dodging they can do is with Decloak/Boost/Barrel roll. And as long as you get a shot, on Farlander that works every turn. I used it to counter Echo/Whisper and it was pretty good, so it might also work with Fel. On high PS Interceptors it's also a very easy block that denies actions. Against lower Skill it avoids you getting blocked, although on Farlander stressing himself anyway you don't always care for blocks!