Does anyone else enjoy playing with 'underdog' lists.

I often play with characterful stuff that i *know* could be better but would lose some of that theme and i also play with X wings when i know B wings are pretty much better because i just like X wings (ditto A wings before the fix)

When i used to play a lot of 40k i used to play an Imperial guard army for years when they were possibly the weakest army in the game (ditto dark elves in fantasy)..

Why?

Because if i took an A list there was not as much satisfaction. Winning with Space Marines was never the challenge that winning with guard was.

Sure i never won the majority of games but you felt when you won with that 'underdog' list you really earned that victory

Oh, I get it and do enjoy it. I've got a perverse bent to try to make all the "crummy" things work in a list. I did play Orcs and Goblins in Warhammer Fantasy all through 7th Ed. Even that tried my patience, though.

I get some of the same. I don't really enjoy playing the same thing as everyone else. So when I go to a tournament and see 4 out of 5 lists are Decimators, it makes me think that I don't want to fly one, and that I want to come up with some way of beating it.

In 40k I played Space Marines, but mostly because I love Space Marines, although I painted mine as Blood Ravens, and not Smurf's (Ultramarines for those not in the know.) But I built a fluffy list with 3 platoons of Marines as the core. Rather than the 2 teams of scouts most people prefered for 5th.

Likewise in X-Wing I like to play lists that I think you'd actually see if this were real. But that does mean a lot of the lists are fluffy because you saw ships mixed together so often in the movies.

I couldn't agree with you more. I love playing the underdog or support in every game; be it video or board. In fact, I plan on bringing an underdog list to FFG Event Center Store Championship this Saturday. This will be my first time playing competitively and my aim is to win it. I have practiced extensively against cookie cutter builds and feel I've got at least a 50/50 chance against any list. Wish me luck!

I'll admit that my current list is 4 Tie Bombers. It's a nice mix of being something that everyone says is terrible combined with something that is made to destroy large ships.

I had a local player stop by my table. He mentioned that he won the last local event with a Fat Han and Super Dash. He looked at my list and said, "Oh, you have an @#$hole list!". I just had to do a double-take. He takes a Fat Han and Super Dash and I'm the @#$@#$@?????

I agree. I'm mindful of the meta but I bring what I want to tournaments. I fly Imperial Kath Scarlet often and that's a downright error in judgement. I just like the ships I like and I'm only there to have fun. I'm already a bad ass lady, I don't require more acrylic tokens to prove it.

I am in love with HWK 290. That certainly doesn't help my case.

I do deliberately restrict myself sometimes. But mainly to learn new ships. I guess there's some satisfaction there if I pull off a win, but mostly I'm just trying to get better and learn new things.

Example: in the pre-rebel aces era, I played about 6-8 games with pure A-Wing lists. I lost most of my games, some of them in resounding fashion. However, in the process of those losses I learned a ton about the limitations and strengths of that ship, especially getting comfortable with the dial and running them with push the limit. I learned I don't enjoy going overboard on missiles. I learned when to turtle up (focus+evade), when to NOT push the limit (to set up for a K-turn) and when to try and sneak out of arc and when to drive right up into range 1 and blast away.

Now, with Chardaan Refit and A-Wing Test Pilot (Outmaneuver, let me count the ways I love you), A-Wings are probably my best ship in the mixed build I'm currently running.

Using the underdogs is the best way to learn.

I don't think that any ship is worthless and like Vanor, I hate playing what everyone else is playing. So, I come to these forums, pick a random ''this ship needs fixin!'' thread and work from there.

I'd love to play an X-wing list just to show that they are good, but I'm fixated on the Tie Bombers at the moment. Soon, it will be the Scyks. Next, it will be the the Tie Advanced. So.....they sit on the side for now, but I do think they are decent ships. I'm wanting to try Porkins with Stay On Target.

I love underdog lists. Be it Magic or here. The satisfaction of beating netdeck 7364884 with an original list is priceless.

My all time favourite magic deck had you remove cards from the graveyard from play before you were allowed to attack, you had to remove cards from the graveyard to activate creatures and then there were creatures that sent cards from graveyard back to your hand. So basically you weren't allowed to do anything for a turn or thirty until I could attack you. .

I definitely play with the underdog (and thematic/themed) lists in just about every game I play and actually prefer them to "a list to win". As had been mentioned earlier in the thread, playing a "sub-optimal" list and winning with them is a.) a challenge, b.) generally takes more skill, and c.) is very satisfying when you win especially against a min/maxed optimized list.

I think my best use of an underdog list was when I was still playing Heavy Gear Blitz. For those of you who know the game I played PAK (Port Arthur Korps). It was a mish-mash of out-of-date equipment with limited choices. I swept the tournament through the use of creative maneuvering and combined arms. It was a blast, all my opponents had fun and walked away with a greater respect for the army. One person in particular walked away muttering "I didn't know you could DO that..."

I'm more into gaming for fun and not the win. For me, anytime I can put models on the table and play, I win.

Playing underdog lists allows you to blame the list for losses. Not a good longterm strategy for enjoying a multiplayer game. Competitive lists are a blast to play as well and after autothrusters they will be even more fun.

Playing underdog lists allows you to blame the list for losses. Not a good longterm strategy for enjoying a multiplayer game. Competitive lists are a blast to play as well and after autothrusters they will be even more fun.

So short, so true.

Not a good longterm strategy for enjoying a multiplayer game.

That all depends on why you're playing, how important winning is, and an inability to win even with a less than optimal list.

I usually do, because my friends don't have nearly as much experience as I do. Each friend-group only gets a few months to play. I'm the only one with the game, so either I'm playing with college friends or back-home friends, which translates to me having a lot more practice.

It's very tempting to stick Fel's Wrath in a tourney list, specifically so I can tell them I beat them with Fel's Wrath

specifically so I can tell them I beat them with Fel's Wrath

I had a beta version of a Forest mana in Magic, it was very dark and poorly printed. I called it the ugly forest and put it in every deck with green mana I could, that way when the game was over I could say I beat them with the ugly forest.

I generally don't like any of the "meta" favored elements. I form almost every list I can because I like one of the pilots or ships from the books or video games (which means that as an Imperial, I kinda lucked out, since my favorite character is Mara Jade, so putting her on a Decimator is a pretty meta thing right now - but I'll probably still do it even if that falls out of favor). I have two people I play with regularly - one who is meta focused to an extreme, the other is pretty similar to me - plays purely because he likes the ships, not because they have X number of dice or manuevers or whatever.

Im not *blaming* the list. I'm just aware that im not optimising my chances.

The key to any game that involves probability is clearly to stack it in your favour.

Think of it like a 'golf handicap' rather than blaming a bad list. I think i play pretty competently, like others i find playing with stuff a lot of people 'write off' teaches me a lot about the game and what that ship can and cannot do.

Not a good longterm strategy for enjoying a multiplayer game.

That all depends on why you're playing, how important winning is, and an inability to win even with a less than optimal list.

I agree. The guys I play with most weeks are flying casual. We take lists that we want to for the fun of it. I had to ask one of them to fly a Fat Han list as I ended up against one at a local tournament and needed to learn to fly against it. I still almost killed the thing, but he flew well.

With that said, I'm happy to lose a game at an event than face one all the time in my weekly games. I have more fun without it.

Also, even in the worlds of Overweight smugglers, and ghosts... List isn't the primary factor in win/lose. A poorly flown Fat Han will go down to a number of lists flown well.

I'm quite fond of the X-Wing, named pilots tend to make their way into a lot of the Rebel lists I play. I'm developing a love for Interceptors now that I've played enough to properly use the boost and roll but nobody around here plays turreted ships that much so that doesn't entirely count.

I did beat a guy's tournament list with Wedge, Wes, and Jan the other day. Wes and Jan had VI, Wedge had Opportunist. The entire goal was to throw six red dice against your agility (minus one). Managed to catch Whisper in a bad spot and I had the initiative, so I ended up throwing those red dice against a Phantom's two green, and only I had a Focus token. Lost Jan shortly after but it was a good game and I was very pleasantly surprised since I just threw it together because I like rolling large numbers of dice and haven't played a HWK in ages.

Right now, I'm super focused on a Krassis and three bombers list for my imps and a Vrill (no title) and 2 x-wings list for my rebels. I have a kind of juvenile, punk-rock (hahaha I wish) attitude about anything too popular, so even though the outrider is my favorite ship in Star Wars history, I refuse the play super Dash.

I lose a lot, but I lose on my own terms and with lists that I came up with.

I think a lot of the fun of this game is in list building. If I just fly what everyone else knows works, (Han, Dash, Whisper) this game would lose a lot of its appeal for me.

I'm quite fond of the X-Wing, named pilots tend to make their way into a lot of the Rebel lists I play. I'm developing a love for Interceptors now that I've played enough to properly use the boost and roll but nobody around here plays turreted ships that much so that doesn't entirely count.

I did beat a guy's tournament list with Wedge, Wes, and Jan the other day. Wes and Jan had VI, Wedge had Opportunist. The entire goal was to throw six red dice against your agility (minus one). Managed to catch Whisper in a bad spot and I had the initiative, so I ended up throwing those red dice against a Phantom's two green, and only I had a Focus token. Lost Jan shortly after but it was a good game and I was very pleasantly surprised since I just threw it together because I like rolling large numbers of dice and haven't played a HWK in ages.

Wow your Wes, Wedge, and Jan list is well timed - I was thinking of running Wes, Jake Farrel, and Jan, but was thinking of Wedge instead of Wes. Do you mind pasting your list here?

I think my best use of an underdog list was when I was still playing Heavy Gear Blitz.

Ah! That's where I saw your name! I knew I saw it somewhere but couldn't put my finger on it... So, another Blitz deserter, huh. This game was probably one of the worst contender for min/maxing. I tip you my hat for your victories with some underdogs. That's also why I was building a Caprice Force.

Playing underdog lists allows you to blame the list for losses. Not a good longterm strategy for enjoying a multiplayer game. Competitive lists are a blast to play as well and after autothrusters they will be even more fun.

If I lose, I'll never blame the list. Like I said earlier, I don't think that any ship is worthless and in the end, bringing the list is still my decision. But I don't get a particular satisfaction or bragging rights if I do win with it either. If I bring it to the table, it's because I think it has value and potential that I'll try to exploit.

Playing the ship that you see less can actually give you an edge. Everybody is ready and armed to face a turret or a Phantom... But nobody expect (the Spanish Inquisition!) Defenders, Advanced (until the fix) or Bombers. So, being an underdog is a quality of its own.

I think i'd like to qualify that i dont do somersaults round the table if i win with an underdog list either... i just feel i set myself a challenge, like playing on 'hard' setting on a video game.