One thing that is slightly buggging me with the shoot/move mechanic of the game is that you cannot coordinate ships in formation.

E.g 2 corvettes in close formation flanking around the giant triangle of doom.

Sequence of play would be

1. First corvette fires, then moves.

2. Vic fires back at the first corvette, then moves, showing a different facing to the second corvette.

3. Second corvette fires, but because the vic has moved, its on a different face, even though it was supposed to be in formation with the first vet.

4. Second corvette moves, but because the vic has moved, it cant maintain formation with the first vette, even though it should be in close formation

As you can see its a bit disjointed. What I propose is a mechanic for grouping ships together into divisions to effect better coord. Something like this

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 3 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, after all other ships have been activated."

I've restricted it to small ships as I believe that is fitting with the lore. As to going after all other sips, I believe (well Im in the Navy, so I know) it takes greater effort to coordinate ships in close formation during a battle than a single ship alone and unafraid.

We don't even have the game yet and you already wanna make changes?

From what I have seen and understand so far you'll be able to get the shot your looking for but it's gonna take the right placement of the ships to make it happen. Victories turn like slugs and depending on the commander maybe he doesn't wanna activate the Victory right away what if instead the Victories buddy Gladiator that was drifting off to the side and behind of the Victory activates and blasts your Corvettes tears down their defenses then the Victory activates and shoots to finish them off?

That was only an example.

The point I was trying to make was that ships in a division fight and move as one, syncronising their attacks and manouvres.

How about this

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only
"Declare up to 3 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, after all other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if able, and can combine their dice pool for each attack "

Not sure the game's scale can really handle capital ship divisions

we'd have to wait for "Star Wars: the whole dang navy"

Personally, given the complexity and attention to dial FFG poured into the rules governing every single ship from the lowly corvette to the Victory, I think they're fine acting as individuals.

Assuming you have more ships than the other player, you'd get this title free of charge. After the opponent has activated all of his ships, you get to activate however many ships you have remaining.

Corvette spam, ho!

The scale of this game is small enough that divisions won't work.

Assuming you have more ships than the other player, you'd get this title free of charge. After the opponent has activated all of his ships, you get to activate however many ships you have remaining.

I'm going to expand on this so its clear. Imp player brings vsd's and gets 2 or possible 3 ships in his fleet. The Rebel opts to try a corvette list and brings 5-6 and goes for a initiative build geared towards giving the Imp player first move. Imp player is like whoot I get to go first and we all know how important that is.

Rebel player watch a vsd activate. He activates a corvette, and the taking turns continues until Imp player is out of vsds. Then the rebel player moves his final 2 or 3 ships. Finally the 2 fleets converge and shots are fired in earnest. The rebel player's first corvette gets pounded but is still flying. Imp player's 1st vsd is probably also hurting. Now at this point maybe you are thinking the vsds being bigger are going to win, but let me remind you of a small factor. Rebels being numerically superior in the engagement can opt to retreat with that first corvette and possible save it while the vsds being so slow will likely be stuck in until the end. The rebel player also has a significant advantage in his squadrons for the most part being effective at both anti squadron stuff and anti cap ship stuff. So he can use that to his advantage to finish off damaged vsds. Then there is that small matter of commands. The vsds will be having to plan well in advance and possibly make poor choices for the late rounds while the corvettes can opt to react as needed.

One particularly nasty idea ive been floating around in my head is to take the corvette fleet with each corvette having a squadron or 2 paired with it. When the initial engagement happens some of the corvettes take commands to survive the initial exchange of fire, but the follow up corvettes could take the squadron command and use those escorting squadron to boost that initial alpha strike.

Now to be fair I think the vsd's have a lot going for them and I think the will fair well if played right against a corvette list. They will be clumsy in their commands, but that can be managed and they are slow which can make rotating zones difficult at best. In exchange for those weaknesses though they look like they will be much tankier and their commands other than maneuver will be more effective than the equivalent corvette versions (ie they will repair more with repair, move more squadron with the squadron command etc).

So in conclusion the larger number of capital ship idea might have merit by letting the nimbler weaker ships activate late to maximize their impact, but the smaller number of capital ship idea will have tankier ships that can deal more damage on a per ship basis and take more damage. So pick your poison and just realize that until the game is played enough for a meta to entrench its impossible for anyone to tell you what will be competitive.

Final thought, this is a game and like all games that attempt to simulate something it will be smooth and enjoyable is well designed, but it will always have some aspects of the game that will feel clunky, awkward, or poorly thought out. The mechanic the OP is observing is probably going to be one of those irksome bits, but he either has to look past it, work around it, or it will be a thorn for him when he plays this game. I for one applaud him for noticing that aspect, but I'm also glad its there, because if it wasnt this game could easily see a repeat of the swarm formation flying dominated meta that xwing had going on for quite awhile.

You know, I was going to eventually analyze the ships after I got all the rules properly summarized in the Armada at a Glance post

The Victory was to be Hits Like a Freight Train but Turns Like a Dump Truck

The Corvette was The largest ship in X-wing, the Tie Fighter of Armada

I see I am not alone in my assessment

You know, I was going to eventually analyze the ships after I got all the rules properly summarized in the Armada at a Glance post

The Victory was to be Hits Like a Freight Train but Turns Like a Dump Truck

The Corvette was The largest ship in X-wing, the Tie Fighter of Armada

I see I am not alone in my assessment

Im basically thinking the very common lists will be something like 2 vsds, 1 gsd, filler upgrades and squadrons for the imps. Some people will try to flip that to 1 vsd, 2 gsd, and we'll probably even see a few gsd only lists, but core set will likely push a lot of ppl to some form of vsd list.

The rebel lists though will be much more varied and I can easily see corvette swarms, assault frigate neb frigate combo lists, neb frigate squadron swarm lists, and a myriad of others that I'm simply not thinking of right now. My personal initial choice is going to be something with 2 nebs, good number of squadrons, and 1-2 corvettes. Not sure if that will be a great choice, but it seems to be financially a safe bet for my initial investment into the game. I will eventually get an assault frigate, but I might just wait for the wave 2 stuff to be announced instead if the initial plan seems to work fairly well.

If corvette swarms become a dominant meta though I will be deeply concerned that this game will not take off like xwing, because many xwingers will likely take a pass at another swarm meta. I think FFG may have seen that concern though and cooked in an anti swarm counter into the rules with the you go I go format.

Ok, noting the points above.

First, yes I am thinking about game so much and changing things in my head because I am desperately looking forward to playing it, and the fabled Q1 release date is taking FOREVER!

Ok, noting the sequence for ship activation pointed out, how about

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 3 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if able, and can combine their dice pool for each attack"

This now allows the division to focus its attacks, at an advantageous time, but restricts their ability to split fire.

Ok, noting the points above.

First, yes I am thinking about game so much and changing things in my head because I am desperately looking forward to playing it, and the fabled Q1 release date is taking FOREVER!

Ok, noting the sequence for ship activation pointed out, how about

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 3 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if able, and can combine their dice pool for each attack"

This now allows the division to focus its attacks, at an advantageous time, but restricts their ability to split fire.

Ok I think the problem with the whole division thing, is that it might work for Corvettes, but GSDs are also small based ships.

Imagine 3 GSDs (or even just 2) linked together with Expanded Launchers attacking as the first ship(s) activated in a round. That is 12 Dice (most of which are black) thrown at an enemy before they even had a chance to activate their ship. That is straight up overpowered.

Imagine Nebulons (also small base). 3 Red Dice each, if the Rebels have initiative that is 9 Red Dice over three attacks (which severely limits the use of defense tokens) against a single target, which averages out to 6.75 hits, enough to strip the shields and almost destroy a VSD. And that is only on their first attack, they still get to fire a second shot at another target.

Corvettes aren't quite as bad (they only get 2 Red Dice each), but at medium range they are just as bad as Neb-Bs.

The idea of Squadrons of lighter Cap Ships is pretty cool, but I think the ability to activate them all at the same time is too overpowered. But then having them activate all together after all opponents ships activate is actually a hindrance, not something that you would pay points for. Combining Dice for multiple attacks is also overpowered no matter where it is put. You are getting 3 turns worth of attacks in one turn, unless your opponent has initiative and somehow manages to kill two of your ships in one turn.

I think something more along the lines of:

Squadron Leader (10pts) - Whenever a ship with this upgrade reveals its Command Dial, two other friendly ships at Close Range may immediately gain a Command Token of the type revealed. For the duration of this turn each ship effected may increase its Command value by 1 for the purposes of determining how many Command Tokens may be stored.

Ok, noting the points above.

First, yes I am thinking about game so much and changing things in my head because I am desperately looking forward to playing it, and the fabled Q1 release date is taking FOREVER!

Ok, noting the sequence for ship activation pointed out, how about

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 3 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if able, and can combine their dice pool for each attack"

This now allows the division to focus its attacks, at an advantageous time, but restricts their ability to split fire.

Never mind konradkurze says it way better than I can

Ok, after seing the math, pooling attacks can be very OP.

But the core reason behind my concept is for divisions to fire and move in unison.

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 2 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if abe. Attacks from each ship are carried out separately"

Ok, after seing the math, pooling attacks can be very OP.

But the core reason behind my concept is for divisions to fire and move in unison.

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 2 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if abe. Attacks from each ship are carried out separately"

How about all ships in a division lose 1 attack dice? It could represent the crews worried about hitting other ships of their division.

Ok, after seing the math, pooling attacks can be very OP.

But the core reason behind my concept is for divisions to fire and move in unison.

Title (10)- Division Leader -small ship only

"Declare up to 2 other ships of the same hull type as a division. Whilst within movement range 1 of this ship, the ships of a division can be activated as one, before any other ships have been activated. Ships must attack the same targets if abe. Attacks from each ship are carried out separately"

How about all ships in a division lose 1 attack dice? It could represent the crews worried about hitting other ships of their division.

There would have to be some negative effect to balance out the huge benefit of potentially having 3 ships activate before the enemy has a chance to activate a single one of his ships.

The problem with this idea is that it is straight out game breaking for the system armada uses.

The reason that players alternate between firing and moving ships is so that each side has an opportunity to deal some damage before taking some more. We see it all the time in X-Wing with higher pilot skill fighters destroying low pilot skill fighters before they get their turn to shoot.

By getting more than one of your ships to fire before the enemy, you are actually denying them the ability to do their own attacks that might actually destroy the very ship that you are about to fire back - paradox ensues, what if you hadn't done that? You may severely damage the enemy under your rule due to the concentration of firepower, but under the "proper" rules you might find the opposing player decimates your corvettes in his turn, leaving you little to fire back with on their turns.

In short, it gives us the problem that currently plages epic ships in X-Wing, anything that has enough things shooting at it will die - quickly. The difference Armada makes in its turn taking is it gives the other side a chance to thin out the attackers before they next shoot.

Im not against the idea of things that promote co-ordination and fleet tactics for a force, but I think these things will actually exist already in Armada as it stands (just things like your fast ship attack passes might get a bit messy if your opponent does move in the middle of it, but then hey, that is the other ships perogative, and who is to say that that massive star destroyer didnt just smash right into the middle of your formation because they got too close on their pass?).

I think its a great concept, but it just isn't right for Armada. :/

Alright, I've given this quite a bit of thought because the idea is pretty cool and this is what I've come up with:

Fleet Division (5pts) : At the beginning of each turn if there is more than 1 ship with this title (upgrade) then select one enemy ship within Long Range of any of your ships with this title. During that ship's activation, immediately before it begins movement any or all of your ships with this title that have not been activated this turn, may launch a single attack against this ship before it moves. If they do launch an attack then they cannot fire an attack from the arc used during this attack, and they count as having already launched 1 attack.

This, I believe solves the problems of finding the point where it is not overpowered and not underpowered. It allows the target of the squadron to fire before it is fired upon, negating the 3 ship alpha barrage that overpowers firing first, but it also allows the Squadron to fire before that ship moves, potentially giving the advantage of firing before the enemy gets out of range.

It does make a fairly complicated upgrade, but its the only way I could think of to incorporate a mechanic like this fairly.

Alright, I've given this quite a bit of thought because the idea is pretty cool and this is what I've come up with:

Fleet Division (5pts) : At the beginning of each turn if there is more than 1 ship with this title (upgrade) then select one enemy ship within Long Range of any of your ships with this title. During that ship's activation, immediately before it begins movement any or all of your ships with this title that have not been activated this turn, may launch a single attack against this ship before it moves. If they do launch an attack then they cannot fire an attack from the arc used during this attack, and they count as having already launched 1 attack.

This, I believe solves the problems of finding the point where it is not overpowered and not underpowered. It allows the target of the squadron to fire before it is fired upon, negating the 3 ship alpha barrage that overpowers firing first, but it also allows the Squadron to fire before that ship moves, potentially giving the advantage of firing before the enemy gets out of range.

It does make a fairly complicated upgrade, but its the only way I could think of to incorporate a mechanic like this fairly.

I love it!, however I beleive it needs a restriction where the ships must be in close formation in order to effect the coordinated fire, say within close range of each other.

What about:

Fleet division (5 points).

Small ship only.

When this ship activates, any ships of the same model which also has this upgrade may simultaneously activate. All ships doing so may only perform one attack and cannot spend command tokens.

So it's 5 points per ship, no range restriction, but they must sacrifice one attack for the added coordination and the inability to spend tokens represents the following of division commands.

That gives you your concentrated shot but at a loss of secondary targets, and your coordinated movement.

What do you think?

What about instead of not allowing command token, they all must use the same command as the division leader.

and i believe that it needs the range restriction in order to represent maintaining formation.

Observation:

I have no issue with squadrons, but as noted, it should only really be with corvettes.

2-3 corvettes activating as one is more or less equivalent to a single destroyer.

Rather than play with a millon limitations that might or might not work in practice, why not make it a specific corvette-based ability; have a named Corvette - pick one from the TIE fighter game series where several corvettes turn up at once - and give it a special ability:

"When you nominate this ship to activate, nominate another ship within range (whatever). Activate that ship once you have completed the activation of this ship. Your opponent may select another ship as normal after the second ship has activated".

The scale of the game pretty much removes the need for this in my view. It's quite a lot of difficulty to make it balanced (by which i mean they should be no more powerful than if they activated normally, because ships are costed around that alternating activation) and useful, for a fairly minimal gain.

In really large games of 1000pts upwards i can see it being handy, but at 300 standard it's hardly going to come up.

I just gave it some more thought, and i really dislike the idea. Even with balancing factors, allowing 3 Corvettes to fire before a VSD (for example) can respond is BRUTAL. Suddenly that squadron is faster, tougher, has better anti-fighter and has more firepower than a Star Destroyer. For the purpose of points costs and objective play, does that seem a little off to anyone else?

Granted it'd be about 20-30 points more than a VSD, but it's superior in basically every way.

I dislike this idea.

The reason a squadron can organize its attacks is that it maneuvers well and is well coordinated. This is achieved in Armada by actually maneuvering each ship well and choosing the right orders.
This idea takes away the entire point of maneuvering well (which is at least half of the game...) and just gives a "You maneuvered really well" -card to the person using this ability.

Not a fan.