Tokyogriz: member since today, looks like has only posted in this thread, started thread with ad hominems against specific other members, every post is flamebait.

Troooooollll soooock puppppppeeeetttt.....

Hey, lurking just means he's spent time evaluating everything before making a post, it doesn't make him a troll.

I mean, sure, anyone who hurts anyone else's feelings on the internet is a troll, I forgot about that.

Insulting people from his very first post makes him a troll.

Tokyogriz: member since today, looks like has only posted in this thread, started thread with ad hominems against specific other members, every post is flamebait.

Troooooollll soooock puppppppeeeetttt.....

Hey, lurking just means he's spent time evaluating everything before making a post, it doesn't make him a troll.

I mean, sure, anyone who hurts anyone else's feelings on the internet is a troll, I forgot about that.

Insulting people from his very first post makes him a troll.

So you say.

has the thread been reported yet?

Away have I beenToxic these boards had becomeBetter it is not

I'm not sure they were better back then, a cursory search makes me think it was just goggles. Somehow I feel like Yoda-speak would have more commas given his pausing habits.

Something else entirely

I enjoy bacon

has the thread been reported yet?

Needs 5 pages of food posts before a thread is eligible for reporting.

has the thread been reported yet?

Multiple times by now, I would guess.

I know I'm in waaay after this thread has plummeted into the sarlaac pit, but just in case anyone is still reading it and trying to take it seriously:

RE: the falcon. Good riddance. I play rebels exclusively BTW, and I'm sick and tired of people (on both sides) talking about this ship as if it's the be-all-end-all of this faction. Am I convinced it's dead? No. But if so, shrug.

RE: interceptors with autothrusters. Tough vs turrets? Hell yes. Turrets are a signature toy of rebels but not necessary to build a list. "Interceptors" by and large is synonymous with Soontir Fel, who is always stressed. A stressed interceptor is an incredibly easy ship to predict. Its dial consists of 2s and straights. It usually has 1-2 useful maneuvers at any given time. If you need a turret to counter that, you need to get better.

RE: X1s. Yes they'll be good and I expect them to kick my ass for a while. But you know what? I welcome it. In the past year, the only times I see them on the table, they might as well be a "hi, I'm new" badge. This ship deserves to kick some ass for a bit. I'll learn to get better against it. If it's too OP, FFG will address it in some way.

RE: YT-2400s. Not the same thing as Dash or Outrider. This is a nitpicky point but people (on both sides) talk as if this is the ONLY way to run this ship. Dash in the Outrider will be hurt by autothrusters more than any other build but I've had success with Fringer and fixed cannons. Autothrusters present a challenge, but not an insurmountable one.

A falling sky is only a staircase to a Skywalker.

Where does the phrase Imperial Homers come from and what does it mean? I almost never run Homing Missiles on my ships, and I play lots of Imperial...

Where does the phrase Imperial Homers come from and what does it mean? I almost never run Homing Missiles on my ships, and I play lots of Imperial...

Homng Missiles are actually okay since you don't have to spend your TL to fire them. Are they competitive? No idea.

Thanks for your reply Bob, Majorjuggler. I am reviewing to find the datestamp. I seem to remember it pretty well as it was a conversation about AT, but I will try to find it.

From a listener perspective most the anti rebel attitude on the show is from YT 2400 being common in tournaments now. Flavor of the month. No one seems complains about phantoms which are the reason for the 2400 being a staple in tournaments. There is no real rebel hypermobile high PS ship to arc dodge phantoms. Corran with VI and AS is the only real one I have found. Your analysis is very inetersting, even if I don't always follow the math. However it still seems that your understating the importance of a turrent nerf on rebel ships.

One potential fix to the upcoming Rebel funk is an X wing revamp. The X Wing is overpriced and not maneuverable compared to advanced phantoms and interceptors which will rule the meta very soon. Vader had a similar ithough more serious ssue in the advanced with top tier pilot ability in a bottom of the offensive charts ship.

TIE Pilot, thank you for a well articulated out reply. I disagree with your assertions but its one of few "Fanboy" imperial replies that is thought out.

Kryn007 your the exact person aka "Fanboy" I am criticizing in regards to your attitude that the game needs to suit your play style or hit the road. Internet tough guy with no intelligent replies strikes again. Looking at your history of posts its non stop derogatory attacks on rebels specifically turreted rebel ships.

Many on Nova radio and on this site claim to have come over from WH40K. I never played, but understand it has serious power creep. Some factions making others mostly irrelevant. Players from 40k seem to resent this. I am getting the sense that a large chunk of my investment in X wing is heading the same way.

I should clarify I play in local tournaments but am a casual player. So my view is from the casual play side.

I never claimed or try to be such a thing.

I'm just calling it out as I see it.

A kid crying about something that hasn't even been released

I'm not the one crying about imbalance

The game is fine as it is

You really are one sick puppy if you think I'm some sort of fanboy. Yes I won a tournament playing rebels. How is that being a imperial fanboy?

You sure like to Makin crap up

Look through my post history

You see me making posts about unreleased content freaking out about it?

Please point out my posts that indicates I'm a fanboy.

Seek help

Again making crap up. I don't think you understand what the term fanboy means. So if you want to talk about who's unintelligent, take a good look in a mirror

I adressed the same problem basically in this thread not too long ago:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/132735-meta-speculation-will-rebels-have-a-hard-time-in-wave-6/

I kept the tone more civilized, but look at my thread and see what happened.

I am not a Rebel only player just like the OP, but i feel a bit the same when confronted to this Forum.

The responses to my thread by the hardcore Imps were the following:

- one part of the die-hard Imps just denies the impact of AT against turret ships. That's just ridiculous because with an evade token and AT and for Soontir possibly two focus on top, no turret will hit him if he does not roll 3-4 absolute blanks. Do the statistics for yourself how often that will be. And even then it's mostly 1 hit going through. AT will have a big impact against turrets. But i feel that would be okay, if Rebels could field anything else that handles these ships!

- another part just tells us to keep the AT ship in arc. In case of hypermobile ships, that's an option for maybe one turn. If you blow all your own mobility and won't get any attack modification. That means chances are even then very slim to hit these ships. Keeping them in arc afterwards is just an illusion, a fairitale that certain posters want to create. Don't be deceived, either you don't have the mobility to do it or not the Pilot skill to move after them.

- the most part just tells you to learn to fly and to build different lists with Rebel ships, or to "learn the new meta". But i have yet to see anyone of them make an actual proposition that would work against Fel, Phantoms and the other ridiculously powerful imperial ships. They can't deliver such propositions, because there are none! And eventually they don't care about the Rebels, and some even openly admit it.

- and because i didn't back down with what i said, a lot of posts are just sarcastic or designed to make people that don't want to see Rebels disappearing in mediocrity shut up. They just want you to be quiet so they can see Empire more and more bloated by super powerful stuff.

So yes as a player that is preoccupied with a wish for a balanced game rather than just seeing only Imps and Scum played next wave, i can understand that the OP gets frustrated with all those guys.

In defense of certain of the named "homers" XD, i can say that Fickled at least seems a pretty reasonable person. We often disagree, but his posts are often extensive and not entirely one-sided and at least he tries to prove a point instead of just delivering sarcastic 3-liners full of imperial bias like some others do!

Tokyogriz: member since today, looks like has only posted in this thread, started thread with ad hominems against specific other members, every post is flamebait.

Troooooollll soooock puppppppeeeetttt.....

Hey, lurking just means he's spent time evaluating everything before making a post, it doesn't make him a troll.

I mean, sure, anyone who hurts anyone else's feelings on the internet is a troll, I forgot about that.

Insulting people from his very first post makes him a troll.

has the thread been reported yet?

has the thread been reported yet?

Needs 5 pages of food posts before a thread is eligible for reporting.

Aah look, here comes the silencing brigade. We busted them in plain action!

That's the stuff i talked about. If anyone tries to warn before the impending Imperial dominance with scum intermezzos, try to make him shut it asap.

Why should this thread be closed, why report the OP? he did not insult anyone did he? He named some people, but did not say anything about them that would be really offensive. Or can you not even say anymore that player XY is totally biased toward a faction? And does not care about balance? I thought freedom of expression would be a given here!

I thought freedom of expression would be a given here!

By this I dont mean literally what the comic says (Im not saying this thread is bs or that people should be banned), but its just a great counter to the moment people invoke free speech.

- the most part just tells you to learn to fly and to build different lists with Rebel ships, or to "learn the new meta". But i have yet to see anyone of them make an actual proposition that would work against Fel, Phantoms and the other ridiculously powerful imperial ships. They can't deliver such propositions, because there are none! And eventually they don't care about the Rebels, and some even openly admit it.

Maybe because we have better things to do with our time than create hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions. If we disagree with the Rebel premise of "The sky is falling" then why is the onus on the Imperials to come up with a blueprint for an underground bunker? Shouldn't the Rebels be doing that, since it is apparently "their" problem?

Let the ships be released. Play with them. Use their cards on other ships. See what the results are. Decide for yourself whether something is no longer viable, and come up with something else. Then come back and tell us your results.

- the most part just tells you to learn to fly and to build different lists with Rebel ships, or to "learn the new meta". But i have yet to see anyone of them make an actual proposition that would work against Fel, Phantoms and the other ridiculously powerful imperial ships. They can't deliver such propositions, because there are none! And eventually they don't care about the Rebels, and some even openly admit it.

Maybe because we have better things to do with our time than create hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions. If we disagree with the Rebel premise of "The sky is falling" then why is the onus on the Imperials to come up with a blueprint for an underground bunker? Shouldn't the Rebels be doing that, since it is apparently "their" problem?

Let the ships be released. Play with them. Use their cards on other ships. See what the results are. Decide for yourself whether something is no longer viable, and come up with something else. Then come back and tell us your results.

Wow that really confirms any cliché the OP brought up against Imp-only players, you realise that, do you?

It's a 2, soon a 3 faction game. And if one of them is seriously lacking options against what the other can field, that's imbalance which is the problem of everyone playing the game. You are the one sitting in the bunker not seeing what's going on outside, if you think that way.

And your "i don't care" attitude just shows me that you are incapable of coming up with anything Rebels could do to stay competitive. But that's no shame really, no one came up with anything sensible yet!

I thought freedom of expression would be a given here!

By this I dont mean literally what the comic says (Im not saying this thread is bs or that people should be banned), but its just a great counter to the moment people invoke free speech.

Yes i know, freedom of expression has its limits and the argument can be used both ways. But i honestly can't see any reason why this thread should be closed at the moment.

- the most part just tells you to learn to fly and to build different lists with Rebel ships, or to "learn the new meta". But i have yet to see anyone of them make an actual proposition that would work against Fel, Phantoms and the other ridiculously powerful imperial ships. They can't deliver such propositions, because there are none! And eventually they don't care about the Rebels, and some even openly admit it.

Maybe because we have better things to do with our time than create hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions. If we disagree with the Rebel premise of "The sky is falling" then why is the onus on the Imperials to come up with a blueprint for an underground bunker? Shouldn't the Rebels be doing that, since it is apparently "their" problem?

Let the ships be released. Play with them. Use their cards on other ships. See what the results are. Decide for yourself whether something is no longer viable, and come up with something else. Then come back and tell us your results.

Wow that really confirms any cliché the OP brought up against Imp-only players, you realise that, do you?

It's a 2, soon a 3 faction game. And if one of them is seriously lacking options against what the other can field, that's imbalance which is the problem of everyone playing the game. You are the one sitting in the bunker not seeing what's going on outside, if you think that way.

And your "i don't care" attitude just shows me that you are incapable of coming up with anything Rebels could do to stay competitive. But that's no shame really, no one came up with anything sensible yet!

First, turrets aren't dying. They're going to have to pay attention to where their firing arcs are, just like every other ship--but that doesn't mean you can't make attacks out of arc, nor does it mean you won't be able to make any attacks at all. High-PS are also still the most straightforward solution to Phantoms, so I have a feeling they're going to remain in the metagame.

Second, Rebels have good non-turret options whether you choose to make use of them or not, and whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. Turrets have dominated the Wave 4 and Wave 5 metagame, but not the Wave 2 or Wave 3 metas--despite the fact that there were lots of nasty Han and Chewie builds available, and despite the fact that Fel occasionally showed up in competitive lists.

To the degree that Rebels have a problem, it's that no one really knows how to counter something like a Whisper/Fel+EU list [EDIT: I mean Fel+AT]. But that's not a Rebel problem, because the Scum have it too--and so does the Empire. I guarantee people will be engaged in finding the answer, though, and in fact I guarantee they're finding it now. The difference between people like you and the OP and the people with a real shot at winning major tournaments is that you're spending your energy making up reasons to be outraged on behalf of the Rebels, rather than looking at your toolbox and figuring out how to address the dilemma at hand.

I want people to know you've seriously depleted my quota of likes for the day so well done.

Also I'm named but in no way insulted in fact I have a big grin from reading most of this thread, I'm thinking of getting that homer as Darth Vader put on a t-shirt with something like "I find your lack of doughnuts disturbing"

Also I play both sides and soon three when wave six finally arrives, only thing I don't own is the transport and I am gonna order one now I know scums not landing this month.

Interceptors are great ships that are unplayable at the moment, AT is not being added to ruin your gaming experiences but to let people use the ship's they spent money on again, it's hardly fair you can use large turret ships at will but imps can't use an iconic ship.

- the most part just tells you to learn to fly and to build different lists with Rebel ships, or to "learn the new meta". But i have yet to see anyone of them make an actual proposition that would work against Fel, Phantoms and the other ridiculously powerful imperial ships. They can't deliver such propositions, because there are none! And eventually they don't care about the Rebels, and some even openly admit it.

Maybe because we have better things to do with our time than create hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions. If we disagree with the Rebel premise of "The sky is falling" then why is the onus on the Imperials to come up with a blueprint for an underground bunker? Shouldn't the Rebels be doing that, since it is apparently "their" problem?

Let the ships be released. Play with them. Use their cards on other ships. See what the results are. Decide for yourself whether something is no longer viable, and come up with something else. Then come back and tell us your results.

Wow that really confirms any cliché the OP brought up against Imp-only players, you realise that, do you?

It's a 2, soon a 3 faction game. And if one of them is seriously lacking options against what the other can field, that's imbalance which is the problem of everyone playing the game. You are the one sitting in the bunker not seeing what's going on outside, if you think that way.

And your "i don't care" attitude just shows me that you are incapable of coming up with anything Rebels could do to stay competitive. But that's no shame really, no one came up with anything sensible yet!

What cliché? I enjoy playing Imperials. I don't particularly enjoy playing with Rebels. I suppose that makes me an Imperial player. I would reject the assessment of "fanboy" though, since I happen to be a fully functioning adult and not, you know, 14. I'm actually capable of liking something while being aware that it is not perfect.

What I don't get is why you expect me to solve your "problem" for you. Instead of working on a solution yourself, using your own brain, and your own time, and your own effort, you've simply come on here and said "Because other IMPERIAL players haven't told me how to solve an imaginary problem, it means the world is ending".

Just how entitled do you want to sound? How did it become our responsibility to supply a solution to your issue?

You say the Rebels are lacking options? Have you even tried? Have you sat down at a table, facing off against Fel, with AT, in 100pt matchups, and created AAAAA, XXXX, BBBB, ZZZZZZ, EEE, YYYY and every single permutation of pilot cards, upgrades, and combination of the above letters of the alphabet that might potentially work?

No? Then don't expect me to do it for you. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you. Certainly not before the ships have even hit the table.

I'll tell you what you HAVE done. You've sat at your computer (not a gaming table, a computer) and decided that the ONLY way to play Rebels is to have a big ship with a turret to counter Phantoms. You've looked at all the previous Championship winning lists, seen that most of them have a 1300 or 2400, and thought that that's the only way to win big games. Now a ship has come along that was previously near-useless against the 1300 and suddenly it stands a chance again. Just 1 ship. With 3hp and no shield. And suddenly with 100pts of Rebel Pilots, upgrades, ships and options, you "can't" kill it. Because the internet says so. Because someone hasn't countered it yet and posted all about it on the forums so that everyone can copy and paste it all over the world until "everyone knows about it, what, are you stupid?" becomes the norm.

I'm not rejecting reality. My reality is that in about 30 minutes, I'm going to go to my local club, and play some games of Xwing with people. One of them has Fel in every single list he runs, ever. I never use turreted ships except as part of the comedy double-decimator routine. And yet, I still win games. Amazing. The people at my club don't netlist. They don't cry and moan about how "undefeatable" a certain ship is. We play games and have fun.

So I'll leave you, now, to your misery and angst over how the whole game is out to force Rebel players into uncompetitiveness, and your internet "research" (copying other peoples ideas and repeating them as your own, instead of discovering or inventing them yourself) on how to beat Fel. I hope you find something soon, so I don't have to hear about how it's my fault that you can't find a winning combination of ships anywhere.

Second, Rebels have good non-turret options whether you choose to make use of them or not, and whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. Turrets have dominated the Wave 4 and Wave 5 metagame, but not the Wave 2 or Wave 3 metas--despite the fact that there were lots of nasty Han and Chewie builds available, and despite the fact that Fel occasionally showed up in competitive lists.

I do remember a LOT of complaints about Double Falcons during the 2013 Regionals (what are now Store Championships). Firesprays and Swarms were good answers then, and still are now. Especially since Scum Firesprays will bring them back into play.

All I ever said was i didn't realize the sky was falling

No indication whatsoever as to what factions I use

But that was enough for the op to classify me as a imperial player and homer.

Whatever the hell that means I don't know.

I then told him how it is, not to categorize me based off nothing really.

Then he tries to make a comment about intelligence.

Then makes up crap saying my post history shows me making comments putting down turrets?

The kid clearly has some sort of issues imo

Doesn't seem to notice my posts about using rebels dash builds, and answering questions for new players

Along with that he opens up very negative critiquing other forum members.

Coming from someone who has just Created a new account, not a very good way to introduce yourself.

If this is what someone's first post is going to be like, I'm sorry but I'd wish he'd leave.

Don't need people like this around here imo

Surely, the sky is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinghghgrhrhrhh!

Autothrusters surely changes things for the Turrets of the game. There are some counters to the single ship that can take such an upgrade on the empire side, the Tie Interceptor. Yes this will bring the Squint to the top of the most wanted list of the rebelion as it will help shift the meta around. I do believe they undercosted the Autothruster upgrade at only making it 2 points but it's almost here and we have to learn to adapt. Yes from what I've seen 3 attacking dice turrets are going to have a very difficult time getting hits in if the Autothrusters are active on a squint. The most reliable way to kill Sontir Fel at this point also comes to the empire in the form of Vader crew card.

With both the Phantom and Interceptor being the best manueverable ships in the game the Empire have locked into a strong theme for how they operate in the game. Turrets were the way to handle this problem and that is why you saw so many over the last 9months. After Autothrusters comes out the Empire will not only have the best manueverable ships but the best Turret as well in the Decimator. That is the only problem I see in the coming meta. The empire will be fighting the empire while, the Scum and Rebels fight over the scraps.

Honestly I play imp vs reb every friday. Seem pretty balanced to me. OK the Reb HWK sucks compared to scum, but it's a support ship.

Turrets are OP against everything that isn't a phantom, and guess what? Deci 2400 and YT have the same OP'ness. (YT probably a bit worse with 3po). I messed with a friends B-wing swarm horribly with my Deci on friday.(lost the game only due to a truly stupid move on my part that cost me like 6 hull points). Autothrusters won't help phantoms (because ACD) but they will make interceptors viable again. Interceptors are the games premier knife fighters, and currently a turret ship to them is almost an I win button. Autothrusters give them more leverage.

Hey guys, guess what?

There are no "I win" buttons in this game. Some things are stronger than others in a direct matchup, but nothing is guaranteed. For Pete's sake, please stop using that meaningless phrase.