100pt Rebel Lockdown/Outmaneuver Everything (Fear no Phantoms?)

By hivestar, in X-Wing Squad Lists

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100pts total:

Keyran Farlander (B-Wing) - 29pts

When attacking, you may remove 1 stress token to change all of your focus results to hit results.

- B-Wing/E2 (Modification) - Gives Copilot. - 1pt

- Navigator (Co-Pilot) - On dial reveal, change bearing speed. - 3pts

- Stay on Target (Elite Upgrade) - On dial reveal, change to manuever of same speed, becomes red. - 2pts

- Fire-Control System (Systems Upgrade) - When you perform attack, gain target lock on defender. - 2pts

- Ion Cannon (Cannon Upgrade) - 3pts

"Dutch" Vander (Y-Wing) - 23pts

After acquiring a target lock, choose another friendly ship at Range 1-2. The chosen ship may immediately acquire a target lock.

- Ion Cannon Turret (Turret Upgrade) - 5pts

- R3-A2 (Astromech upgrade) - 2pts - Give stress token to defender in firing arc, receive stress token.

Kyle Katarn (HWK-290) - 21pts

At the start of the Combat phase, you may assign 1 of your focus tokens to another friendly ship at Range 1-3.

- Veteran Instincts (Elite Upgrade) - 1pt - +2 Pilot Skill

- Recon Specialist (Co-Pilot) - 3pts - Get an extra focus when you perform focus action.

- Ion Cannon Turret (Turret Upgrade) - 5pts

Dutch and kyle stay in middle of board, giving eachother target lock/focus every turn. Both Ion anything within range 3. Targets with stress tokens preferred. Dutch can stress something in a pinch (on top of his attack).

Keyran gives itself target lock after each performed attack, benefits as though it always had focus for attacks.

The idea is to force the enemy to make red manuevers around the middle of the board or trying to get a bead on crazy manueverable B-Wing or the 360 degree ion boats while all of my ships reliably fire ion every turn with high hit percentage.

Stress tokens stick around longer with ion tokens on the same ship as they prevent green manuevers as well as Phantom's ACD from giving free cloak action.

Additionally, ion prevents Phantom's De-Cloak (No manuever dial assigned to ion'd ship)

Let me know what you think! This is my first posted list, but it seems pretty strong!

Edited by hivestar

To stress a phantom with your list, you need to hit them. But you won't. A goid phantom will avoid your arc and stay at R3.

Edited by Wildhorn

To stress a phantom with your list, you need to hit them. But you won't. A goid phantom will avoid your arc and stay at R3.

All phantoms without a boost to pilot skill activate before the B-wing or the HWK. B-wing can change it's maneuver completely upon dial reveal after the phantom has moved. Right?

And I don't need to hit to stress. I just need to force red maneuvers or activate R3-A2.

Edited by hivestar

To stress a phantom with your list, you need to hit them. But you won't. A goid phantom will avoid your arc and stay at R3.

All phantoms without a boost to pilot skill activate before the B-wing or the HWK. B-wing can change it's maneuver completely upon dial reveal after the phantom has moved. Right?

And I don't need to hit to stress. I just need to force red maneuvers or activate R3-A2.

Assume that Whisper and Echo always have VI. FFG might as well have just made them cost a point more and gave them 2 more PS and no EPT slot.

The biggest problem that I see with your list is the lack of damage. Of your three ships you've only got one that't capable of doing much damage and you've strapped an ion cannon to him. I think you'd be better off dropping the ion cannon and switching Navigator out for Tactician. Since Keyan is more or less going to be doing red moves every turn, I'd also trade in the FCS for Advanced Sensors so you aren't losing his action every round. If i've kept all of the points straight in my head, this should give you 4 points to play with. I'm not sure where I'd spend them. Maybe give Dutch some ordnance that gives him a decent attack at range 3?

To stress a phantom with your list, you need to hit them. But you won't. A goid phantom will avoid your arc and stay at R3.

All phantoms without a boost to pilot skill activate before the B-wing or the HWK. B-wing can change it's maneuver completely upon dial reveal after the phantom has moved. Right?

And I don't need to hit to stress. I just need to force red maneuvers or activate R3-A2.

Assume that Whisper and Echo always have VI. FFG might as well have just made them cost a point more and gave them 2 more PS and no EPT slot.

The biggest problem that I see with your list is the lack of damage. Of your three ships you've only got one that't capable of doing much damage and you've strapped an ion cannon to him. I think you'd be better off dropping the ion cannon and switching Navigator out for Tactician. Since Keyan is more or less going to be doing red moves every turn, I'd also trade in the FCS for Advanced Sensors so you aren't losing his action every round. If i've kept all of the points straight in my head, this should give you 4 points to play with. I'm not sure where I'd spend them. Maybe give Dutch some ordnance that gives him a decent attack at range 3?

My concern with the B-Wing is that removing Navigator takes away the SoT combo that allows me to change my dial completely on reveal. With Navigator+SoT, if I initially set my dial to a forward manuever, I can perform any manuever on my dial, then get a free target lock (FCS) after what is essentially a free focus for my attack every turn without performing an action. I only give up the ability to barrel roll/defensive focus in return. I feel like dial freedom is better than barrel rolling, but I want to hear thoughts! B-Wing can also get focus from Kyle.

+++(I think I'd change B-wing to Flechette Cannon/Adv. Sensors from Ion/FCS, I agree Adv Sensors is more versatile than FCS)

Speaking to low damage output, I was trying to wrap my head around the math behind this one. Can you reliably get more than 1 unblocked dmg past 4-5 green dice plus evade? B-Wing's normal attack is 3. I'll nearly always have focus/target lock whether it's ion or regular dmg. Ion has additional bonus of messing with de-cloak/manueverability+1 dmg.

+++(With Flechette Cannon instead of Ion, I can give out Stress+1dmg, strengthening the Stress/Ion lockdown synergy)

Only Whisper with VI can activate after the HWK, though both will activate before the B-Wing. Can't ditch SoT for VI on B-wing though. :( Any other way to improve Pilot Skill?

I can get Dutch up to PS8 by trading R3-A2 for R2-D6+VI, making him activate after everything but Whisper+VI as well.

End result:

Keyran Farlander (B-Wing) - 29pts
When attacking, you may remove 1 stress token to change all of your focus results to hit results.
- B-Wing/E2 (Modification) - Gives Copilot. - 1pt
- Navigator (Co-Pilot) - On dial reveal, change bearing speed. - 3pts
- Stay on Target (Elite Upgrade) - On dial reveal, change to manuever of same speed, becomes red. - 2pts
- Advanced Sensors (Systems Upgrade) - Get action before manuever instead of after. - 3pts
- Flechette Cannon (Cannon Upgrade) - 2pts
"Dutch" Vander (Y-Wing) - 23pts
After acquiring a target lock, choose another friendly ship at Range 1-2. The chosen ship may immediately acquire a target lock.
- Ion Cannon Turret (Turret Upgrade) - 5pts
- R2-D6 (Astromech upgrade) - 1pt - Get elite icon added to card.
- Veteran Instincts (Elite Upgrade) - 1pt - +2 Pilot Skill
Kyle Katarn (HWK-290) - 21pts
At the start of the Combat phase, you may assign 1 of your focus tokens to another friendly ship at Range 1-3.
- Veteran Instincts (Elite Upgrade) - 1pt - +2 Pilot Skill
- Recon Specialist (Co-Pilot) - 3pts - Get an extra focus when you perform focus action.
- Ion Cannon Turret (Turret Upgrade) - 5pts

The only hole is Dutch and kyle's dmg output. Without the B-Wing, I'm plinking unstressed high-agility ships with 1-2 die shots if I want to do regular dmg. Do I need to do more damage though, if I can control the board well enough?

I welcome advice (sorry for massive TLDR)

Edited by hivestar

Dutch and kyle stay in middle of board, giving eachother target lock/focus every turn. Both Ion anything within range 3.

No, they max out @ range 2 with their Ion Cannons. As mentioned earlier, Phantoms could fairly easily stay @ range 3, since the HWK and Y-Wing don't move very quickly.

Also, B-wing's go down quickly to focused fire. That's a lot of points on Keyan, and once he goes down, your list doesn't have much firepower. Also, consider that there are several game mechanics that give out stress: Flechette Torps, Mara Jade, Tactician, Rebel Captive, etc. If Keyan gets 2 stress tokens, the Navigator/Stay on Target combo doesn't work and he'll be a little easier to predict.

Speaking to low damage output, I was trying to wrap my head around the math behind this one. Can you reliably get more than 1 unblocked dmg past 4-5 green dice plus evade? B-Wing's normal attack is 3. I'll nearly always have focus/target lock whether it's ion or regular dmg. Ion has additional bonus of messing with de-cloak/manueverability+1 dmg.

Imagine you're going against a decimator....you can't outmaneuver him and also have a shot on him because of the turret. Also, your ships won't be evading much damage. Considering he has twice as much health as Keyan, Keyan will go down before the decimator will.

Then you're left using Ion Cannons, which do 1 damage each if they hit. That's not enough to count on.

Dutch and kyle stay in middle of board, giving eachother target lock/focus every turn. Both Ion anything within range 3.

No, they max out @ range 2 with their Ion Cannons. As mentioned earlier, Phantoms could fairly easily stay @ range 3, since the HWK and Y-Wing don't move very quickly.

Also, B-wing's go down quickly to focused fire. That's a lot of points on Keyan, and once he goes down, your list doesn't have much firepower. Also, consider that there are several game mechanics that give out stress: Flechette Torps, Mara Jade, Tactician, Rebel Captive, etc. If Keyan gets 2 stress tokens, the Navigator/Stay on Target combo doesn't work and he'll be a little easier to predict.

Yeah, range 3 is a typo there, sorry. But with both HWK and Y-Wing at PS8, only Whisper activates after them. I can close with Echo from range 3 to 2 as long as he isn't behind beither of those ships. Am I right there?

So far:

Whisper(VI+ACD) and Rear Admiral Chiraneau(VI+Whatever) together would be hard to beat with this list. Stress lists can severly hamper my mobility/combos. High-HP large ships with 360 firing arcs can outlast me. Focus fire kills my only heavy hitter.

Edited by hivestar

You might be better of with Roark than Kyle. Let him boost the PS of whichever one of your ships has a Phantom in arc. That also frees up some more points which might let you squeeze in a fourth ship.

I get why you'd want SoT+Navigator but I think that combo is much better on paper than it actually plays out. A barrel-roll before your move using Advanced Sensors while you've picked a 2 move gives you almost as much flexibility. FCS only really pays off if you can keep firing at the same ship every turn.

I think that you are investing a lot of points for the token passing gimmick. Like any list built around a gimmick if you lose any piece of it makes all the other pieces weaker.

You've mentioned forcing your opponent to make red moves. I'm not sure if that's really something that will work too well. Your ships are a lot more likited by red on their dials than a lot of the ships you'll be facing. For many ships the only red on their dial is a k-turn.

In the end you should fly whatever you think will work. Don't be afraid to fail with a list. It will teach you alot about your playstyle and will give you some experience on what does and doesn't work.

I really appreciate the feedback! Everything you said made sense. The pieces themselves need to be strong, rather than trying to win a game purely on a fragile synergy.

I was thinking about attack dice probability and not the fact that my opponents will be shooting back just as hard.

All of my experience with XWing is in my buddy's gaming room. I think I may go to a shop for some organized play and try to find some experienced players like you to run lists against. :)