This came up in a session today, does the Imperium have movie stars, or tv programing? I would imagine that it would have to toe the line of information control, and would be entertaining to the masses without giving the impression that they could rise above their station.

Most middle hive families and lower hivers would go to a public theatre, but what about the nobility?

There is another thread or two about this that just died like a month ago. It is either in this forum or the GMs board - it was quite exhaustive, take a look.

I think I started that one. It's more just about TV and movies, honestly.

Yes they do, they have pict and vox services exactly like we have television, film, video, radio, internet, etc. Naturally, a lot depends upon the technological sophistication, and social freedom, of the planet in question. I can see there being a lot of state control in everything, pushing the party line and censoring anything that might suggest Imperial weakness, and naturally it will also pander to the superstitious and unsophisticated tastes of the average Imperium citizen in both entertainment and information.

I have an enduring vision of some guys tuning through the vox frequencies, passing through Redemptionist broadcasts, bombastic music stations and Imperial propaganda services. And also visions of sports bars showing gladiatorial matches and blood bowl , no doubt getting disapproving and sometimes violent visits from Ministorum temperance movements.

>>they have pict and vox services exactly like we have television, film, video, radio, internet, etc. Naturally<<

I don't know about internet - that was pretty heavily debated in the other thread. As for television, I'd be prone to say it comes in black and white for most people - if most people even have a television rather than a radio set. Film, certainly, though it would no doubt be preceded by propoganda tracts of the type you used to see around WWII (ish - there is that line of thought among historians that WWI never really ended, so calling it #2 is a bit of a misnomer ... random important fact.) and the films themselves would be heavily propogandized - featuring the Imperium's conquest over the Enemies of Man. (this might be backdrop for some films, might be shoehorned in with others, while with many it would be the central theme. Either way, expect to see it.)

Every era has its movie, theatre and sports stars, so I could see it being the same in DH. Some of these would be preachers and propoganda machines themselves - selling the ideals of the Empire to their eager fans.

Thanks. That all makes sense. It's good to get other viewpoints concerning such things and helps me to world-build.

Jack of Tears said:

The important point is the sentence right after that quote; a lot depends upon the planet and its technological and legal enlightenment. For example, though it doesnt explicitely say so, it seems strongly implied in the Ravenor books that Eustis Majoris has a public internet. This is a rich, advanced planet that even elects liberal governors, so it certainly makes sense too. Obviously, we're probably talking Singapore or China internet taken to the logical extremes. But I see no reason why there cant be internet. And I find the suggestion of stuff like black-and-white pict service only pretty absurd; thats taking the retrograde nature of the Imperium a step too far IMO. Its like the author that took pains to say that holographic displays (a technology we in RL are beginning to seriously experiment with) is incredibly rare, whilst ignoring the things like giant spaceships, stacked atomic chain data storage and artificial gravity that he liberally spammed all over his work without a second thought! The point in 40k is that the Imperium isnt as advanced as the date 40,000 AD suggests , not that it isnt advanced at all. Then again, most people probably havent had the opportunity to read the synopsis they made in Rogue Trader, so perhaps its understandable the misconception is so widespread.

WarpGhost said:

What are you referring to?

TalkingMuffin said:

In the Rogue Trader book (in which the basis of the 40k universe was first given), it spells out why the Imperium is not super-dooper-hand-wavy advanced, and also why they dont delve into deep technical detail about things. To quote one passage:

Rogue Trader book:

"The main reason for this is simply that the Age of the Imperium is not a technically inclined age, to have included descriptions of 'head-up dispays', 'computer links', etc, would have given the wtong impression entirely. This is an age where problems are solved by brute force and ignorance, where dangers are either too gross or too unthinkable to elicit any other response.
The other reason why technical description has been avoided is that the Age of the Imperium lies more than forty thousand years in the future - at a stage in history when those head-up displays and computers are about as innovative as storte circles. What scientific knowledge persists from the Dark Age of Technology is far above and beyond anything we can imagine from the perspective of the Twentieth Century. That understanding lies only with a select few - the Adeptus Mechanicus - the Tech-priests of the Imperium. Even their knowledge is somewhat debased, and the popular image of technology can be compared with that of witchcraft in medieval times. Those who come into contact with technology use it with reservations and a reveicnce that are almost religious."

Ultimately, especially in a involved game like DH, the world you portray depends upon the feel you're trying to evoke. Maybe a very retrograde Imperium gives the feel you want; maybe a very advanced one does. I do think that, in some cases, the technology of the Imperium is portrayed as too backwards and primitive, whereas Rick Priestly (who wrote the 40k universe) was trying to convey that it was the people that were backward, not the technology. Back when he wrote it, it was somewhat unusual to focus on people in sci-fi, rather than their technology.

WarpGhost said:

I have to disagree. I think it perfectly demonstrates the eclectic mix of advanced and primitive that, to me, characterizes the technology of the Imperium. Yes, they have giant starships and artificial gravity. They also fight wars with machine guns and swords! Yes, they have holographic displays but they also have black and white 1930's-style news reels. You have military commanders who wear metal plate armor and force fields, examining battle maps on holographic displays while shouting orders into radio units that wouldn't look out of place in a WWI bunker.

In the Ciaphias Cain novels reference is made to "popular" vid dramas - in this case relating the exploits of a Imperial fighter squadron against the odds.

I would guess yes if the world has the tech, as noted - vary from world to world...........

Thanks to everyone! You never realize just how many little questions you have until you start to actually run the game (two sessions of mainly world-building, but bad-ASS nonetheless), so all of these ideas really help.

WarpGhost said:

Because to have access internet means that you have to own a computer, and the WH40K analogy of a computer would be a cogitator/logic engine and if you look up what one of those costs in Inquisitors Handbook and compare it to the salary an avareage worker has in Thrones (drudging classes making about 30 thrones a month, while an emplaced cogitator system costs about 4.000 thrones), I can think of PLENTY of reasons why Internet would not be a common thing even on rich hive worlds.

Also if you consider how the real world internet first started (basically being a computerized information grid for the US military called ARPAnet) and then ask yourself how common it is for the Imperial warmachine to just "dump" Intelligence technology for the civilian masses to use at their leisure?

Im not saying that the creme de la creme of a rather technologically advanced world would not have plenty of technological and expensive toys, but such a widespread thing like internet I just cant feasibly see the reason for it to exist on any given world except either in military, the extremely wealthy or Adeptus Mechanicus' hands. Especially since the life of most common Imperial citizens are described as being somewhat medieval in nature (even for hivers)...

Varnias Tybalt said:

I think, even more so then the rarity or expense of technology, what would keep things like the internet from being prevalent or common on Imperial worlds is the whole control of information thing that the Imperium as going.

In the 40k universe, not only is knowledge power, but knowledge has a real bad habit of dooming worlds, damning souls, and summoning unmentionable evils into this world (which is why the Imperium is so big on controlling it). Now, there's probably no Imperial laws against having a planet wide information network and a planetary governor's free to allow one to exist. However, they probably aren't likely to do so as the risks of allowing such is too great. Even if it's heavily censored and controlled, the fact that it exists means that eventually one of the watchdogs who spends their lives censoring information on it will get lax, have an off day, or get corrupted by the information they've understood before censoring, and information that should not be disseminated will be. Even if it's left on the network only briefly, the damage will be done and dangerous information will begin to spread like a virus.

Sure, the =][= will swoop in, clean the mess up, but once they're done expunging the information, the chain of inquiry on how this could have happened will eventually land them on the doorstep of the Planetary Governor who allowed a medium to exist that could rapidly disseminate this viral knowledge to it's population resulting in the destruction of a hive, millions dead and purged, and a lot of the Emperor's Time and Ammunition spent. The governor will, no doubt, be replaced (executed) for incompetence and a new one the Imperium can trust to keep this from happening again will be put in charge. All in all, a situation no planetary governor would want.

If there is any kind of planet wide information network, it would more then likely be accessed from public terminals and be a strictly passive medium for the populace, more like radio or television (where every channel is Fox News) with only an elite minority who are allowed to add or alter information on said network... though this will still be quite dangerous if some from of destructive information makes it on there. The damage it would do would be far greater then if the information were in a physical book in a physical location as opposed to being able to be accessed by multiple people all across the world at the same time. Trying to purge that would be a nightmare and could lead to the quarantine and whole-sale slaughter of the inhabitants to make sure the information is eradicated.

Firstly, the costs and selection of stuff in the DH rules are hardly a worthwhile guideline for wider consideration. DH equipment works from the perspective of Inquisitorial acolytes and their enemies, not from the PoV of the majority of Imperial citizens. If you took DH so literally, noone should be able to own 'radio', because the 'phonograph' is the best thing they have (another prime example of severely misplaced retrogade writing IMO) and thats beyond worker wage. This especially doesnt make sense when a micro-vox costs just 20; miniaturised two-way wireless communications should be much more restricted than something you have in the living room to passively pick up high-powered public broadcasts. But Acolytes dont need them, and do need micro-beads, and so the DH armoury reflects that.

Secondly, you're both thinking of only one type of internet: the one you're using at this very moment. This is merely one form of internet, not the only form. It could range in-game from anything far beyond the interactivity and freedom of that internet, to a severely limited and controlled read-only public data service.

WarpGhost said:

Yes they could. It's called a vox, but it is not even decribed in the armoury simply because a receive-only radio wouldnt find much use in the hands of Inquisitorial agents. The phonograph is for recording sounds not receive vox signals...