Apologies if this has been discussed.

THis scenario came up last night. So an undamaged and cloaked whisper was hit four times by Rexler with HLC. Whisper rolled poorly and only cancelled one hit. Two shots take out his shields and one goes through. Rexler uses his aiblity and flips the damage card up. it says you cannot perform actions on your action bar. so heres the question: can whisper decloak? I know that decloaking is not an action but it is associated with the cloaking symbol on the action bar

You may decloak. Since to decloak you only need to have a cloak token. You would not be able to cloak as an action, however, you would be able to perform a free cloak action after attacking if you had Advanced Cloaking Device equipped. This comes from the FAQ on Damaged Sensor Array. Standard reading of this would say you can perform free actions of a defined type even if that action is on your action bar.

Yeah, Decloaking isn't an action and isn't really associated with the cloaking action, other than in the sense you had to cloak before you could decloak.

You're looking at the same effective situation where a ship had a TL or Focus token, and then drew that crit. Would you say they couldn't spend that token just because they can't take the action any longer?

You may decloak. Since to decloak you only need to have a cloak token. You would not be able to cloak as an action, however, you would be able to perform a free cloak action after attacking if you had Advanced Cloaking Device equipped. This comes from the FAQ on Damaged Sensor Array. Standard reading of this would say you can perform free actions of a defined type even if that action is on your action bar.

Damaged Sensor Array

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it may

still perform actions from upgrade or damage cards

that have the ‘Action’ header.

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it

cannot perform the target lock action in its action bar,

but may still acquire target locks through other means.

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can

still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card

with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling)

even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

Advanced Cloaking Device does not have the "Action header" on the card nor can the Cloak action cannot be used after shooting since it cannot be performed. The FAQ example used by FFG is saying you can gain tokens by other means. Jendon, Garven, Kyle, Dutch, etc. all allow tokens to be "passed", "acquired", or "placed next to" the receiving ship. None of them say "Perform X/Y/Z action". Since there is no possible way to gain a cloak token other than by performing the Cloak action, then then Phantom is unable to re-cloak until the crit effect is fixed.

Advanced Cloaking Device does not have the "Action header" on the card nor can the Cloak action cannot be used after shooting since it cannot be performed. The FAQ example used by FFG is saying you can gain tokens by other means. Jendon, Garven, Kyle, Dutch, etc. all allow tokens to be "passed", "acquired", or "placed next to" the receiving ship. None of them say "Perform X/Y/Z action". Since there is no possible way to gain a cloak token other than by performing the Cloak action, then then Phantom is unable to re-cloak until the crit effect is fixed.

In fact, if it weren't for the header "TIE Phantom only", ANY ship in the game could equip it and use it to cloak after firing, regardless of having the cloak action on its action bar or not.

So, a TIE phantom can cloak either by using its own action bar or by using the Advanced Cloaking Device. The critical result only blocks the first option. Thus, the damaged phantom is unable to cloak if it doesn't shoot someone first.

.

Advanced Cloaking Device does not have the "Action header" on the card nor can the Cloak action cannot be used after shooting since it cannot be performed. The FAQ example used by FFG is saying you can gain tokens by other means. Jendon, Garven, Kyle, Dutch, etc. all allow tokens to be "passed", "acquired", or "placed next to" the receiving ship. None of them say "Perform X/Y/Z action". Since there is no possible way to gain a cloak token other than by performing the Cloak action, then then Phantom is unable to re-cloak until the crit effect is fixed.

The matter is that the "Advanced Cloaking Device" card grants you the ability to perform a cloak action, even if you don't have the cloak action in your action bar.

In fact, if it weren't for the header "TIE Phantom only", ANY ship in the game could equip it and use it to cloak after firing, regardless of having the cloak action on its action bar or not.

So, a TIE phantom can cloak either by using its own action bar or by using the Advanced Cloaking Device. The critical result only blocks the first option. Thus, the damaged phantom is unable to cloak if it doesn't shoot someone first.

Damaged Sensor Array on a Phantom does not allow you to perform Focus, Evade, Cloak, or Barrel Roll as an action (or free action). You can however use an upgrade card that has the bolded ACTION word at the top of the card(or try and fix the crit).

I'm going to go with FNG tie pilot, the faq seems pretty clear here:

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it may
still perform actions from upgrade or damage cards
that have the ‘Action’ header.

ACD does not have the 'Action' Header, thus you would be unable to perform a cloak action when damaged.

That was my point when we encountered this question. I referred to the FAQ. It seems clear to me that you woud not be able perform a cloak but there seems to be a little bit of doubt.

So, just for the mental exercise... What happens to a Damaged Sensor Array decimator with Ysanne onboard?

Can it take the evade action at the start of the combat phase?

The evade action is not on the VT-49 action bar... And Yssane doesn't have the "Action:" header neither...

I suggest reading this thread

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/132768-ysanne-and-damaged-sensor-array-crit/

Conveniently titled "ysanne and damaged sensor array crit"

That was started just one day before this thread was and is located about halfway down the first page of threads.

Missed that specific thread, but it is precisely the point I was trying to made.

I agree with those that say that the action originates form the card, not from the bar, and you can perform it, even if it doesn't have the 'action' header.

It doesn't have the action header because it is an ability that doesn't consume actions to actívate (in this case it grants you a free action). The action header in a card is there to indicate that you have to spend a given action in order to activate it, not to differentiate between normal actions or free actions.

Otherwise, the paradox in which the Firespray can't use Ysard, while the Decimator can is produced, which seems pretty inconsistent. I'm on the RAI side with this.

There is no paradox. Damage Sensor Array says that you cannot perform the actions LISTED in your action bar. It does not care what the source of the action is. It does not say that you cannot use your action bar. The key word here is "listed". The only exception is cards with "ACTION:" at the beginning of their text.

Since the Firespray would have Evade on the list of actions not allowed, then Ysanne would fail to work.

Since the Decimators only illegal actions would be focus and target lock, then Ysanne would be permitted to work.

The FFG wording and intent on this is clear.

When it says "you cannot perform actions in your action bar", that means you cannot perform those actions during the activation phase, but you would still be able to use cards with the Action header at that time. You may also gain access to those abilities from other sources. With ACD, you gain a free cloak action from the card's trigger, so you would still be able to cloak even though it is also listed in your action bar.

There won't be any consensus on this until FFG makes a new FAQ. However, if I am making a TO ruling, I'm inclined at this point (which is contrary to the point I originally took) that you MAY take a free evade/cloak action.

My logic is while the DSA FAQ specifically calls out that you can do actions with the "Action:" header, the example they use is Expert Handling, where they say you can still do it if you originally had BR on your action bar. This is reads "Action: Perform a free Barrel Roll Action." So, while the action you're doing is "expert handling," you are performing a "barrel roll action" as part of the expert handling action. Which means that you can still do it, even though DSA says you cannot perform actions on your action bar.

This ruling (supplied by FFG) can be logically expanded to the case of ACD (and Ysanne) in that you can do the free action nested inside of the rest of the card. While it does not have the "Action:" header, the rest of the text reads exactly the same "Perform a free _____ Action," which FFG ruled on EH as you can still BR via EH even if you can't naturally perform BR due to DSA.

I believe FFG worded the FAQ specifically to only allow cards with the Action: header to circumvent ACD. Cards like EH that uses an Action or Free Action to trigger often mimic Standard Action, and are thus worded as granting a free action plus some additional effect. It is easy to work stuff like acquire a target lock or assign a focus token without using the word Action. Not so much for Barrel Role. Thus the word action is part of the text. And action is also used to prevent you from Barrel Rolling Twice under normal Circumstances.

Consider a ship with Makrsmanship, DSA and PtL. If you were to apply the FAQ from DSA to this situation the ship can't Barrel Role and use PtL to use Marksmanship. But it can use Marksmanship, and PtL to Barrel Role, effectively negating the effect of DSA. Had it on the other hand had EH, it could have used this action to do the Free Barrel Role and lose a target lock.

I believe FFG worded the FAQ specifically to only allow cards with the Action: header to circumvent ACD. Cards like EH that uses an Action or Free Action to trigger often mimic Standard Action, and are thus worded as granting a free action plus some additional effect. It is easy to work stuff like acquire a target lock or assign a focus token without using the word Action. Not so much for Barrel Role. Thus the word action is part of the text. And action is also used to prevent you from Barrel Rolling Twice under normal Circumstances.

Consider a ship with Makrsmanship, DSA and PtL. If you were to apply the FAQ from DSA to this situation the ship can't Barrel Role and use PtL to use Marksmanship. But it can use Marksmanship, and PtL to Barrel Role, effectively negating the effect of DSA. Had it on the other hand had EH, it could have used this action to do the Free Barrel Role and lose a target lock.

At first, I was going to completely argue that it doesn't make sense. I'll go ahead and say that the ship could NEVER take an action, and then PTL to take Marksmanship, as PTL says "take a free action shown in your action bar," and Marks is not in your action bar.

However, I do believe you are correct in a RAW context about PTL. If you have another way of taking the first action (which you always will via DSA) then you can push to take a free action in your action bar. I would have never come to this conclusion if I didn't walk through my previous comments and thought process. If you're allowed to take a free barrel roll action, then you should be able to take a free ysanne evade action, so you should be able to take a free "action off your action bar" action.

Gah... WTB FFG FAQ!

My Bad. Of cause you need EI to do Marksmanship from another Action. But PtL to BR off of Marksmanship.

Has anyone emailed FFG about this?

Edit, on second thought I think I will do it myself.

I disagree about PtL. Yes it's a free action, but that free action is specifically coming from the action bar. That's what makes the difference (and why you can't use it), not because it's a free action or not.

If an upgrade or ability grants a specific action, you can complete that action. If you have to look at your action bar to see what you can choose from, it's blocked.

Other situations get very weird. All assuming a DSA, you get Isard able to use her ability on a Decimator but not a Firespray. Turr can't barrel roll naturally or from his ability, but he can if he has Expert Handling. Jake could use his ability to perform a barrel roll, but not a boost. All that is theoretically intentional here? Color me unconvinced

Has anyone emailed FFG about this?Edit, on second thought I think I will do it myself.

I was getting tempted to shoot frank off another one myself.

Saw this happen twice tonight. Both times an ACD Phantom gets dealt a Damaged Sensor Array. Not really a rules point here, but worth mentioning that everybody witnessing those games, including me who was aware of this topic, just automatically assumed that Echo couldn't cloak again until the DSA was fixed. No hesitation, not thinking about it, absolutely no question in anyone's mind about it. It was just pure intuitive reflex that the crit stopped ACD. Even though I knew this was an ongoing topic here it didn't even occur to me until several turns after it happened the second time.

Like I said, not really an argument based on rules, but if it is that natural to do it one way, that is probably the way it will be ruled by FFG.

Like I said, not really an argument based on rules, but if it is that natural to do it one way, that is probably the way it will be ruled by FFG.

Night Beast would beg to differ.

As would the actual current DSA ruling itself, since I doubt anyone would "naturally" draw the line at "Action cards can, non-action abilities can't".

So if Jake Farrell has a Damaged Sensor Array and receives a focus token from some other card, can he perform a barrel roll? It's not in his action bar, but it is not a card with the 'action:' header either...

I would assume he cannot boost, because the boost action is in his action bar and therefore explicitly prohibited by Damaged Sensor Array.

My take is you lose your actions in your action bar but an upgrade card will override those effects and you can still use the action... basically a question of competing simultaneous instructions and which overrides which... I thought there was a post on how upgrades are overriding.

End result: you can still cloak with the damaged sensor array if you have the advanced cloak device.