I was looking at the talent port and it mentioned "massive rule." I looked in the index and couldn't find it. could someone please help and tell me what this is?

It's a rule for the bigger starships, requires additional Advantage to trigger Crits.

never mind. found it. critical ratings count as one higher against massive ships. so I guess that would mean a crit rating of 3 would be 4 instead. am I reading that right?

It's definitely in AoR...not sure about EotE. A ship's Massive rating makes it harder to score a critical hit against it. So ignoring the Massive rating means you can crit a Star Destroyer like it was a TIE fighter.

Edit: yep, what you guys said.

and how can you tell what's massive. is that compared to you. like if it is 2 silute sizes larger than yours? or is it anything over 6? and is the reverse true too? do you lower the crit rating?

If it's massive it'll say so in the ship's stat block.

If it's massive it'll say so in the ship's stat block.

thanks, helpful ghost.

My question, related to this, is: does a Triumph still allow you to crit a ship with a massive rating? If so, it kind of neuters the talent allowing you to ignore massive. If not, what does a triumph allow in that case?

A triumph is always enough to activate a crit. And it is Triumphant... not "kinda neat".

does a massive.ship.have an easier time.criting? on a smaller one I mean

Nah. The Massive thing was less concerned with ship to ship and more worried about torpedo bombers. Proton torpedoes with their Crit 2 meant it wasn't inconceivable that a handful of fighters could be getting +40 and +50 on the crit table on their second attack run.

Kinda anti-climatic to vaporize a star destroyer that easy.

A Star Destroyer really shouldn't be vaporized by Y-wing in any way, but that's an argument for another time.

Depends on the situation, but at least with massive 2 you can't just do it because you've got an y-wing per party member and everyone's got a few ranks in gunnery.

Capital ship combat is tough to play out as a GM. I usually handle it narratively, and give my Players individual parts of the ship to attack. Even then, they're never alone; a squadron or two of X-Wings, a squadron of Y's...sometimes even an allied frigate or cruiser is there to back them up and take off some of the heat.

does a massive.ship.have an easier time.criting? on a smaller one I mean

A massive ship will have minion groups of half a dozen gunners rolling 3 2 , so it's already far more likely to crit a small ship through weight of dice.

Not to mention a Star Destroyer's 72 TIE fighters. That's an awful lot of hostiles to fight your way through in order to drop some proton torpedoes, never mind coming back for a second run.

Keep in mind that the Massive rating has a number after it. So Massive 1 will add one to the advantage requirement for a critical, Massive 2 will add 2, etc.

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

1) Corvette sized craft typically don't have the Massive USR.

2) Resolving the issue of large warships by forcing the players to avoid them is very limiting when it comes time to write campaigns.

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

1) Corvette sized craft typically don't have the Massive USR.

2) Resolving the issue of large warships by forcing the players to avoid them is very limiting when it comes time to write campaigns.

I think what he was saying is that the rule is intended so that smaller ships, like the corvette or a freighter, can't easily take out a ship with a Massive rating, not that a corvette has a Massive rating.

And he's correct. I believe the issue is that critical hits can be equally debilitating to both a starfighter and a capital ship alike. If you can get enough crits on a star destroyer, you can take it out, which is a bit off-balance. The Massive rating (which, if I'm not mistaken, was suggested by HappyDaze; someone correct me if I'm wrong) is an attempt to correct the balance, so large ships can take more punishment before they get a crit, and can therefore last longer in battle, which makes sense.

And yeah, you're also right in that the capital ships are statted out for a reason, and that's so you can have cool, cinematic combats with them Of course, depending on the situation, the best defense for them might just be put to high-tail it out of there when they start firing

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

1) Corvette sized craft typically don't have the Massive USR.

2) Resolving the issue of large warships by forcing the players to avoid them is very limiting when it comes time to write campaigns.

2) this isn't an issue. You see it all the time in the movies. Star Destroyer vs Millennium Falcon. The Falcon runs and hides every time. You don't see them square off against the larger ships except when backed by larger ships of their own. This doesn't limit what the players can do. Maybe they need to sneak aboard to disable something on the ship, or plant some explosives or what not. Running is just what you do when those big ships decide that you're a target, else they are just nice backdrops for other events.

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

1) Corvette sized craft typically don't have the Massive USR.

2) Resolving the issue of large warships by forcing the players to avoid them is very limiting when it comes time to write campaigns.

2) this isn't an issue. You see it all the time in the movies. Star Destroyer vs Millennium Falcon. The Falcon runs and hides every time. You don't see them square off against the larger ships except when backed by larger ships of their own. This doesn't limit what the players can do. Maybe they need to sneak aboard to disable something on the ship, or plant some explosives or what not. Running is just what you do when those big ships decide that you're a target, else they are just nice backdrops for other events.

Yes, in many scenarios in the films you see that, and there's plenty of times when it is the appropriate method of handling it.

But that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is: When I'm sitting down to write a campaign, whatever that campaign may be, limiting capital ships to "you should run away now" or "you need to out-think it" is not a good thing. There needs to be more to such things, including the option for the GM to run it in combat if that's what the campaign's story calls for.

If your players are considering taking out a Star Destroyer, I think you're running things wrong.

I think the Massive rules are more intended to keep a heavily armed freighter from easily taking out something corvette sized, or a big luxury liner, bulk hauler, etc. Once you get into actual capital ship combat the players should be thinking more about how fast to run or where to hide or simply living through the next 60 seconds rather then fighting.

1) Corvette sized craft typically don't have the Massive USR.

2) Resolving the issue of large warships by forcing the players to avoid them is very limiting when it comes time to write campaigns.

2) this isn't an issue. You see it all the time in the movies. Star Destroyer vs Millennium Falcon. The Falcon runs and hides every time. You don't see them square off against the larger ships except when backed by larger ships of their own. This doesn't limit what the players can do. Maybe they need to sneak aboard to disable something on the ship, or plant some explosives or what not. Running is just what you do when those big ships decide that you're a target, else they are just nice backdrops for other events.

Yes, in many scenarios in the films you see that, and there's plenty of times when it is the appropriate method of handling it.

But that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is: When I'm sitting down to write a campaign, whatever that campaign may be, limiting capital ships to "you should run away now" or "you need to out-think it" is not a good thing. There needs to be more to such things, including the option for the GM to run it in combat if that's what the campaign's story calls for.

And there is, but unless the PCs have access to something comparable, then running should be what they do when a ship 1000x bigger than their little freighter shows up ready for a fight.