That said, I also like to quote Jes Goodwin here, who not only joked about "them getting bigger in every (Black Library) book", but also sagely advised that with Space Marines, "it's not about how high they stand, but how wide ".

So that's what those ginormous shoulderpads are for!

Also the proportions keep shifting: Some GW artists draw them in very odd ways. Tiney heads between maaaasive shoulder guards, giant boots, etc...

LOOK AT THIS ABOMINATION!

The giant late 90's style oversized boots! the tiney head on freakishly elongated neck!

Normaly i love Clint Langley's art style (and props for doing all the art for an entire CCG expansion, by himself) but this one, nonono. But i do like the details and coloursheme.

Your theories about Malcador being the Emperor are baseless. What really happened is that the Emperor never died from the Horus Heresy. He beat Horus getting badly injured but would have survived in full health. So why is he on the throne? The High Council did him in. They made a pact with the Chaos Gods to kill the Emperor but betrayed the Ruinous Powers. Why else is the Imperium a dead corpse obsessed wreck getting their ass kicked by almost everyone? Blame the High Lords of Terra, the bastards!

Malcador was also sadly assasinated, to ensure the full strength of the High Lords. Oh and during the Armageddon wars the Emperor somehow came back to life. He was pretty concerned with the state of things where everyone continued the Witch Hunters legacy. However before he could cry out his return the High Lords bashed him on the head and put him back on the throne. Thats what really happened.

I must admit i like this conspiracy theory. Altough if you'd read the part in Realm of chaos : Lost and the damned you wouldn't say survived full health. It's a miracle there was enough left to put on the golden throne: Broken, back, molten skin, burst eyeballs, slit throat...Horus was taking the big E apart! until a imperial fist terminator (retconned to adeptus custodes) walked in and Horus don't-bother-me-now-killed him. (Yeah, seeing Sanguinus dead, no problem. Random unnamed im fist dies: Unstoppable rage! More proof that the emperor was a ****!)

Eh, there's been a fair amount of size creep in the Space Marines over the years. Never mind the Primarchs.

Yeah, but not from GW themselves - the codices keep saying 7ft for decades now. The studio just allows licensees a fair degree of artistic license, which is why with an ever-growing number of Black Library novels and other "outsourced" material you get more and more individual ideas and interpretations of a great variety of topics, including Space Marine heights.

With the heights, perhaps it's that some authors feel they have to one-up each other, or maybe some writers just feel that bigger Marines automatically make for a more epic story (some players certainly feel that way) ... either way, that is precisely what Jes Goodwin was joking about.

The design podcast was a cool and interesting interview, in any way. If you want to give it a read listen, it's the 4th one here:

http://podbay.fm/show/287635672

So that's what those ginormous shoulderpads are for!

And you should listen to that podcast, too! In particular Jes Goodwin's remark about Astartes leaving "Looney Toons"-style holes when they jump through walls.

In regards to that drawing, I have to say it reminds me of the Space Marine cosplays you sometimes see at conventions. That said, I suppose a lot may be excused by considering that the armour also incorporates a lot of additional gadgets (drug dispenser, waste recycler, auxiliary batteries, medisuite, etc) .. and there is no reason to increase a Marine's headsize proportionally to the rest of their body. After all, how much muscle mass do you have on your skull?

The boots do look wonky, though!

True, but with some the head is a bit to small. In proportion with the rest of the body, even encased in armor.

Non- adepta sororita Power armor is big, but not that big.

And thegadgets are all tucked away real neat without adding to much bulk in odd places:

And thegadgets are all tucked away real neat without adding to much bulk in odd places:

Hum? I'd say that in that picture, the machinery easily adds anything from 20% (arms) to 100% (boots) additional bulk to the armour - before the inner layer...

Not that I disagree that the novel cover art looks a tad too bulky. But all that additional tech should not be underestimated! Marines are "big" even when naked, and the armour only makes them even broader.

Perhaps the problem with that cover is that the artist attempted to replicate the look of the miniatures too closely? And with it runs into the same "my chest is too bulky for me to cross my arms" issue. I mean, if we go by the minis, Marines aren't even physically capable of looking through their targeters. ^^'

It looks okay in certain postures that downplay this little issue (in case you ever wondered why Marine Scouts don't hold their rifles like normal snipers), but for drawings, most artists seem to make the chest a little thinner?

True, but with some the head is a bit to small. In proportion with the rest of the body, even encased in armor.

Non- adepta sororita Power armor is big, but not that big.

And thegadgets are all tucked away real neat without adding to much bulk in odd places:

From squinting at the picture the Space Marine is weilding a power fist. Nice.

Google Image search revealed this better viewable image(reuploaded to imgur):

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

Grandpa why do you have a beacked face?

All the better to peck my enemies to death my dear.

Grandpa why do you have a massive machine like fist?

All better to smash my enemies to death my dear.

And so on...

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

Google Image search revealed this better viewable image(reuploaded to imgur):

Thanks. original pic looked fine when i uploaded it. I come back to this thread the next day and it made wonder if i should start wearing glasses...

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

And only Raven Guard. (Get it?)

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

And only Raven Guard. (Get it?)

Raven guard are a bit silly. Stealth power armor, srsly? Bunch of power armored ninjas- bah!

I just realised the reason I like the Horus heresy novels is that the Alpha Legion goes around systematically effing up each legion I don't like. Go Alphas!

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

And only Raven Guard. (Get it?)

Raven guard are a bit silly. Stealth power armor, srsly? Bunch of power armored ninjas- bah!

I just realised the reason I like the Horus heresy novels is that the Alpha Legion goes around systematically effing up each legion I don't like. Go Alphas!

I love th Alpha Legion too!!! (Squeals for several minutes)

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

And only Raven Guard. (Get it?)

Raven guard are a bit silly. Stealth power armor, srsly? Bunch of power armored ninjas- bah!

I just realised the reason I like the Horus heresy novels is that the Alpha Legion goes around systematically effing up each legion I don't like. Go Alphas!

I love th Alpha Legion too!!! (Squeals for several minutes)

Wait! Misha? aren't you an imperia- oooh... FOR THE EMPEROR!... I get it! ;)

You just couldn't help it, could you? It HAD to be a Beak Marine. Sad that the picture doesn't show the extra lunch he's hiding in that thing.

It's from the space marine (aka Epic) game. from the late 80s:early 90's

Back then there were only beak marines!

And only Raven Guard. (Get it?)

Raven guard are a bit silly. Stealth power armor, srsly? Bunch of power armored ninjas- bah!

I just realised the reason I like the Horus heresy novels is that the Alpha Legion goes around systematically effing up each legion I don't like. Go Alphas!

I love th Alpha Legion too!!! (Squeals for several minutes)

Wait! Misha? aren't you an imperia- oooh... FOR THE EMPEROR!... I get it! ;)

On the topic of Custodes vs Astartes. This actually comes up a lot in the Horus Heresy books.

The nutshell being that the Astartes are supposed to be the ultimate soldiers, great at working together, etc. Custodes the ultimate warriors. One on one the Astartes generally lose. 10 on 10? More likely the Marines that win because they're better at working together.

In general I'd say yeah, Custodes have a slight edge, but plenty of the named marines have sparred to near parity with named custodes. So, it's not too different ultimately. That being said, Custodes definitely get the better tech.

A lot of tl;dr involved but also Custodes tend to practice assassination scenarios, how to assassinate and also to counter these threats given that its their job to watch out for such things. Odds are these guys are able to catch out the Officio Assassionorum as it's in their job spec to know about it.