Dont know what forum to place this in, but what would an Adeptus Custodes have in stats? Is he like a space marine?

No... they are better.

Space Marines are a crude, mass produced (sort of) version of a supersoldier project, that probably went into full deployment too quickly, before all the bugs could get ironed out.

The Custodes, by contrast, are a limited run of a carefully designed supersoldier project that was given plenty of time to work out the kinks.

In ye olden days of the Emperor, back in the days of the Legions, the Legionnaires numbered in the millions. The Custodes numbered around ten thousand.

In car terms, Astartes = Ford Pinto, Custodes = Ferrari, Primarch = Lamborghini.

Well, maybe not Ford Pintos, but you get the general point.

So in game-stats, how do you improve on the already near perfect Space Marine?
What would a generic Custodes look like?

Besides being physicaly better than space marines, the Custodes are made to function independantly, where as the space marines are made to function as part of companies and armies, and to rely on other space marines for tactical reasons.

So I think that that should at least be reflected when it comes to solo- and squad mode abilities and cohesion.

Maybe give them some new speciel solo mode abilities and no squad mode.

Possibly give the Custodes Unnatural Agility as well. Also, probably higher base stats. Were we looking at a flat modifier for Unnaturals, I'd say up the modifiers on Unnatural Strength and Toughness, but with multiplicative modifiers, not sure about that.

A much wider array of skills and talents. Probably just start them with paragon skills/talents (DH Ascension).

Default gear of good or best quality, not common.

Custodes should not be considered Playable Characters. At all. Since the End of the Horus Heresy, and the Emperor being installed in the Golden Throne, none of them have left the Palace. So the only way you run into one is (a) being in the Palace, and probably the inner portions closer to the Emperor/his residence within the Palace, or (b) find a stasis casket with one dating from the days of the Heresy or the Great Crusade, which probably means a ship lost in the warp/a warpstorm until now, or on a space hulk with a ship dating from the appropriate timeframe.

And they could have some great equipment, like their armor (either BQ power armor, or Artificer Armor, maybe BQ AA, but that could be pushing; a gold affair, like His, with helmets that make the Eldar swoon), if they are still wearing it when you use it (the Custodes usually seem to favor black leather stuff now, in order to reflect their mourning of, and failure of the Emperor. They also have really cool glaives, called Guardian Spears, which are a combination power/Force weapon and bolt gun, so they didn't need to change weapons between combat stages, and an extra power gladius, for if things went pear-shaped. They also used to have other Astartes-like gear, like landspeeders, and such.

All in all, each one is considerably better than a Space Marine, somewhere on par with how much better said Astartes is to a Guardsman, and their eternal access to the best science, coupled with cybernetic augmentation, vs deteriorating gene-seed organs, keeps them at 100% efficiency. Their only limits are a prohibitive expense in manufacture, and a limit to range of activity consisting of Earth, mostly the Palace; they are the greatest of warriors, but will only be put to work defending His home and self. If Goge Vandire hadn't set himself up on Terra, he might've stayed in power a lot longer.

They would probably have Pure Faith to right? With the Powers from Blood of Martyrs?
But no psychic abilities?

The Custodes can be as powerful as you like, and have as many abilities as you like - very little is known about them, and even less is consistent across multiple sources, so it is a question of how you interpret this body of warriors.

If you wish to go by some official example, I suppose you'd be more interested in the more popular gold-armoured, overpowered HH-novel version, rather than Games Workshop's original vision ?

So in game-stats, how do you improve on the already near perfect Space Marine?

What would a generic Custodes look like?

I would probably bump their physical stats - i.e. Strength, Toughness and Agility up by 10-20, on average. Then do the Unnatural for all 3. Intelligence and Perception would likely be similar. Fellowship would be in the toilet... think 15-20. WS and BS would likely be slightly higher, but nowhere near the difference of the physical characteristics.

They would probably have Pure Faith to right? With the Powers from Blood of Martyrs?

But no psychic abilities?

Pure Faith and Faith Powers? Absolutely not. These are the Custodes - they, as an institution, and many as individuals , remember the Emperor of Mankind, and what His vision for the Imperium was .

They remember that the Emperor proclaimed himself to be the Emperor, and explicitly not the God-Emperor. They remember His campaign to stamp out superstition, religion, and His chastisement of Lorgar and the Word Bearers for proclaiming his Godhood. They remember the Imperial Truth.

It is very possible that some of the Custodes could have psychic powers, and they'd be very powerful and very well practiced, and very unlikely to invoke warp phenomena or perils.

They remember that the Emperor proclaimed himself to be the Emperor, and explicitly not the God-Emperor. They remember His campaign to stamp out superstition, religion, and His chastisement of Lorgar and the Word Bearers for proclaiming his Godhood. They remember the Imperial Truth.

That is only one of several contradictory versions of history.

It is also possible that, just like 99% of the rest of the Imperium, the Custodes have changed over the millennia.

Furthermore, there is the question of what "Faith Powers" are exactly, and where they originate. Are they a gift from the Emperor himself? Or are they summoned by the faithful? If the former, why couldn't the Emperor grant these powers to the Custodes as well? And, if the latter, do you really have to be religious , or just have similarly strong convictions on any altruistic topic, such as one's sacred duty as an Imperial bodyguard?

I am not actually advocating this, as it runs contrary to my own chosen interpretation of the setting. However, OP needs to be aware of all the options they have, and that there is no wrong answer here, rather than being goaded into conforming to the oft-proclaimed belief that there is only "one truth" for the background of this franchise.

my interpretation is they are:

• Adeptus astartes 2.0 (Faster, stronger, tougher, smarter)
• Share/made from the Emperor's DNA (does the big E have gene-seed?)
• Are the ultimate bodyguards, with very keen minds, not just dumb muscle.
• Absolutly loyal
• Should have some resistance to daemonic possession/powers (the whole thing with them having mega-long names)

Ofcourse that's my view of heresy era custodes based on the HH novels.*

* No that is a lie, in my head they were also infiltrated by the Alpha legion

The Emperor is in my interpretation is the Primarch of the Legion Custodes. They are (were) his legion, a small but deadly one. I actually wouldn't make the Custodes super powered because their strength lies in gear and skills not really extra intelligence, strength and endurance.

The Emperor is in my interpretation is the Primarch of the Legion Custodes. They are (were) his legion, a small but deadly one. I actually wouldn't make the Custodes super powered because their strength lies in gear and skills not really extra intelligence, strength and endurance.

...or... you could subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Malcador is actually the Emperor... and the Emperor as we know him as actually Primarch 0

The Emperor is in my interpretation is the Primarch of the Legion Custodes. They are (were) his legion, a small but deadly one. I actually wouldn't make the Custodes super powered because their strength lies in gear and skills not really extra intelligence, strength and endurance.

...or... you could subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Malcador is actually the Emperor... and the Emperor as we know him as actually Primarch 0

Huh. I always thought the conspiracy was Malcador was the Emperor's biological son; or one of them, anyways.

Never heard that one before. I actually think of all the conspiracy theories, the malcador being the Emperor made the most since. If the Emperor was supposed to have been chillin' with mankind for tens of thousands of years, it would be hard to hide an 8-foot tall one. Malcador being a normal looking human would/could fit in. Needing a face for mankind, he created the Emperor that we know to serve as the exemplar.

I do like that conspiracy theory, Altough the emperor has the ability to disguise himself...like apearing as a normal human with a staff and robes and then revaling himself in his 8-foot tall full armored (!) true form. And then punching leman Russ in the face with a powerfist.

I do like that conspiracy theory, Altough the emperor has the ability to disguise himself...like apearing as a normal human with a staff and robes and then revaling himself in his 8-foot tall full armored (!) true form. And then punching leman Russ in the face with a powerfist.

Some of that may well have been technology. For example, per Horus Heresy, the Adeptus Custodes at least, and possibly some of the Astartes Legions (looking at you Alpha Legion), had 'displacer' or 'displacement' fields, that allowed them to masquerade as normally sized humans.

Never heard that one before. I actually think of all the conspiracy theories, the malcador being the Emperor made the most since. If the Emperor was supposed to have been chillin' with mankind for tens of thousands of years, it would be hard to hide an 8-foot tall one. Malcador being a normal looking human would/could fit in. Needing a face for mankind, he created the Emperor that we know to serve as the exemplar.

I think that I like this. Anybody remember what supposedly happened to Malcador, then? That's probably the biggest problem with that theory - The Emperor got shanked by Horus, but Malcador should still have been around to fix him up/clone his body and transfer his memories.

Edit: Died on the Golden Throne/crumbled to dust because it burned him out. That nixes Malcador= real Emperor for me.

I do like that conspiracy theory, Altough the emperor has the ability to disguise himself...like apearing as a normal human with a staff and robes and then revaling himself in his 8-foot tall full armored (!) true form. And then punching leman Russ in the face with a powerfist.

Some of that may well have been technology. For example, per Horus Heresy, the Adeptus Custodes at least, and possibly some of the Astartes Legions (looking at you Alpha Legion), had 'displacer' or 'displacement' fields, that allowed them to masquerade as normally sized humans.

Never heard that one before. I actually think of all the conspiracy theories, the malcador being the Emperor made the most since. If the Emperor was supposed to have been chillin' with mankind for tens of thousands of years, it would be hard to hide an 8-foot tall one. Malcador being a normal looking human would/could fit in. Needing a face for mankind, he created the Emperor that we know to serve as the exemplar.

I think that I like this. Anybody remember what supposedly happened to Malcador, then? That's probably the biggest problem with that theory - The Emperor got shanked by Horus, but Malcador should still have been around to fix him up/clone his body and transfer his memories.

Edit: Died on the Golden Throne/crumbled to dust because it burned him out. That nixes Malcador= real Emperor for me.

Asuming the one they put on the throne was Malcador...

I do like that conspiracy theory, Altough the emperor has the ability to disguise himself...like apearing as a normal human with a staff and robes and then revaling himself in his 8-foot tall full armored (!) true form. And then punching leman Russ in the face with a powerfist.

Some of that may well have been technology. For example, per Horus Heresy, the Adeptus Custodes at least, and possibly some of the Astartes Legions (looking at you Alpha Legion), had 'displacer' or 'displacement' fields, that allowed them to masquerade as normally sized humans.

Never heard that one before. I actually think of all the conspiracy theories, the malcador being the Emperor made the most since. If the Emperor was supposed to have been chillin' with mankind for tens of thousands of years, it would be hard to hide an 8-foot tall one. Malcador being a normal looking human would/could fit in. Needing a face for mankind, he created the Emperor that we know to serve as the exemplar.

I think that I like this. Anybody remember what supposedly happened to Malcador, then? That's probably the biggest problem with that theory - The Emperor got shanked by Horus, but Malcador should still have been around to fix him up/clone his body and transfer his memories.

Edit: Died on the Golden Throne/crumbled to dust because it burned him out. That nixes Malcador= real Emperor for me.

Asuming the one they put on the throne was Malcador...

So wtf happened to the real Malcador/Emperor? Assuming he's the real Emperor, he would have survived the Throne, and then he'd've been around to put things back together.

Me, I think Malcador's the Emperor's biological descendant, or one of them, though probably not his son, though maybe a grandchild, or further down the line of descent.

As for the Emperor, he's tall for a human, but he's not as tall as an Astartes - easily 2 meters (about 6 foot 7), which is tall, but not too absurdly tall to blend with the bulk of humanity. Power armor would add around 10cm/4 inches; well, light or heavy armor might be different, and wearing/not wearing a helmet would affect the height increase as well.

Also, in my headcanon, Astartes (and Primarchs) aren't really that much huger than the tall end of humans. I mean, they'd be automatic first picks for linesmen on a football (American) team, and as tall as a tall basketball player, but, they're still only 2 meters and change, maybe 2.3 meters (7 foot 7), and 2.4 (almost 8 feet) or so in power armor. And it's all muscle, which pushes weight up, but still, they're at the very top of the human range, not absurdly beyond it (3 meters plus) as is often depicted.

Also, in my headcanon, Astartes (and Primarchs) aren't really that much huger than the tall end of humans. I mean, they'd be automatic first picks for linesmen on a football (American) team, and as tall as a tall basketball player, but, they're still only 2 meters and change, maybe 2.3 meters (7 foot 7), and 2.4 (almost 8 feet) or so in power armor. And it's all muscle, which pushes weight up, but still, they're at the very top of the human range, not absurdly beyond it (3 meters plus) as is often depicted.

Yeah, your numbers are only slightly above what GW themselves have written/drawn - with 3m+ I'd have trouble thinking about how they would fit into an APC originally designed for civilian human colonists. That said, I also like to quote Jes Goodwin here, who not only joked about "them getting bigger in every (Black Library) book", but also sagely advised that with Space Marines, "it's not about how high they stand, but how wide ".

Asuming the one they put on the throne was Malcador...

DUN DUN DUNNN...

Also, in my headcanon, Astartes (and Primarchs) aren't really that much huger than the tall end of humans. I mean, they'd be automatic first picks for linesmen on a football (American) team, and as tall as a tall basketball player, but, they're still only 2 meters and change, maybe 2.3 meters (7 foot 7), and 2.4 (almost 8 feet) or so in power armor. And it's all muscle, which pushes weight up, but still, they're at the very top of the human range, not absurdly beyond it (3 meters plus) as is often depicted.

Yeah, your numbers are only slightly above what GW themselves have written/drawn - with 3m+ I'd have trouble thinking about how they would fit into an APC originally designed for civilian human colonists. That said, I also like to quote Jes Goodwin here, who not only joked about "them getting bigger in every (Black Library) book", but also sagely advised that with Space Marines, "it's not about how high they stand, but how wide ".

Eh, there's been a fair amount of size creep in the Space Marines over the years. Never mind the Primarchs.

And let's not even get started on the pauldron size creep.

I'm sure that in the early days, Astartes were basically upper end of human norms. Nowadays, they're often represented as being well past numan norms, and the Primarchs even further.

Your theories about Malcador being the Emperor are baseless. What really happened is that the Emperor never died from the Horus Heresy. He beat Horus getting badly injured but would have survived in full health. So why is he on the throne? The High Council did him in. They made a pact with the Chaos Gods to kill the Emperor but betrayed the Ruinous Powers. Why else is the Imperium a dead corpse obsessed wreck getting their ass kicked by almost everyone? Blame the High Lords of Terra, the bastards!

Malcador was also sadly assasinated, to ensure the full strength of the High Lords. Oh and during the Armageddon wars the Emperor somehow came back to life. He was pretty concerned with the state of things where everyone continued the Witch Hunters legacy. However before he could cry out his return the High Lords bashed him on the head and put him back on the throne. Thats what really happened.

I subscribe to the power creep, too. At the beginning, they were probably not too much bigger than "average" people, since they were designed, and apart from a slightly more substantial stature, to make room for extra muscle mass, and the bonus organs, there isn't really a great reason to make them towering monoliths, but as the stories got told and retold, the figures grew in size, like Heracles probably did (from lifting a felled tree, and killing a bear that threatened people to holding up the sky, and crushing the Nemean Lion, and of course, to do those types of things, he'd need divine parentage, and the God isn't likely to appear and counter it), and as they were more an d more an inspiration to the people who need something to hope with, seeing as everything else in the galaxy seems to want to kill them, and nothing else till that's done, their need for "larger than life" heroes would also grow their stature, as they "stand above all men, glowing beacons of inspiration". Potentially, one can also say that, as the technology has improved, and the Space Marines are their bread-and-butter babies, they have improved the detail on some models, and in order to visually demonstrate that, GW needed slightly bigger models.

I really hope that the Emperor I know is Him, Malcador was the Malcador, and crumbled, et al. The above is not a conspiracy theory I like, even if it is interesting. At least for me, that is one part of the story that I don't feel needs/needed senationalism and cover-up, while the High Lords wrote some hair-brained plot, and keep the Emperor a prisoner. That's just me, of course. I do wish that some aspects of the story would start to move, again, though, and at least this is sort of that. Could be cool to play in a later-era game, where, at least in that little world, things move, and maybe Chaos grabs Cadia (hell no, screw Chaos! For the Emperor! For Cadia!!), maybe the Emperor dies, or wakes up, whatever.