Id like to see a Basic III deck in one of the comming expansions because i feel that this is one of the central pieces of the game which should have more variety to choose from just as the heros, classes, OL classes, plot decks, monsters and quests.

While another choice for a Basic Deck would be nice, I don't know that one is really necessary- the customizability of the OL deck is already extensive between the two decks and.... 8 classes? Granted, some of the classes work best when you invest lots of XP in one class (infector, for example) but many of the others are very useful to just pick one or 2 cards from. In some ways, the OL already has more freedom to customize than the heroes do- and that's excluding the use of a plot deck.

I very rarely don't take both imploding rift and web trap, for example. 1 XP cards that can shut down multiple heroes? Yes please.

Having 15 cards to start with and then ~8XP to spent only on good 1XP cards maybe (and this is already the extreme case) still leaves you with ~7 cards eigther from Basic I or Basic II. And that is only for the last mission of a campaign. so ramping up from quest 1 to 9 on average leaves you playing with 11 out of 15 cards from eigther Basic I or Basic II. This the least customizable among all other points mentioned while beeing the "core" element of "surprise" or hidden card play at the OLs disposal (where the surprise/card element is imo an important component of what the OL is) which is why i would love some more deck choices here.

Having 15 cards to start with and then ~8XP to spent only on good 1XP cards maybe (and this is already the extreme case) still leaves you with ~7 cards eigther from Basic I or Basic II. And that is only for the last mission of a campaign. so ramping up from quest 1 to 9 on average leaves you playing with 11 out of 15 cards from eigther Basic I or Basic II. This the least customizable among all other points mentioned afaik which is why i would love some more deck choices here.

I see your point- but on the other hand, you make it sound like having cards left over from basic or basic 2 is a bad thing. For example, 2x Dash and 2x Frenzy? Unless I have a really good reason, those cards aren't getting sidelined if I'm using basic 1 (2x dark might is also not likely going anywhere.) Same with Uncontrolled Power and Dirty Fighting in basic 2- there are really only a few cards that you end up getting "stuck with."

I am not arguing against another basic deck- more content is almost never a bad thing- I just personally have never felt like I didn't have choices to make as an OL.

Having cards "left over from from Basic 1 and Basic 2" which are the same cards like frenzy and dash in every campaign lacks variety. This might also be a little critique on "Webtrap", but at least this good card is optional. Im not saying frenzy and dash are bad cards. Exspecially one plain extra attack or move action just appears like something like the gold standard.

I realy did like the mimic and grease trap cards for the different flavor they bring to the deck. Also i realy like that they keep adding OL classes. It is just that the OL class only ever define ~50% of the OL deck. By playing the Hero side you completly exchange your "deck" of skills and possible also playstyle by changing the archetype.

I do think that adding Basic III might be difficult from the design and balance perspective as the current i.e. race quests are somehow balanced/play tested for i.e. 2 dash similar cards available to the OL. A Basic III deck would have to be balanced against all published campaigns. Exspecialy with the imo very fragile balance of asymetrical gameplay it seems like a good idea to keep 50% of at least one of the two sides as a fix point. But thats FFGs job and not mine and they did it surprisingly well so far for this game imo.

Maybe its a bit much to ask as the game is realy already highly customizable and the asymetrical sides differ a lot. Just saying that the Basic deck is currently the one point which is the most fixed in gameplay and therefore any additional content done here would have the highest impact on overall variety which is why i would like to see Basic III.

I have difficulty picturing what a basic deck 3 would even look like. I can't imagine it being unique, distinct and interesting while also being on an approximately equal power level to the other 2. There are only so many things you can do with overlord cards that you get to start the game with.

yea it would need some good ideas. from Basic 1 to 2 they i.e. introduced the "if this card is played on that archetype" mechanic which is new and nice while at the same time keeping cards in basic 2 which just mimic (... ) dash and frenzy to some extend as those effects just seem to be required for quest balance.

so i guess it would be other forms/variations of mandatory effects like dash plus some extras like mimic and grease trap.

I dont think its realistic to do a basic deck completly without i.e. dash similar effects. But still as they showed you can do some variations of the plain dash just to spice things up.

I don't think it's a bad idea - like at all. I also sometimes feel that I´m stuck with the same cards all over again, even if I love many of these cards. I don't see why there wouldn't be any room for a new type of OL card design.

The problem I have however is that it's very easy for me to just stick to Web Trap, Imploding Rift and Blood Rage instead of digging deeper into a class. Even the raven flock is fine as a level 1 card without all the boosts. I feel like the power level of most level 2-3 cards does rarely outclass some of the basic cards you get from start. I have been tempted to just stick to these extra lvl 1 cards and then just fill the deck with utility cards like Plan Ahead. Also because I don't know if I can get the card I´m saving for, I want a card that will matter straight away. Heck, even buying Expert Blow which is a fine level 2 card is hard to justify sometimes when you can just have some nice level 1 Shadowmancer cards instead that don't require you to "do nothing" during campaign phase. Heroes always get new gear and even if they´re saving both gold and XP they always have something new coming to the table, something that will matter. Saving up for a nice card can be rewarding, but it's very expensive, you don't get the guarantee to draw it, you don't get the guarantee to find situations where to use it... you don't get the guarantee the heroes won't make you discard it...

It's also the fact that certain classes feel completely lackluster at level 1 level (Magus, Punisher, Enchanter) and therefore I never get the reason to purchase these over a good old Web Trap. XP is a scarce resource so it has to be spent on cards that matter, not on enablers or unlockers. Maybe the point I´m trying to make is that Basic does not feel like a temporary set of cards you´re going to replace progressively as you purchase new cards, but more like the very core of the deck where you cut the fat and add the "extras". As opposed to actually choosing a path dictated by a class and wrapping the core of this class with Basic cards to make it whole and all-around.

Basic III would be cool I guess!

I have a problem with understanding Magus deck possibilities. Word of Pain looks so weak in my eyes. Diabolic Power, while good, costs to much for support card. World of despair seems decent enought, but to take it you have to take World of Pain, you have no alternative route, so you will have to take it even if all heroes have nice strength atribute. It is hard for me to properly evaluate Rise again and Unholy Ritual, but for now I dont feel they are good enough. Maybe it is better if you play Merrick Farrow Plot Deck, but again I fail to see this as a strong choice. Maybe Im wrong and just dont see obvious?

You know what, I was going mental on an idea yesterday when talking to a friend and thought it could have been this Basic III deck we´re talking about.

Why not making a Basic deck based on which monsters/lieutenant you choose for the quest. Each monster group would provide you with a set of abilities (cards) you can choose from, all tied to what the monster is - or does. You pick the ones you want for each group, say 2-3 cards each, you mix all of this and add a few specialist cards (class) to the pile to make your deck.

I don't mean these cards would only have an effect on their respective monster group, but thematically you could choose this Web Trap coming from the Cave Spiders group. It could also be some effect that has extra relevance for the monster group, like a one-off double attack, or anything breaking the otherwise rather boring scheme of actions every monster group has in the game.

The heroes have an idea about which abilities you may have taken for for these monster groups (based on experience), but they don't know which ones exactly. You still need to draw the cards obviously. That sounds more interesting than having them know at all times that you have Dash in your deck.

On the other hand the quest restrictions for monster traits means you can't just pick anything you want, so that seems quite balanced to me, and thematically richer.

A trait based OL deck is a really interesting idea- but I feel like we've already (sort of) got that with plot decks. Those lieutenant packs add a lot of variety to the OL builds. You can be a basic 2 punisher with a focus in hot monsters (gargan), or you can instead have tricks ready when using wilderness monsters (queen ariad), etc. i am not really one to use lieutenant packs as a key part of my strategy (i currently own just 3) but they do function like a secondary class- and just like your basic cards, you must pick it and stick with it for the whole campaign.

A trait based OL deck is a really interesting idea- but I feel like we've already (sort of) got that with plot decks. Those lieutenant packs add a lot of variety to the OL builds. You can be a basic 2 punisher with a focus in hot monsters (gargan), or you can instead have tricks ready when using wilderness monsters (queen ariad), etc. i am not really one to use lieutenant packs as a key part of my strategy (i currently own just 3) but they do function like a secondary class- and just like your basic cards, you must pick it and stick with it for the whole campaign.

See that's the thing, I don't see these plot decks as OL cards. I get they´re powers printed on cards that are face up and always available, but to me that's completely against the OL card flow and belong to an entirely different process. To me it feels like they should represent the OL as a person and not a lieutenant. You shouldn't borrow these powers, YOU as the evil individual plotting against the world should have these powers. And to regulate these powers you should have the class system to improve them (levels), and you shouldn't be paying a single dime for it. Well, there should be a price for using an ability sometimes, like exhausting for the rest of the encounter/quest or claiming life from your monsters, or even discard a OL card in exchange of the powerful effect you´re going to get, because it is the price of blood or whatever, but giving fortune? That's anti-thematic and makes zero sense at all.

You as the OL grow in power as the campaign progresses. Face up cards, why not, heroes know who they´re dealing with. They know what you are capable of. That's the Plot deck to me, and it's nothing to do with the quests themselfes...

...because here we go: you have individual quests, and even more individual encounters. Each quest has its location with its unique layout and mechanisms. Why would evil forces in the dungeon always play the same powers against the heroes? If you enter a cave full with spiders why wouldn't you get to be challenged by events or dangers that are related to these settings? I just like the idea of adjusting the OL abilities based on the environment. And to me that means the monsters, because the environment tells you which monster traits you have access to.

Monster traits give you enough variation on the monsters you can pick to broaden up your tactical choices. And Descent is a tactical game. Basically, not getting stuck with Shifting Earth and Crushing Exhaustion and that's it. Isn't it a bit boring to know these cards are always there? It's part of the psychological game but still.. Also punishment mechanisms for playing your deck have never been appealing to me. I get that there is a reverse side of the medal when you invoke dark forces to achieve your goals, but I would at least made that symetrical between the OL and the heroes. Army of the Dead doesn't give me skeletons. Having the Bard shout out a song doesn't attract more monsters. I´m going nuts here so I´ll stop before the non-sense, but hopefully you see what I mean.

I don't like plot decks in general because they are very restrictive and I don't find them fun to use at all, and not only for me as the OL. Whereas 6-10 monster groups per trait give you enough choice to customize a OL deck EVERY QUEST. Read: you play with a new core deck every quest, plus obviously your class on top of that.

I mean, we´re not going to redesign the whole game and touch the Plot decks, I was getting a bit dragged away out of passion, but what about introducing a deck of cards entirely based on Monster Traits, or a combination of them?

Don't touch the monster groups themselves (because it would be a bit heavy to implement), but throw the thematics behind monster traits into these OL cards to better represent the dangers of the location heroes are going to be visiting.

And maybe then make some of these cards a useful addition to the monster groups sharing the same trait? Heck, you could split the card in two saying that you have a powerful effect on monsters sharing the same trait but that you could also play the same card on a monster with different trait for weaker effect?

I think that opens up a lot of things.

That would be my vision of an original and tactically interesting Basic III deck.

It's a cool idea, sort of a twist on basic 2, but instead of playing off archetypes, plays off monster traits.

I think that would be an interesting, new mechanic.

Something like:

Gloom:

Play immediately when a hero passes an attribute test. That hero must reroll and thake the new result.

Dark: If the hero fails the attribute test, Monsters with the Dark subtype heal 1 damage.

and

Backlash:

Play immediately after a hero attacks a monster, after rolling dice. He tests Might. If he fails you choose how he spends his surges. The attacks gains surge: -1 damage.

Fire: If the target is a monster of the Fire subtype, the attack also gains Surge: inflict 2 damage on the attacking hero