I have been away from the game for about three months and have not picked up Rebel Aces, YT-2400 or the Decimator and I have not had a chance to play against the later two big ships.

I have an event coming up very soon and I am assuming that I will see a lot of large ships so
I was planning on bringing a 7 tie swarm or maybe a 6 tie elite swarm as a counter. Am I right to assume I will see a lot of large ships? Will this be a successful counter?

I am questioning it as I was checking recent tournament winner lists and did not see many tie swarms...

Thanks in advance.

Play 8 or don't bother. Obviously tie swarm CAN always win, but against good dash players and/or EU hans the formation flying can be rough (straight up death sentence against dash). You're better off having more bodies and being able to fly more freely (no howlrunner) because at some point, the only way to reliably beat the big ships is to block them and pound them (though of course if you do that, you're in great shape).

But ya, if you play it with a slightly different mentality from before, it's still pretty good.

In my limited experience (very limited) it's rough against e wings with sheilds re growing.

2 attack dice against thee sheilds, 3 agi and decent manoeuvrability is difficult to deal with.

thing is, it still beats the vast majority of normal lists with total ease, but several of the meta lists are terrifically awful match-ups, and named phantoms still eat you alive. it can do very well, but it largely depends what you get drawn against. i'm fairly sure i'll be taking mine to the SCs.

You will see a lot of big ships.

I think the tie swarm is still viable and powerful

I will take a Fat Han/Corran or maybe a Chiraneau/Vessery to a tournament soon, and i can tell you i am not that much afraid of a Tie Swarms. My 2 ships will reliably kill one per turn and if i do not get totally blocked, i will see enemy firepower diminish so fast that in the end when i lose acship, the other can bring it home for me

I think the tie swarm is still viable and powerful

You took the words straight out of my mouth sir.

I'm taking my Power Ranger list to a tournament this weekend. Last time I flew it, I managed to crush everything I faced. Granted there were no Decimators, Outriders, or Phantoms. Took down 1 of 2 in a double falcon list in one round of shooting. Hoping the lack of "super pro" phantom players and no Fat Hans(only one other local player has a C-3PO card) will lead to another easy victory. Lots of decimator players, and I see a swarm melting that pretty quick with 15 attack dice per turn.

Soontir + PTL (White Ranger)

Howlrunner (Pink Ranger)

Dark Curse (Black Ranger)

Academy Pilots x 3 (Other Rangers)

To be honest I feel like the TIE Swarm still is one of the staple lists of the current meta. Sure, the shine has come off just a bit from this list with Large-Based turreted ships with EU that do a fine job of out maneuvering them. However as the meta evolves, so to must the Swarm players. They have to break up those boxes of TIE and stop the formation flying to compete. When formation flying is taken out of the equation, Holwrunner loser a little bit of her shine as well.

Overall I have beat Fat Han, Super Dash and Decimator s of Doom lists all with TIE swarms. It CAN be done. However it does take a lot more thought, you need to be able to react to the list you are playing against and learn how to break up and fly the swarm differently.

Doug Kinney had a great article on how to fly a swarm in the new meta...called it the drunken shark. I HIGHLY recommend you checking it out!

Fat Falcons? Easy

Decimators? No problem

Super Dash? Go H.A.M and you should be alright with Tie manueverability

Phantoms? ...****

Took them to third place in a recent local tourney and would've taken first if I hadn't had the typical misfortune of running into the only player with a phantom and no decimator.

Slapping VI on Howl at least gives you one Tie that can dodge the phantom, but that thing is a problem. Not that you can't completely control its decloaks with 7-8 ties, but it's basically impossible to hit it with 2 dice.

Been trying to vary my swarm by cutting down on Ties for something that can hit the phantom. The Soontir variant was something I had my eyes on, but first I'm going to try out a doom shuttle. It's a very under-estimated ship, but I believe it could work wonders if positioned well relative to the Ties and threatening zones you don't want the phantom to be in.

I will take a Fat Han/Corran or maybe a Chiraneau/Vessery to a tournament soon, and i can tell you i am not that much afraid of a Tie Swarms. My 2 ships will reliably kill one per turn and if i do not get totally blocked, i will see enemy firepower diminish so fast that in the end when i lose acship, the other can bring it home for me

A decent tie swarm will totally block you. But in an official tournament, the clock will probably save you.

EvilEd said it pretty well. It is still a solid squad, but you need to adapt how you play a bit.

And, if you were out of the game for a few months, make sure you actually practice against fast turrets, Phantoms, etc, before the tourney to at least get a feel for how those ships will set up and move to beat out your swarm. Lots of guns is a good answer for the turrets, sure, but any turret player will also know this and have a strategy in place to take on the swarm.

Maybe, I've just had so many times when I've blocked a predator Chewie or somesuch consistently and just had my ships picked off anyway. I just don't feel like the 2 attack ships really work anymore even against fat Falcons. It's a small amount, but the added damage mitigation means they will take down your firepower faster than you can score hits. I want to keep trying, but am not sanguine about it.

From the results I've seen for Store Championships in my area, TIE Swarms aren't faring too well.

The only thing TIE swarm lacks in the current meta is its age. People have already done it, and they have moved on to new things. That being said TIE Swarms are still pretty strong against most of what people are playing

Maybe, I've just had so many times when I've blocked a predator Chewie or somesuch consistently and just had my ships picked off anyway. I just don't feel like the 2 attack ships really work anymore even against fat Falcons. It's a small amount, but the added damage mitigation means they will take down your firepower faster than you can score hits. I want to keep trying, but am not sanguine about it.

I've certainly felt that way about Z-95s (not enough damage dealt for damage taken), but not about my Tie Swarm

The added maneuverability, green die, and evade action keep them in the game for so much longer (barring malicious green dice...which happen)

Blocking doesn't help too much, though, unless you're blocking with a tie on the verge of death to extend its lifespan. Ideally, you want all guns blazing from range 2-3 and can't afford to block unless it wouldn't get getting a shot anyway.

Fatties go down eventually, it just takes dedication

I will take a Fat Han/Corran or maybe a Chiraneau/Vessery to a tournament soon, and i can tell you i am not that much afraid of a Tie Swarms. My 2 ships will reliably kill one per turn and if i do not get totally blocked, i will see enemy firepower diminish so fast that in the end when i lose acship, the other can bring it home for me

yep, han and corran didnt do to well today

I will take a Fat Han/Corran or maybe a Chiraneau/Vessery to a tournament soon, and i can tell you i am not that much afraid of a Tie Swarms. My 2 ships will reliably kill one per turn and if i do not get totally blocked, i will see enemy firepower diminish so fast that in the end when i lose acship, the other can bring it home for me

yep, han and corran didnt do to well today

And against Han it was what? 12 hits out of 13 rolled dies without rerolls and only one focus. And not one rolled evade again.

While i score 4 R1 hits and 3 evades plus token are rolled.

All that does was basically prove that if you hit everything and no evades are rolled ships die fast. And that Ties don't die if you roll a lot of evades. That's not new.

I will take a Fat Han/Corran or maybe a Chiraneau/Vessery to a tournament soon, and i can tell you i am not that much afraid of a Tie Swarms. My 2 ships will reliably kill one per turn and if i do not get totally blocked, i will see enemy firepower diminish so fast that in the end when i lose acship, the other can bring it home for me

yep, han and corran didnt do to well today

I still don't know, In the end i had rolled 12 evades for one Focus on Corran.

And against Han it was what? 12 hits out of 13 rolled dies without rerolls and only one focus. And not one rolled evade again. All that does was basically prove that if you hit everything and no evades are rolled ships die fast.

<--

Never count on green dice

Alright, thanks for the great replies everyone. I might as well share the two lists I am considering.

This is originally what I was planning on bringing.

• Howlrunner - Hull Upgrade (21)
• Black Squadron Pilot - Draw Their Fire (15)
• Academy Pilot (12)
• Academy Pilot (12)
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)

with the 3 OSP running as a box and the other 4 running as a box.

And now based on these comments about the Phantom problems I am considering

• Howlrunner - Veteran Instincts (19)

• Black Squadron Pilot - Draw Their Fire (15)
• Academy Pilot (12)
• Academy Pilot (12)
• Mauler Mithel - Veteran Instincts (18)

• Omicron Group Pilot - Darth Vader (24)

With the top 4 in a box and the other two flanking. Hopefully dealing some Vader damage to a Phantom.

----

Thoughts? Should I stick to my original swarm plan or dilute it for the OGP?

I thought about the mithel route, but I haven't put it to the test

Four dice is huge, but w/V.I he's still in the initiative bid with Whisper, so he's either going to have to predict her like everyone else or move after and be able to b-roll into position but stare down four dice w/unmodified reds.

Seems very risky, since otherwise he's just a tie. Don't think I could replace Backstabber with him.

Against turrets...well you'll get four dice, and so will they (no matter how you maneuver, because turrets are a well thought out rule...).

The named pilots do make a big difference, especially those with 'extra dice' abilites. Backstabber is superb for his points cost against turreted ships.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Agile, unshielded fish.

What do you think of this kind of swarm?

The Black Predators

Black Squad Tie with Predator x 5

Black Squad Tie x 1

99 points

The extra PS won't do much (except against Predator), but you will no longer be restricted by formation flying. But they will go down just as fast as the Academies...