This topic inspired me to post this one, because I have quite the opposite problem: as a GM, I don't use enough Destiny Points, quickly leaving them all in the Dark Side Pool. My group and I are still new to the game with only a couple sessions under our belts, but my players took quickly to the Destiny mechanic, using Light Side Points quite regularly to upgrade their dice pools or spawning narrative elements. As a GM though, I find it hard to use them as regularly. I don't mind using them in combat situations, or when my players decide to do something risky that isn't needed for the story (pick pocketing in a bar on Nar Shaddaa comes to mind), but it's hard for me to use them outside these situations as I fear making a check more difficult can hamper the flow of the game. During an investigation for example, failing some critical checks can leave the group without any clues as to where they should go next.

Am I too soft? Am I wrongly worrying about the flow of the game? Do you have the same reservations as me?

I did at first, but not anymore. In some ways, getting Despair on normal checks is more fun than combat or other already tense situations. Recent game example: the PC's client was complaining about how their droids would only work for an hour before shutting down. Mechanic says "I'll have a look". So they get a Triumph, but failure, so they don't fix the droid, but they do find that somebody has crudely installed a camera in the droid...who could it be...and are they watching right now?

The PC says "I pretend I don't see it, and try to close things up", he's hoping to not alert any operators on the other side of the camera. So I have him roll Deception against Average, but flip a DP just to up the ante...and lo, he gets a success, but Despair. Just for fun I decided to roll on the crit chart for a result (-30) and got a "Head Ringer". You definitely "had to be there", I can't explain the 15 minutes of outright hilarity as various players mimed him getting his lips stuck in the panel, or his head wonked on the panel going "I didn't see a camera, I didn't see a camera..."

It's always worth it, and it doesn't have to be severe...

Am I too soft? Am I wrongly worrying about the flow of the game? Do you have the same reservations as me?

You can always put an evil smile on your face, giggle menacingly, flip one over - and do absolutely nothing with it whatsoever. Mine you, they won't know you don't have something dastardly in mind - but you are the GM, you do what you want!

well, first, there is the problem of making skill checks for critical plot elements. If failing a skill check would hamper your plot progression, don't make the check. Alternatively, make the check but alter what a failure means in these circumstances. For example, you are not simply trying to "access critical information," but rather you are trying to access the information in such a wayway that it makes things easier for you going forward.

If this sort of check has failed, then failure can mean that get the information, but in doing so, you cause yourself more comcomplications that you'll have to deal with.

I've been in this situation.

What I did was actually make some skill checks deliberately easier, knowing that I'd be upgrading them with Destiny Points.

So if the PCs are slicing a computer system, instead of making the difficulty Hard, I might make it Average but upgrade with a Destiny Point.

This kept me from feeling like I was ramping up the difficulty on checks which were already designed to be really challenging, and it helps me keep the Destiny Points flowing back and forth.

well, first, there is the problem of making skill checks for critical plot elements. If failing a skill check would hamper your plot progression, don't make the check. Alternatively, make the check but alter what a failure means in these circumstances. For example, you are not simply trying to "access critical information," but rather you are trying to access the information in such a wayway that it makes things easier for you going forward.

If this sort of check has failed, then failure can mean that get the information, but in doing so, you cause yourself more comcomplications that you'll have to deal with.

This is the hardest habit I had to unlearn from my days under the D6 engine - rolling for every single little thing. "It's raining?" *roll* "You get wet." "Want breakfast?" *roll* "You burn the toast"

But under the FFG engine, I try and let the players do what they want, only really rolling when it's combat or when it really serves the story.

Failing forward is a critical part of the system as a GM, I believe. Every GMs had stories where regardless of how you set up situation, there are one or more keystone points that should both be difficult, and are critical to the plot. The art is setting up the roll so that the players get what they need, but may or may not do it 'safely' or 'well'. Because, (as I have a player to like to prove with his YYYGPP rolls) even the most skilled player can fail a roll.

Thanks a lot for all your answers, it really helps putting me in the right mindset for this quite different system, although I'm used to narrative systems.

Whafrog and Progressions: you are both totally right, I love the Despair mechanic and haven't got to use it yet. I'll leave the difficulty around Easy and Average and instead use Destiny Points to upgrade it, which can lead to funny situations (at least for the GM), and direct the narrative in a certain way even by failure. And it's gonna give the players more Destiny Points to use, so it all balances out in the end.

Desslok: I was sad to see my favorite way of creating tension (rolling randomly without explanations behind the screen) was absent from this system. Using Destiny Points in the same way is a creative way to get the same results. Shiny!
For the checks though, I get that making a lot all the time is not great and I usually don't: I make my players roll only when it's important to the story to know if and how much they fail or succeed at something, and even then it's only once (for example, a Streetwise check represents hours of searching and talking, and countless cantinas visited, in some cases). Going in the other extreme has, I feel, other problems too though. If you almost never roll dice outside of combat, aren't your players sometimes frustrated that the points and talents they've put in their skills has not the same impact as it could have? Why put 3 ranks and buy multiple social talents if 1 rank is enough to do almost everything without rolling?

Awayputurwpn: good point. Particularly in this system, failure doesn't mean nothing is accomplished, just not in the best or most optimal way possible. Maybe it takes a lot of time, maybe they attract some unwanted attention, or maybe they need to bribe someone, where a successful check would mean the same information learned but faster, in a more subtle manner, or free. With that in mind using Destiny Points is just a way to spice the narrative, not to hamper it (trouble is always interesting!).

To the point about using them only when rolling, it's always fun to add complications for players by not rolling. That's one of my favorite uses for DPs.

The party is walking down the street from location A to location B and, GM flips a DP, lo' and behold a squad of Stormtroopers walks around the corner a block ahead.

The party is landing on a planet and, one DP later, they happen to be parked next to a ship that's the same type as one they got into a firefight two sessions ago.

Little quirks like that make for a much more fun and interesting session and serve to give the players DPs back outside of combat and challenges.

Desslok: I was sad to see my favorite way of creating tension (rolling randomly without explanations behind the screen) was absent from this system. Using Destiny Points in the same way is a creative way to get the same results. Shiny!

Who says you can’t roll randomly?!? Use both mechanisms!

To be truly evil, try making a random roll, then muttering under your breath “That’s weird. Okay, whatever.” Then you flip all the black tokens in the pool at once. And don’t say anything else. If anyone asks, you just tell them “Nevermind.”

For the checks though, I get that making a lot all the time is not great and I usually don't: I make my players roll only when it's important to the story to know if and how much they fail or succeed at something, and even then it's only once (for example, a Streetwise check represents hours of searching and talking, and countless cantinas visited, in some cases). Going in the other extreme has, I feel, other problems too though. If you almost never roll dice outside of combat, aren't your players sometimes frustrated that the points and talents they've put in their skills has not the same impact as it could have? Why put 3 ranks and buy multiple social talents if 1 rank is enough to do almost everything without rolling?

I think the point is to avoid rolling unless it’s necessary to the story. That doesn’t have to have anything to do with combat, it could be a social situation where the Wookiee in the group is looking for the refresher, and is trying to decide if the punch bowl is actually an alien toilet.

What? It’s bowl shaped and it’s got a foul-smelling yellow liquid in it, so why ISN’T it an alien toilet?!?

Awayputurwpn: good point. Particularly in this system, failure doesn't mean nothing is accomplished, just not in the best or most optimal way possible. Maybe it takes a lot of time, maybe they attract some unwanted attention, or maybe they need to bribe someone, where a successful check would mean the same information learned but faster, in a more subtle manner, or free. With that in mind using Destiny Points is just a way to spice the narrative, not to hamper it (trouble is always interesting!).

Our most entertaining moments have come at times when we failed to achieve our objective — or we at least failed to achieve it the way we had wanted. Whether that was rolling a Despair or not, I think the point still stands.

For the checks though, I get that making a lot all the time is not great and I usually don't: I make my players roll only when it's important to the story to know if and how much they fail or succeed at something, and even then it's only once (for example, a Streetwise check represents hours of searching and talking, and countless cantinas visited, in some cases). Going in the other extreme has, I feel, other problems too though. If you almost never roll dice outside of combat, aren't your players sometimes frustrated that the points and talents they've put in their skills has not the same impact as it could have? Why put 3 ranks and buy multiple social talents if 1 rank is enough to do almost everything without rolling?

Well, its really about knowing how to strike a balance - which is something that only really comes with experience (GM experience, not XP ). Don't bother with the little things - a hyperspace trip along a well traveled spacelane? No roll. Lifting off from the spaceport? No roll. Trying to find replacement parts for a bog standard blaster? No roll.

But if it serves the story, either by being a dramatic moment, or where a fun/interesting result can be generated, then roll. That sabbac game between players where the stakes are shipboard chores? By all means roll.

Also, on the subject of Destiny points, I sometime use them as a GM the same narrative way as the players. I know as a GM I get to set the scene, but sometimes I need to add something in my favor I didn't set, or narrate something well against chance.

Example 1

The players are crossing a cargo bay when they are surprised by a group of stormtroopers. The group heavy takes first slot and says he's going to take cover. Looking back at the mooks, I realize if everyone takes cover, the encounter will be to easy, so I flip a destiny point and say "the cargo from this section was just loaded, you'd have to go back or forward a range band to find somewhere to take cover."

Example 2

Players discover they have to go into a canyon to access the hidden base. Realizing they didn't bring any climbing gear, they head back to the local small town and head to the general store for rope. I flip a destiny point and "Sorry, we're between shipments. All I've got is this synthline, but it's really slippery."

Ah, ninjaed by Brae

I'll just leave this here...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127849-gm-destiny-point-use/#entry1346743

Braendig and Quicksilver: I didn't think of using the Destiny Points that way, good idea!


Thank you all for your answers, I feel like Destiny Points are gonna be flowing for our next session!