I have recently used the mangler in a proxy build with two defenders and ACT Vader. I was really underwhelmed. Three dice even with a crit is not nearly as good as the 4 with HLC. I guess that should have been obvious.

My hope was that the synergy with the ATC crit would make a bigger difference but did not seem to. Has anyone else trid this? If so what did you think?

Mangler Cannon is better on someone like Ten Nunb (who makes unavoidable crits) or Kath (who causes stress on avoided crits)

Kath

Mangler Cannon

Gunner

Predator-50 Pts

Shoot first with the cannon cause stress (or a crit) and then use gunner to fire with primary after they are stressed.

That's probably the one time I could see trying both a cannon and Gunner.

What particular synergy with ATC were you looking for? I don't see one really.

I guess he aimed for getting a crit from every shot in his squad. Not really a sinergy... more like a consistency.

Well I dunno, two Mangler Delta's with Yorr in the back as support can be a frightful thing.

Mangler Cannon is better on someone like Ten Nunb (who makes unavoidable crits) or Kath (who causes stress on avoided crits)

It should also be pretty good in combination with IG-88B since it deals full damage, has no range restriction, and is relatively inexpensive.

On the topic of expense: I will also just point out, OP, that expecting a 4 point upgrade to be as good as a 7 point upgrade is somewhat illogical. The Mangler is a different beast for a different job.

I've found it to be quite good on a YT-2400 with the Outrider title and a mercenary co-pilot. Prefer it to the HLC seeing as it doesn't leave the ship toothless at range 1.

It will be best On the scyk and the outrider IMO

My hope was that the synergy with the ATC crit

Can't see the synergy. Synergy's being greater than the sum of your parts. How do the crits synergise?

It will be best On the scyk and the outrider IMO

it has some merit on ig-88 too, if you use the gunner version. Allows its gunner too always be useful and keeps the ship cheaper. Hlc will probably be the prefered option for 2 aggressor lists though.

The Mangler Cannon? A special design we constructed for the Outrider. Never sold one since.

It makes Ten Numb slightly useable, key word slightly. He's still silly expensive at 35 points with it. I'd probably just run him with VI to push him up to PS 10. Still 36 points is a lot... I'd still rather run Keyan with a few upgrades for the points.

I think the Mangler will be better on Leebo w/ title or the OSF w/ title. Those two have a harder time trying to keep higher PS pilots out of the range 1 bubble.

I don't know if its worth the points on a Defender. 4 points to just turn a crit seems pricey. Not even sure if you'd even want to use it at range 1 and lose a die. I'd probably rather just spend the 3 extra points and fit a HLC. I'm already paying a ton of points for a Defender, what's 3 more?

It makes Ten Numb slightly useable, key word slightly.

If you are facing the Imperium, everybody and his uncle has an evade token, if you are a traitor and fight the Rebels, everybody has shields. And Ten Numb has a PS of 8, so will likely shoot first. You can pair him with Wes, but that is a lot of points for a one-trick-pony.

It makes Ten Numb slightly useable, key word slightly.

If you are facing the Imperium, everybody and his uncle has an evade token, if you are a traitor and fight the Rebels, everybody has shields. And Ten Numb has a PS of 8, so will likely shoot first. You can pair him with Wes, but that is a lot of points for a one-trick-pony.

An evade token counts as an evade result on the dice, so it wouldn't be able to cancel out the crit from Ten

I'm going to put it on a shuttle and give merc. Co pilot a go. Cheaper (or the same) as a HLC and double crits at range 3 could be nice. Add in Vader for more stupidity and you could ruin someones day.

Could be fun, and isn't that the point?

Mangler is the only true damage cannon other than the HLC
Yes, it isn't as damaging, but it's also half the cost.

Anything that has Cannon synergy should consider it.
Anything with Crit synergy is incredibly happy.

I don't know if its worth the points on a Defender. 4 points to just turn a crit seems pricey. Not even sure if you'd even want to use it at range 1 and lose a die. I'd probably rather just spend the 3 extra points and fit a HLC. I'm already paying a ton of points for a Defender, what's 3 more?

I think the biggest thing it does for Defenders is to open up some options in a Jonus Brothers list. Taking the base of just Jonus + 2 Deltas + Mangler Cannons, you've now got 10 points to sprinkle around. That's enough to upgrade one of the Defenders to Brath and to put a point EPT on him.

In general, I think Defenders are paying for denying their opponent a green die at range three. If you compare the cost to a combination of Mercenary Copilot (2pts.) with less restrictions and Outmaneuver (3pts.) with different restrictions, then the 4 points you spend are a good value to get those capabilities in a single upgrade.

Another way to look at it is a possibly better version of marksmanship for 1 point more.

Doesn't waste an action, doesn't use up your ept slot, and turning a hit to a crit is more reliable than a focus to a crit.

I agree that if you can afford it, HLC is the way to go, but mangler can have it's uses.

Instead of having two ships with HLC, give the higher PS HLC and the other mangler. The HLC shot will soften up the target for the mangler to likely get a crit through. Then you still have 3 extra points to play with now for your squad.

Another way to look at it is a possibly better version of marksmanship for 1 point more.

Doesn't waste an action, doesn't use up your ept slot, and turning a hit to a crit is more reliable than a focus to a crit.

I agree that if you can afford it, HLC is the way to go, but mangler can have it's uses.

Instead of having two ships with HLC, give the higher PS HLC and the other mangler. The HLC shot will soften up the target for the mangler to likely get a crit through. Then you still have 3 extra points to play with now for your squad.

Something like Jonas with determination, vessery with VI and HLC and a delta with mangler could work well.

Another way to look at it is a possibly better version of marksmanship for 1 point more.

Doesn't waste an action, doesn't use up your ept slot, and turning a hit to a crit is more reliable than a focus to a crit.

I agree that if you can afford it, HLC is the way to go, but mangler can have it's uses.

Instead of having two ships with HLC, give the higher PS HLC and the other mangler. The HLC shot will soften up the target for the mangler to likely get a crit through. Then you still have 3 extra points to play with now for your squad.

Something like Jonas with determination, vessery with VI and HLC and a delta with mangler could work well.

Jonus' ability seems to work against Vessery's. I guess if you are having Vessery flank and not worry about staying in range of Jonus and have Jonus taking a target lock every round it could work out. It just seems like Jonus is a little expensive to only be boosting a single 3 dice attack each round.

Sooner or later your going to have to break formation thats when vessery's ability comes in, until then you go focus for defence and enjoy the jonas re-rolls.

Sooner or later your going to have to break formation thats when vessery's ability comes in, until then you go focus for defence and enjoy the jonas re-rolls.

I can see that. It also would make sense to have the Mangler on the Delta since you'd be making more of an effort to keep him in range of Jonus. Giving up a die at range one might make sense against a lot of targets if you are able to benefit from the reroll from Jonus. Against any of the fatties I think I'd rather throw three dice with a reroll and a focus than I would 4 dice with just a focus or target lock. Changing a crit to a hit is just a nice little bonus in that case.

you could swap vessory for brath if you drop determination (I'm pretty sure its a 2 pt difference) and obviously drop vi. That would give you a pretty solid strike while in formation, though once jonus is gone the list kinda falls apart synergy wise.

so perhaps you should think in a different direction,

jonus (I can't remember his point cost)

brath- vi, hlc - 45( again, not 100% on total. At work)

ogp- mangler cannon, EU, fcs - 31

I think this will fit and maybe have a point for determination, while offering a bit more board control.

second idea would be fit fleet officer instead of fcs

Is the Mangler Canon cannon?

Or is the Mangler Cannon canon?

...

Either way

It was made for Scyks and Aggressors ... and for Rebels with doughnutaphobia.

Imperials stay with Ion and Heavy Laser Cannons.