If the Necromancer enthrals a spirit on a space that does not require cards to be drawn (i.e. the Ghost at the City) can he still encounter the space, or would his turn end?
I know if he doesn't attack spirits, he can't pick up objects, etc and I presume he can't encounter the space, but I reckon he can do so if he enthrals, but just want to make sure.
Enthralling isn't evading or defeating, so I believe your turn would end.
The use of enthrall directly follows the choice of not attacking the Spirit(s), so it is resolved the same way as the Minstrel's ability not to be attacked by Animals and Dragons.
As Artaterxes points out, the only options to deal with Enemies are evading or defeating them, and not attacking isn't equivalent to any of the two. Your turn does not end though, the only drawback is that you can't pick up Objects and Followers. You must still visit any Strangers and Places, or encounter the space if it is a "non-draw card space" (e.g. Ghost on the Chapel).
This was a good question that made me think about this character once again. I believe we may have played it wrong sometimes.
Warlock, could you clarify something for me please. I had always assumed your turn would end. I always thought if you don't defeat or evade your enemy, you end your turn. I thought any effect that causes you to "end your turn" translates to "stop your encounter sequence." (And "missing a turn" would mean the same, unless you have no cards remaining, in which case you miss your next turn instead.)
So this is the encounter sequence (roughly, some exceptions...)
#0: spells
#1: events, s/c enemies
#2: strength enemies
#3: craft enemies
#4: strangers
#5: objects, followers
#6: places
#7: space instructions
So suppose you got defeated by a spirit... Then your turn would end, right? You'd stop the sequence and couldn't go on to get strangers, objects, etc. Same thing if you enthral a spirit?
Edited by ArtaterxesThe use of enthrall directly follows the choice of not attacking the Spirit(s), so it is resolved the same way as the Minstrel's ability not to be attacked by Animals and Dragons.
As Artaterxes points out, the only options to deal with Enemies are evading or defeating them, and not attacking isn't equivalent to any of the two. Your turn does not end though, the only drawback is that you can't pick up Objects and Followers. You must still visit any Strangers and Places, or encounter the space if it is a "non-draw card space" (e.g. Ghost on the Chapel).
This was a good question that made me think about this character once again. I believe we may have played it wrong sometimes.
I knew that the Minstrel couldn't take objects if he does not attack animals, and I assume the same applies to the Necromancer concerning spirits.
But I've not found anything to say what would happen if the Minstrel succeeds in charming an animal.
At the risk of sounding like a plonker, where does it say that the Minstrel can still encounter strangers and places but not objects or followers?
At the risk of sounding like a plonker, where does it say that the Minstrel can still encounter strangers and places but not objects or followers?
Objects and Followers can be encountered for what it matters, but they cannot be taken if all Enemies on the space have not been either killed or evaded. They are they only type of Adventure card with that instruction: check rulebook page 6-7. However, I was imprecise in my previous statement, as your other question brought to my own attention:
But I've not found anything to say what would happen if the Minstrel succeeds in charming an animal.
If the Animal is charmed successfully, that Enemy is not on the space anymore because you take it as a Follower, so any other cards can be encountered and Objects/Followers taken.
When the Necromancer enthralls a Spirit he's always successful and like the charmed Animal the Enemy is removed from the space, therefore all remaining cards are encountered as normal.
I didn't play it wrong sometimes as I thought.
Warlock, could you clarify something for me please. I had always assumed your turn would end. I always thought if you don't defeat or evade your enemy, you end your turn. I thought any effect that causes you to "end your turn" translates to "stop your encounter sequence." (And "missing a turn" would mean the same, unless you have no cards remaining, in which case you miss your next turn instead.)
So this is the encounter sequence (roughly, some exceptions...)
#0: spells
#1: events, s/c enemies
#2: strength enemies
#3: craft enemies
#4: strangers
#5: objects, followers
#6: places
#7: space instructions
So suppose you got defeated by a spirit... Then your turn would end, right? You'd stop the sequence and couldn't go on to get strangers, objects, etc. Same thing if you enthral a spirit?
Being defeated during an attack ends the turn because there's a rule saying so (check paragraph "Compare Attack Scores" for Battle vs. Creatures).
But if you don't attack (or are not attacked) because of a special ability your turn doesn't end, but you continue your encounters. The only drawback, as stated before, is that you cannot take Objects and Followers if there are any Enemies still on the space.
I disagree Warlock that you continue the encounter sequence when doing any other action regarding Enemies that does not include either Killing or Evading them. This is clearly stated in the FAQ 1.1 Pg.1 Encounter Sequence Steps 4-6.
Strangers, gold, followers, objects, places and non-draw space instructions can only be encountered should you either Kill or Defeat enemies. Charming, enthralling, dominating, etc. do not qualify as either killing or evading. Choosing to not attack an enemy, such as the Minstrel with animals, Necro with spirits and Ogre Chieftain with monsters does not count as evading, so the turn ends as stated by the FAQ. Until a new FAQ comes out that changes this, it is rather cut and dry by how it is worded.
I agree that the FAQ states it, but I do not believe for one second that it is correct. If you charm or enthral an Animal or Spirit, you have removed the threat from the space and you have bypassed the rule of having to defeat or evade an Enemy. I do however agree that an unsuccessful charming of an Animal would end your turn!
So according to the FAQ, the encounter sequence ends unless the Enemy is "killed" or "evaded." And under the current wording, a successful or unsuccessful charming, enthralling, dominating, etc. does not count as either "killing" or "evading" and so the turn would end (i.e. encounter sequence would stop).
And we're saying it makes more sense for the FAQ to say,
"If no Enemies remain on the space except those that were evaded, continue to the next step; otherwise, your turn ends,"
even though it doesn't say that at the moment.
I disagree Warlock that you continue the encounter sequence when doing any other action regarding Enemies that does not include either Killing or Evading them. This is clearly stated in the FAQ 1.1 Pg.1 Encounter Sequence Steps 4-6.
Strangers, gold, followers, objects, places and non-draw space instructions can only be encountered should you either Kill or Defeat enemies. Charming, enthralling, dominating, etc. do not qualify as either killing or evading. Choosing to not attack an enemy, such as the Minstrel with animals, Necro with spirits and Ogre Chieftain with monsters does not count as evading, so the turn ends as stated by the FAQ. Until a new FAQ comes out that changes this, it is rather cut and dry by how it is worded.
Mmh, it's the first time in years that I've forced myself to read that Encounter Sequence again. It looked like it was put down well, but since they apparently forgot abilities such as the ones under discussion, it is not put down well.
Or you can see it the other way around: special abilities that make the Enemy disappear from the space (charming, enthralling, dominating and such) simply make you skip a step of the Encounter Sequence because the Enemy is not on the space anymore! Come on, do you really think it's not meant to be like that? Special abilities can be used before the Encounter Sequence begins, as they have no timing inside it.
On the other hand, the current Encounter Sequence forces the turn to end in case the Enemies remain on the space but are not attacked, so I stand corrected on that matter.
Edited by The_Warlock
The answer is to play RoboRally instead!
If you remove an Enemy from a space, you are in effect treating it as though you defeated it, because it is no longer on the space...
If you remove an Enemy from a space, you are in effect treating it as though you defeated it, because it is no longer on the space...
Makes sense. If its not on the space its been defeated- dealt with.
If you remove an Enemy from a space, you are in effect treating it as though you defeated it, because it is no longer on the space...
Makes sense. If its not on the space its been defeated- dealt with.
I don't know why you would need to apply the word "defeated" to an Enemy removed from the space. If it is not on the space anymore, you would just skip the instructions about him in the Encounter Sequence. You don't need to have "defeated" him if he's not there.
I think most players see the Encounter Sequence as a close sequence of operations to do; as soon as you start rom step 1 (follow instructions on the space if it is a draw card space), then the situation is frozen and nothing can be done. However, once you see the cards on the space, it's possible to apply abilities that remove any of them and removed cards are not on the space and should not be considered in resolving the applicable step in the Sequence.
Edited by The_WarlockOk, so we all agree that if an Enemy is REMOVED from a space, then a player can continue his turn and encounter any other cards on that space - enthralling, charming, Staff of Mastery, etc.
If you remove an Enemy from a space, you are in effect treating it as though you defeated it, because it is no longer on the space...
Makes sense. If its not on the space its been defeated- dealt with.
I don't know why you would need to apply the word "defeated" to an Enemy removed from the space. If it is not on the space anymore, you would just skip the instructions about him in the Encounter Sequence. You don't need to have "defeated" him if he's not there.
I think most players see the Encounter Sequence as a close sequence of operations to do; as soon as you start rom step 1 (follow instructions on the space if it is a draw card space), then the situation is frozen and nothing can be done. However, once you see the cards on the space, it's possible to apply abilities that remove any of them and removed cards are not on the space and should not be considered in resolving the applicable step in the Sequence.
I just said that in way to try and "explain" the reasoning, of course if a Enemy is removed from the space its not "defeated" but instead not there to be considered "defeated".
I suppose the way its worded in the rules is for cards like the Lich that have a number of lives so you can "defeat" them and still have it in the same space. FFG must of made the rule in case they wanted more Enemy like the Lich, I cant remember if there are any more just like the Lich? most spells and effects make the defeat or loss a standoff.